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Communicating Persuasively, Email or Face-to-Face?

Jeremy Dean writes "Our intuitive understanding is that face-to-face communication is the most persuasive. In reality, of course, it's not always possible to meet in person, so email wins out. How, then, do people react to persuasion attempts over email? Persuasion research has uncovered fascinating effects: that men seem more responsive to email because it bypasses their competitive tendencies (Guadagno & Cialdini, 2002). Women, however, may respond better in face-to-face encounters because they are more 'relationship-minded'. But is this finding just a gender stereotype?"

41 of 165 comments (clear)

  1. Email has failed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful


    ask the Airline industry, we invent all these ways to communicate over vast distances, VOIP, Telephone, IM, Email etc etc and people are flying to meet each other more than ever

    1. Re:Email has failed by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Email has failed"

      Speak for yourself buddy. Email and IM are enormous boons to keeping in contact and making friends who share common interests across the world, what is slashdot if not a giant email discussion list in the form of a bulletin board?

      The real problem I believe is that email isn't personal enough and good videocamera's integrated into computers for "email" the next big thing is vloging or "vlogging" if someone finally made a workable video phone with optional image broadcast with a decent display and ratio adjuster, that just worked everywhere. It would sell, believe you me.

    2. Re:Email has failed by vertinox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Email has failed only if you use it for marketing or as a persuasion tool. As for communicating information it works fairly well.

      However, perhaps we should be looking at these other problem... Persuasion.

      Personally, I'll have none of it and I don't understand businesses that get talked into deals with cold call sales vendors. (Cold call in the industry means they call you first rather than the customer calling the sales department)

      First of all, if you are running a business you should not have to persuade your employees, coworkers, or higher ups. Persuading your employees to comply shouldn't be that hard of a task and if they don't then it isn't because you aren't a good persuader but rather perhaps they are the wrong employee for the job (or perhaps you are asking them to do something they simply can't do or isn't actually their job in the first place).

      However, persuading higher ups and coworkers isn't your job either. If you have to do a song and dance with a power point presentation every time to the CEO every time you need to get something approved to do your basic job functions then perhaps your employers don't trust you or they just don't care well enough to put into place a system into which you can perform your job independently but with oversight. Of course thats more of a management issue...

      As far as getting customers, emailing as a form of communication is of course spam unless they contact you first via email for information. Cold calling is of course the same thing as telemarketing...

      Doing both may actually loose customers and make a good deal of people angry at you.

      As far as people traveling for that "big sales" meeting... I just never understood.

      If you are a company in need of a product... Why do you need someone persuading you to buy theirs over someone else. Their art of persuasion doesn't make their actual product or services any better and in fact if your company buys products based on these sales meetings perhaps someone should look at if the vendors are giving out benefits of persuasion to the managers who are authorized to spend said money.

      In fact, people with authorization to buy products or services should be hired on the sole fact they are not easily persuaded and do not take bribes from vendors. They should be the ones cold calling the vendors and then asking for plain cold information in emails and then not respond to the vendors relentless voice mails and not wasting company money going to meetings with countless vendors when they already know what product/service the company should buy.

      Anything else is just hurting the buying company's bottom line, but I suppose that is why I don't work in marketing.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    3. Re:Email has failed by happyemoticon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree that I would rather work in a company where no persuasion had to occur - where the self-evident value of the goods and services we sold was enough to establish a consumer base and a revenue stream. However, if you're pioneering anything, you're going to need to do some persuading, trust me.

      Back around when the dot com bubble burst, nobody knew what SSL VPN was. There was no market. Then, a few companies figured out that it would be valuable for Sammy in Sales to be able to access internal company documents from outside the company without having to know how to SSH in and using only a web browser. But these companies had to go out to big companies and try, laboriously, to install in people the knowledge that this would be valuable.

      Now, today, most people in the IT/Security space could give you a minute-long yarn on why SSL VPN gateways are cool, from sales to execs to engineers. But back then, the idea didn't exist in the industry gestalt. Talk to a technical person, and they'd scoff and say that SSH was the best way to go and any dummy could set it up. And then you talk to a non-technical sales/marketing person, and of course that's hard because any time you try to teach a non-technical person a new technical concept it's like trying to teach a chimpanzee how to use a telephone. And in most cases, it's a chimp who's in a hurry, too.

      There are very few people who will just grok a new idea if you pitch it to them and are open-minded enough to see why it could be valuable. And of course you want to find these people, because to them, the value of your technology IS self-evident. But to get to these people, you have to go through dozens or hundreds of technocrats and bureaucrats - and it's fortunate in the end that you did, because eventually, these people will start babbling in greater and greater numbers, and eventually the business will come to you and people will know what you do. But like I said, it takes time and work.

    4. Re:Email has failed by anothy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      i think you've totally misunderstood what "persuasion" is about. or rather you've taken some particular degenerate form as all there is.

      what you've described is basically bribery or coercion. sure, those happen, and are much more prevalent in some industries than others. i've worked in environments where "Sales" consisted mostly of explaining the benefits of your product, helping whoever you're talking to understand them, why it's a better choice than your competitors' products, and why they should trust you or your company. i've also worked in environments where "Sales" was coke and hookers. i'll agree whole-heartedly that the later is inappropriate and almost never (occasionally by chance) leads to the optimal decisions being made. but the former is what's more commonly meant by "persuasion" in a business context.
      the company i work in now, we've got sales guys who travel the world visiting customers. we're mostly a service bureau; letting the customer know that they have our attention and that we're willing to go out of our way to make them happy is directly related to (which is not to say it's the same thing as) actually doing the job. we explain our service and our platform, talk about experiences others have had comparing our products to our competitors' products, and - most importantly - answer whatever questions they have in real time. we seek to persuade them by demonstrating our excellence, not to coerce them. the closest we ever come to the "coke and hookers" world here is taking people to dinner once in a while and maybe a box of chocolates when something significant happens. but even that's not in the spirit of bribery; we actually intend to have a genuine relationship with our customers, and this is just part of doing so.

      (incidentally, as someone well outside the sales world, it's nice to know that i'm working for a company that feels it can compete based on its merits rather than bribery. it makes me feel better about the work i put in to building our products and services.)

      persuasion is important for making decisions. you say things like you'll "have none of it", but that's just stupid. you're never convinced by a technical argument? that's persuasion. you never decide you trust one party over another, even if the other looks better on paper? that's generally a result of persuasion, and that's even an emotional response rather than a factual. these are clearly valid parts of business (or any decision making process). it's true that often the people making decisions don't have the skills or knowledge to make them effectively, but that's another issue. people who can't be persuaded are the most infuriating people to work with, and it's almost always a sign of (some combination of) arrogance, ignorance, stupidity, or pride. all those traits diminish your value to most organizations.

      i think your internal view is even more disturbing, actually. you say that it's not a manager's job to persuade their employees to do something, but i find work environments where it is to be the most productive. i don't do what my boss tells me "because he said so" (or if i do, it's only long enough to find another job), and i don't expect people who work for me to, either. i try hard to show people who work for me that what they're being asked to do is actually the right thing to be doing. now, there is of course a balancing act here: it's an inappropriate use of everyone's time to try to get all your engineers to know the details of what marketing's doing, or to get the sales people to understand what all the technical limitations are. but it's very useful for the techs to know what marketing's trying to do and how they fit in with that, and for the sales guys to know why they can't always promise the moon.
      similarly, i expect my employees to ask questions if something doesn't seem right and to let me know if they have any particular insights into things. and i expect the same treatment from my management. we are not cogs in a machine, but are independent, intelligent, creative people. i don't hire any other kind.

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
    5. Re:Email has failed by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      First of all, if you are running a business you should not have to persuade your employees, coworkers, or higher ups. Persuading your employees to comply shouldn't be that hard of a task and if they don't then it isn't because you aren't a good persuader but rather perhaps they are the wrong employee for the job (or perhaps you are asking them to do something they simply can't do or isn't actually their job in the first place).

      Management by decree is a great way to ensure that you lose good talent. If you are having trouble getting them to comply, it is possible that there's a problem with the employee. But it's more likely that they need to be brought "on board" -- full participation. That is what the persuasion is for. All the staff at my company already have their hands full. If management needs someone to do something additional, then the employees must be persuaded that the new project is more important than the work they have pending. Or they need to be peruaded to work some additional hours.

      As for work that "isn't actually their job in the first place," that's a valid argument only in companies with well-defined roles (typically large ones). In small and mid-sized business, many people wear many hats.

      However, persuading higher ups and coworkers isn't your job either. If you have to do a song and dance with a power point presentation every time to the CEO every time you need to get something approved to do your basic job functions then perhaps your employers don't trust you or they just don't care well enough to put into place a system into which you can perform your job independently but with oversight. Of course thats more of a management issue...

      Also way off base. A manager is responsible for what goes on in their department; what happens when their boss asks why X was implemented at a cost of $Y? This is one reason why you need to persuade your manager of what is necessary. Another reason they need to be persuaded is that they are balancing a lot more in the decision-making process than you probably realize. They may be privy to information you are not. They may have been given a directive that runs counter to your proposal.

      In fact, people with authorization to buy products or services should be hired on the sole fact they are not easily persuaded and do not take bribes from vendors.

      What do you mean by 'bribes'? That's a harsh word for a business lunch, or a couple drinks in the evening. Kickbacks are a problem, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

      They should be the ones cold calling the vendors and then asking for plain cold information in emails and then not respond to the vendors relentless voice mails and not wasting company money going to meetings with countless vendors when they already know what product/service the company should buy.

      You don't do a lot of purchasing, do you? How do you think you get vendors to offer you their absolute best terms? How do you think you build a relationship with a vendor so that when you need a part delivered *right now* they do it with a smile and at no charge? What about when you need to negotiate looser payment terms? Or when a part dies a month after warranty expiration, and you want to get a free replacement anyway?

      I used to think that purchasing etc should be a matter of pure numbers, as you seem to think. But as the years have gone by, I've discovered that all those non-quotables really pay off when push comes to shove, and it's the personal relationships that drive them.

      The next time you have a complaint about shoddy service (and we all have them) maybe you should think about building a relationship with a supplier so that *you* matter to them?
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  2. Depends on the recipient by BadERA · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The more technologyically-friendly one is, the easier it is to persuade them by email. The more details-oriented one is, the easier it is to persuade them by email. The more "frat boy and golf games" on is, the harder it is, typically, to persuade them over email.

    --
    I am, therefore you think.
    1. Re:Depends on the recipient by podperson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The more technologyically-friendly one is, the easier it is to persuade them by email. The more details-oriented one is, the easier it is to persuade them by email. The more "frat boy and golf games" on is, the harder it is, typically, to persuade them over email.

      You need to read TFA.

      The point you're making is simply wrong -- the study actually showed no such relationship between technology usage and persuadability via email. On average (according to the studies), persuasion via email works about as well as face-to-face (for men) but not women if the women haven't met. The studies didn't cover cross-sex interactions.

      You can ignore the results, assume they're wrong, or make use of the information constructively (e.g. by making an effort to contact a woman more directly to establish a working relationship before trying to influence her via email).

      Another implication of the work is that you're more likely to persuade a man via email if you have an adversarial relationship with him. Again, this does not gel with your frat boy golf games assumptions.

  3. Enough PC Bullshit Please by MarkPNeyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can't we do science without worrying about whether we're hurting someone's feelings? This is just getting ridiculous.

    --

    My blog
    1. Re:Enough PC Bullshit Please by MarkPNeyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If that's so, ask the question 'is this science valid,' not 'is this a stereotype?'

      --

      My blog
  4. hmmm... another analysis of email... by 3seas · · Score: 2, Informative

    Many years ago the game industry did some research on internet based communications. For online gaming purposes.
    Overall they found that communication can more easily degenerate into flames over the internet than into being productive as opposed to face to face communication.

    Ultimately each mode of communication has its upside and down side and side effects.

  5. Eh, email sucks by hsmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When I am writing something personal, I always end up over analyzing everything I write. I sit, rewrite, write it again, delete it all write again and it just seems to never end so it sounds "perfect."

    At least for my personal life I like face to face because I am forced to be more "genuine" and say what pops into my head.

  6. you can't persuade using email ..... by petes_PoV · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ..... all yo can do is plead!
    A lot of the art of persuasion requires the persuader to apply some form of pressure (usually non-physical) onto their intended victim. This makes the victim cave-in to remove the pressure. Email just doesn't have that kind of "presence" (see todays Dilbert) it's just too easy to ignore it.

    The best you can do is have an overwhelming reason why your request must be complied with - and to CC the email to your victim's boss.

    On the other side, email is a great leveller. People who would not normally speak up for themselves can be quite eloquent and demonstrate sharp insights when they have time to compose their messsage, and aren't shot-down/cut-out by people with louder voices or fewer social qualms

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  7. Er, phone? by thewils · · Score: 2, Informative

    I know it's old fashioned tech, but it seems to work OK. As a slashpoll this article has remarkably few options.

    --
    Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
    1. Re:Er, phone? by 26199 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dislike calling coworkers. Partly because it requires them to drop what they're doing, which seems a bit rude. Fortunately where I work I can usually just wander over and talk to people.

      Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, email is for anything with >1 day deadline, face to face is for anything urgent or unexpected. (i.e. asking for a favour).

    2. Re:Er, phone? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dislike calling coworkers. Partly because it requires them to drop what they're doing, which seems a bit rude. Fortunately where I work I can usually just wander over and talk to people.

      I'm constantly interrupted at the office, which gets in the way of handling my work. I much prefer when people call, as I can let the voicemail take it and address their question(s) when I have time -- I normally set aside an hour or so in the afternoon. Email is even better, since I check it frequently.

      As for people walking over, I have no choice but to be rude to weed out the non-urgent requests. "I'm busy -- is this urgent?" If there is hesitation, or if they dodge the question, I know it's not urgent and I can schedule them for later.

      At any rate, walking over to their workspace is worse than calling them. You are effectively demanding their full attention, and the niceties involved in face-to-face waste much more time than a phone call.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  8. Face to Face by rwwyatt · · Score: 2, Informative

    Since I am an avid Slashdot reader, I haven't ventured out of the basement for many years.

    I have learned how to write a persuasive email, and I usually follow it up with a phone call as well.

  9. Just try being a telecommuting director some time by unfortunateson · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I telecommute to a company six hundred miles away, and persuasion by email is impossible.

    I send proposal after proposal, request for comment after request, but most of my coworkers -- which are located in the same facility -- see non-customer emails as the lowest priorities, and consider them pretty much ignorable.

    My boss (non pointy haired, but not much better) included.

    And I'm a pretty persuasive writer (maybe not this message).
    But if it doesn't get read, it doesn't get responded to.

    So at least once a month, I have to commute to what has become my least favorite airport in the US, just to get a face-to-face decision or committment.

    --
    Design for Use, not Construction!
  10. Spam by RockMFR · · Score: 2, Funny

    If a chick came up to me in real life and said, "HEY BABY CUM CHECK OUT MY WEBCAM," I'd definitely be more persuaded. However, I don't think anybody could convince me that I need to enlarge 4 to 6 cm. My penis is just fine right now.

  11. Medium has to fit the message! by redelm · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Marshall McLuan said [of TV]: "The Medium is the Message." That is an atstute observation, but turn it around and it really says the medium is part of the message.

    Media have characteristics. Messages have characteristics. It is best they work in harmony.

    For a concrete example, I usually avoid communicating a complex controversial idea verbally. It's too confrontational and recepients may miss key points or react too early and get themselves locking into an unnecessarily contrary position. Beter they read and react in private, then calm down before replying.

    In person is very good for using body language when sincerity or other emotions are important components of the message. Phone is not quite as good, but often a very workable intermediate.

    But I certainly don't consider in-person to be any sort of "gold standard" in communications. Too many different messages.

    1. Re:Medium has to fit the message! by petes_PoV · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I usually avoid communicating a complex controversial idea verbally

      Actually I do the opposite. The reason is that people's expressions are the most reliable indicator of whether they understand and/or like what they are hearing. If you talk through a complex issue, it's much easier to see where they are getting hung up. You can then spend more time talking about the parts your audience misunderstands or disagrees with.

      Email is too slow for this kind of interaction and phones just don't give you the full body language feedback.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  12. Learned early and from my mother... by bifodus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...that you can't communicate effectively unless you can get an entire point across without interruption. If I need to actually persuade someone, nothing makes more sense than email. With verbal communication, the listener can butt-in whenever they feel like it, and do many things to ultimately conceal my point.

  13. I'd think by ucblockhead · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It'd depend more on the person trying to do the persuading. Who hasn't met someone who in person has great charisma but writes emails like "so dude u shd totally do it it rocks!!!!" Who hasn't met someone who in person fumbles around with speech full of "ums" and "uhs", but writes clear, concise and persuasive emails?

    --
    The cake is a pie
  14. Perhaps another interesting question applicable... by electrosoccertux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What do you do if you suck at persuasion face to face? Or simply talking, for that matter? When I write an email I'm able to think about what I say before I say it and rearrange things after the fact if it comes out wrong. Can't do that in conversation, you have to get it right the first time, and know exactly where you're going and how you're going to get there before you start. Been trying for years, but simply can't. What then? In my opinion a good email would be better than a bad face to face impression.

  15. Email is permanent, conversations evaporate by tinrobot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Face to face time is certainly important, but I'm always amazed at how differently people remember conversations, and how quickly people forget key parts of those conversations. Without some sort of record, it's hard to pin people down on what actually transpired. Email is less personal, but at least you have a written record.

    For important things, you always have to follow up the conversation with an email just to keep things straight. (unless you're in politics, then you should never use email so you won't get caught in your lies)

  16. Re:Perhaps another interesting question applicable by BadERA · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hear ya there, and used to feel like I was in the same boat. Practice makes perfect though -- the more f2f time you get, the more refined your skills become.

    --
    I am, therefore you think.
  17. As a geek who moved into sales & consultancy by xtal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it's face/face communication that wins almost every time.

    Sales pitches and closing a deal is easiest in person. Next on the phone. Almost never via email exclusively - but does happen.

    When you're trying to sell something, be it an idea or a product, most of the time the person you're selling the idea or concept to could get something that will work from anyone. What you're selling is confidence that you will be able to deliver, implement, whatever. It's much easier to communicate genuine confidence in skills, product or ability with other cues besides words - be it voice inflection, posture, facial expression, etc.

    No rocket science here.

    --
    ..don't panic
  18. Re:Nothing Ever Happens Over Email. by AusIV · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Interesting. I'm a college student and do some free-lance web design for grad students with my extra time. On two different projects, I've been introduced to my client by e-mail, discussed what they need the site to do, negotiated a price, delivered the finished product all by e-mail. In one case, I picked up the check in person - meeting my client for the first time. In the other case the client sent a check through campus mail and I never met them in person.

  19. Re:Perhaps another interesting question applicable by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Mod this guy waaaay up... the key to getting better working with people is NOT to hide behind a computer. If persuasion is your goal, the guy going face-to-face will always beat out the guy exclusively using email. That is why the world still has salesmen.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  20. Re:Perhaps another interesting question applicable by timeOday · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I think you have a point about writing being better thought out. The problem is, some people simply don't work that way. I know a couple guys at work to whom I just don't bother writing detailed emails, because every time I've tried, it's obvious they simply don't read them, no matter how important they are and how well I craft the language.

    Similarly, I used to wonder why people travel to expensive training courses when you can get all the same information from a book - which is usually better organized and from a more authoritative source, anyways. But I've realized, many people simply do not, and will not, sit down and master the information in a book to save their lives. Even successful people. You have to sit them in a room with minimal distractions and engage them face to face.

  21. Most Effective: USE ALL CAPS WITH EXCLAMATIONS!!!! by Cruxus · · Score: 5, Funny

    The hierarchy of effective communication goes something like this:

    1. African drums
    2. Smoke signals
    3. Cell phone with bad reception
    4. Face-to-face communication
    5. Instant messaging ;)
    6. E-mail
    7. E-MAIL WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS LIKE THIS WITH LOTS AND LOTS OF EXCLAMATION POINTS FOR ADDED EXTRA EMPHASIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    --
    On vit, on code et puis on meurt.
  22. Re:Just try being a telecommuting director some ti by redelm · · Score: 2, Interesting
    My sympathies. But I'd say your problem stems mostly from a lack-of-attention [ignorability] more than unpersuasiveness. Your colleagues ignore your emails, yet you don't ignore theirs. The telecommuter is often a second-class corporate citizen. Especially since the boss doesn't see any need to make adjustments.

    The real thing is you are probably asking people for things that will cost them and not give back much except to the corporation via your projects. They're busy, so will ignore you if they can. But it's amazing what you can accomplish if you let others take the credit for it.

  23. Re:Just try being a telecommuting director some ti by vertinox · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So at least once a month, I have to commute to what has become my least favorite airport in the US, just to get a face-to-face decision or committment.

    Like I said in a post above, if you find yourself having to persuade management constantly to make decisions in order to do your job, then it is usually a management problem. Usually they have given you responsibility without authority to act on those responsibilities (usually your management has the reverse in those instances... authority without responsibility) so you can't work independently without having to do a powerpoint presentation for every task.

    Usually, this may stem from management not trusting you or their apathy towards what you do outweighs the effort to put in a system in place to have some sort of oversight. And if they aren't responding to your emails then chances are they are just are too apathetic towards what you do which is not the fault of email, but rather management....

    Which ironically the only way to resolve is to persuade them to be less so.

    I could be horribly wrong about your situation in particular, but I wouldn't blame email as the core problem.

    --
    "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
    -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  24. Re:Nothing Ever Happens Over Email. by venomkid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't mean to disparage what you're doing. I'm a freelancer myself and I love to see people going for it on their own, so good on you and I wish you continued success. But keep in mind you're doing web work for grad students. That's pretty different from doing development for a large corporation, law firm, nonprofit, or otherwise churning business entity.

    I may be dealing with a generation gap in a sense - most of the people I provide services to are a good bit older than I am. But even if they do use email all the time, have blackberries/treos, etc. they still want face-time or at least phone time to initiate most things, especially if it's large scale. Sometimes small projects get done over email, but it's almost always repeat or add-on work. This might be different if I was working for a person who grew up with or puts more clout in the technology.

    --
    vk.
  25. Show us your t... by SpinyNorman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A man might be more easily persueded by another man over e-mail, but nothing can beat the viscerally persuasive power of a woman with a low cut top and short skirt.

  26. Use Both by tom's+a-cold · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I use email for anything where you need a document trail, and for communications that can lead to a resolution in one or two rounds of messages. I use phone calls, IM, a handwritten note, leaving documents on someone's chair, or face-to-face for anything else. "Anything else" includes most things that matter. For example, giving feedback via email is generally not optimal.

    The ancient Greeks taught their ambitious young men (not women, those were even more sexist times than we're in now) logic and rhetoric. Both were necessary in order to be effective. I learned to be more persuasive and more effective at emotionally engaging with my coworkers and customers because people are not solely motivated by logic when making decisions. Even people who regard themselves as entirely rational. There were far too many times when technically correct decisions were stymied by other concerns that were emotional in origin. It's one thing to know the right thing to do. It's entirely another thing to convince other people that it's right. People are judging you all the time, and part of what they're judging is your conviction, your confidence, your sense of urgency, their impression of your ability to make something happen, and whether you're such a pain in the ass that they don't want to deal with you even if you do get things done. In business (as opposed to peer-reviewed journals) all those things matter, and initiatives fail if the chemistry is wrong. Even in peer-reviewed journals, reviewers are responsive to the reputation of the authors and social interactions influence review outcomes.

    So sometimes you need to use irrational means to achieve rational ends. And that's because we are not machines, we're social. We need to engage on more than just the level of logic, even though we're in a business where logical decision-making is necessary.

    It's also worth keeping in mind that people work, think and interact differently, so email might work well for one person but face-to-face is the best way to interact with someone else. These simplistic "works for men, not for women" conclusions are too shallow to be actionable.

    The principle I follow is to over-communicate, never to rely on a single communication channel when communicating anything important, and to learn what works best for different people.

    --
    Get your teeth into a small slice: the cake of liberty
  27. Re:Perhaps another interesting question applicable by anothy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But I've realized, many people simply do not, and will not, sit down and master the information in a book to save their lives.
    or can not. when i was in grade school everyone in a certain grade (3rd, i think) was given a set of tests (WISC tests?). part of these tests were designed to determine how one learned best: written, oral, what kind of repetition was important, and so on. it was very interesting (obviously much more so now that i'm older and can look back at what was going on). myself, i can read dense technical specifications and comprehend and retain the information well, but i learn far, far more efficiently if i can just have a conversation with someone who already knows the stuff. i'm not entirely clear on why; perhaps something about being able to follow the connections my brain's trying to make by asking questions. i've observed this in myself for everything from literary analysis to programming languages to foreign languages. being able to pick up on it with other people (particularly coworkers; it takes a while to observe) is immensely useful, too.

    of course, most of those expensive training courses suck, but that's an entirely separate issue.
    --

    i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
  28. Re:Face vs Email by anothy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When considering F2F vs. Email think about the following as well. Face to face, you have to think on your feet and "roll w/ the punches" while emails can be much more crafted, thought-out, and cogent.
    you write like this is a cost or risk of face to face communications, but in fact (at least in my experience) it's the biggest benefit. in several ways.

    first, note that there are lots and lots of cases where the person you're communicating with will explicitly be trying to gauge your ability to respond to those sorts of issues. job interviews are the most obvious, but it also comes up in vendor selection, especially in situations where you're likely to have only one (or very few) people you're working with, rather than a faceless company. all sorts of partnership arrangements, too. i imagine it's less of an issue for purchasing decisions.

    also, keep in mind that the person you're communicating with will almost certainly have questions you haven't anticipated, regardless of how well thought out your message is or the form it's presented in. if they can ask the questions and get a response interactively, that round of communication ends with them feeling mostly satisfied; if they have to wait for a response to email, that uncertainty has the opportunity to sit and fester in their mind. they spend more time associating you with a feeling of uncertainty than satisfaction.

    lots of people are really bad at forming their questions back to you electronically, too. ever gotten questions back to email in-line when the question's answered later on in the document? or had someone miss a point because they have to take information from two different parts of your document together? all those things are much easier to resolve quickly in an interactive session for the recipient of the communication.
    --

    i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
  29. Re:Perhaps another interesting question applicable by zrq · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That is why the world still has salesmen.

    It depends on who you are trying to communicate to.

    Like the parent post, I find email or text easier to than face to face communication. So, if you want to sell your idea / product to me, then well written technical documentation will get a much better reception than a talkative salesman. In fact, a sales talk from someone in a suit is the best way to put me off.

  30. fear of being mocked at? by gr8dude · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can't do that in conversation, you have to get it right the first time, and know exactly where you're going and how you're going to get there before you start.
    Correct; the only problem is that you want it to happen instantly - which is exactly why it ends up in failure.

    I've been researching this issue myself and I concluded that the solution is not to let somebody push you towards a quick answer. Things done/said in haste are usually not well-planned. What email does is that it gives you that ability to take your time and think things over; you can do the same in a real discussion by not replying if you don't have an answer. Tell them that you don't know yet, tell them that you need some extra time, but don't talk out of /dev/random.

    Many people know this and use this against us - the trick is to force someone provide a quick answer to a question. The person who answers focuses on providing a fast solution, rather than providing an optimal solution - this is where we lose. I also have to add that those who generate the questions that are 'designed' to knock us down are people who carefully plan their attack. In conversations they can bring up non-essential things that you will waste your CPU cycles on, while they think about their next 'hit'.

    Another idea is that you are afraid that the person you're having a conversation with will laugh at you (in the worst case) if you tell them you can't provide an immediate answer. But fear that not, any reasonable human being is understanding and only someone unpolite and ignorant will have something against your taking your time. Personally, I never push people towards making decisions in a rush, I admire those who are not afraid to tell me that they are 'not ready' yet, and I try to avoid those who consciously use this technique as an 'offensive weapon'.
  31. Actual emails I receive by rantingkitten · · Score: 2, Funny
    I can't imagine why people would have trouble communicating via email -- male or female. Behold, snippets of actual user emails I receive from allegedly professional, successful adults with college educations:
    These are actual emails I receive, daily, from the users at a telecom for which I work.

    this phone has not worked in 2 days
    error message is : failed to get boot parameters
    via dHCP or whatever
    please fix the phones
    THANKS
    "Via DHCP or whatever." Thanks.

    WHY ARE THE PHONES NOT WORKING
    That was the whole email. In its entirety.

    Main number DOES NOT WORK and answers as DISCONNECTED. This number was successfully ported to you guys in August/September, and has otherwise been working fine !!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need this number to work ASAP!!!!!!!!!!
    I swear to you I did not add a single exclamation point to that. Also, if you can tell me how "does not work" and "otherwise works fine" fit together, I'm listening.

    FOR THE LAST 4 DAYS WE CANNOT MAKE OUTGOING CALLS TO 800 OR 866 NUMBERS. IT GOES TO A QUICK BUSY SOUND. PLS ADVISE.
    "Pls" turn off your caps lock and learn to spell.

    NOW you fucking tell me that? When in the fuck did you ever tell me I
    would need a router or switch? Eveyone has those laying around?

    And you also said I could plug it into the wall. What kind of
    instruction is that? Do I just kick a hole in the wall big enough for a
    USB connection, or does everyone have working sockets in their wall to
    accomodate phone systems in case they get one?

    Where do I get a fucking router or switch and how much more am I going
    to have to spend? And where does THAT plug in?

    I paid for a fucking phone that would plug into my computer, God damnit.
    This was the response to a salesguy from my company telling the customer that the VoIP phone plugs into a router, not the modem jack on his Mac. I really wish I was making this one up.

    You'll notice a pattern to these, as well. Specifically, people who have fairly severe problems, but don't tell anyone for days at a time, then dash off a barely-coherent, OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE message into the ether. This is what passes for proper business correspondance these days, and to these people, blithering about a problem days, weeks, or even months after the fact is a perfectly rational way to behave.

    These are people who will go on and on about how successful they are with their little mortgage broker jobs or what-have-you. These are men AND women who read and write at the sixth-grade level.

    Email fails to communicate -- not because of the medium, but because of the mouth-breathers who use it.
    --
    mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.