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Seeing Color in the Night

Roland Piquepaille writes "In 'Things that show color in the night,' the Boston Globe reports that a company named Tenebraex is helping color blind people to travel. But it's also developing goggles to help soldiers and physicians to see all colors at night, and not only the green color of current night vision systems. These goggles, which should become available this summer, will be sold for about $6,000 to the Army. But as states one of the founders of the company, with monochrome night vision, 'blood is the same color as water.' So these expensive night vision devices might be more targeted to Army physicians than to regular soldiers."

28 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. press release disguised as news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative


    but we knew that from reading who the submitter is

    anyway here is the product page from Tenebraex
    http://camouflage.com/colornightvision.php

  2. Depth perception by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Will adding color help with depth perception? It's one of the big issues with current night vision.

    1. Re:Depth perception by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Informative

      I doubt it. It will help some if the colors are vibrant enough for the human eye to read more "cues" than were available with green-vision, but otherwise it still comes back to the matter of binocular vision. You need two sensors set apart from one another at the approximate distance of your eyes in order to replicate that ability. Otherwise, it's like strapping a television screen to your face and a camera to your head, and walking down the street. You can do it, but it's disorienting.

    2. Re:Depth perception by MindStalker · · Score: 4, Informative

      The real problem is one of magnification. Most night googles provide some amount of magnification (ie zoom) providing depth perception and zoom requires heavy math on the part of the googles to separate the images just the right amount to provide a sense of depth that would be faulty if you simply zoomed. Its possible but computationally heavy.

    3. Re:Depth perception by gravesb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, as an infantry officer, I prefer the monocular. If you get whited-out, you still have one good eye. It takes a bit to get used to, but once you are used to it, the monocular is an excellent system.

      --
      http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
    4. Re:Depth perception by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm "attacking" the Army by complaining how it doesn't adequately supply troops? Maybe I'm attacking the top brass that controls those things, but I don't think I'm attacking the Army as a whole, certainly not the soldiers who have to put up with doing battle without any armor, or having to accept substandard medical care.

      Ultimately, the blame for these things lies at the very top.

      And yes, I do bitch about my tax money being spent on the military: I can think of many better things to spend $1 TRILLION on than an unjustified war. A standing military for national defense is a good thing; starting wars in other countries for no good reason (and the consequential gigantic military expenditures) is not. If you disagree, I'm sure the Pentagon will happily accept your donations.

    5. Re:Depth perception by gravesb · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, the PVS-14 only covers one eye.

      --
      http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
    6. Re:Depth perception by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you notice, many night vision goggles have one lens for capturing the 'input' (actually the intensifier) which is split and fed to the two lenses for your eyes. So, yes, in many cases they are getting the same image for both eyes. i.e. it is not true binocular vision.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    7. Re:Depth perception by generationcrm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was a grunt for a few years a decade ago, I imagine like most things in the military the usless Airforce will get all the new stuff, the Amy will get a little of it, and the Marines will be opening gear package in the Vietnam era. All, joking aside... I don't see a need for color, I do see it for medics. But frankly for your average soldier patroling and or fighting at night, "where's my tarket" is all you need. Keep it simple lik binary... 0 or 1....Target or no target.

      --
      Just an everyday guy....nothing special
    8. Re:Depth perception by cp.tar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now, sorry for being blunt (i.e. trolling), but military equipment is expensive.
      Suckers who volunteer to fight in wars are a dime a dozen.

      I mean, nobody pays people to reproduce, but they do it anyway, eh? The more you kill, the more will spawn.

      (Why, yes, I am a mizanthrope.)

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    9. Re:Depth perception by Scrameustache · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, as an infantry officer, I prefer the monocular. Oh la di da, the officer likes his monocle!

      </taunt>
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  3. More than just combat issues, here... by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are some non-gun-toting people who need to operate in a stealthy or semi-stealthy manner that would make use of this sort of thing. Think of the National Geographic-types that are setting up a pre-dawn shoot and trying to remain less visible, or the guys working on a forward helicopter refueling station who definitely prefer to be harder to see and definitely want to know the difference between stepping in a puddle of water and a puddle of hydraulic fluid.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  4. The Night Is the Hunter by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Funny

    How about some of these color nightvision goggles fitted with the bat ears that allow human echolocation?

    Those kinds of sense boosters could make night, with less distractions away from the target, the most effective time to purse targets.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  5. For the record... by coolmoose25 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have color blindness, but I can still see colors. Most color blind people can see colors, they simply have trouble distinguishing one color from the other, particularly when they are close... For instance, I have no trouble telling the difference between a red light and a green light, and I have no trouble distinguishing the colors on a weather map. But ask me to identify a particular color as pink or purple, and I can see the color as either or both at the same time. That's why I can't see the damn number on the test page! Most color blind people do not see in Monochrome, as it would seem that most of the non-color-blind world tends to believe. For more info, check out the wikipedia entry...

    --
    Brawndo: It's what plants crave!
  6. Psshhh by CasperIV · · Score: 4, Funny

    The non-gun-toting people are not as interesting. Besides, I do not condone the voyeurism of animals.

  7. Re:"Blood the same color as water????" by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Informative

    I thought these things were infra red based.

    Nope. Green-vision systems work on light-amplification principles. Infrared is a different technology that's more useful in tracking than it is as generic night-vision.
  8. So what is it doing, exactly? by The-Bus · · Score: 2, Informative

    I wonder how this device works. There's no information about it at Tenebraex's website, so it doesn't say. I know that in basic biology you learn that eyes are made up of rods and cones. Rods distinguish light and dark and cones distinguish color. Cones don't work very well in the dark. Rods do. So we can't "see" color as well in the dark. It's interesting that this is both a biological and a technological problem.

    --

    Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

  9. Different Technologies by DG · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are three main technologies used for night vision in military equipment:

    1) Active IR: This is the old-style IR spotlight. This uses a just-below-visible IR spotlight and an IR-sensitive optical device (usually a driving periscope) Despite being IR-based, it is fairly narrowband and so isn't sensitive to heat - it is more like an "invisible spotlight". Not used much anymore.

    2) Image Intensifiers (aka "Starlight"): This is the technology behind "night vision goggles" or NVGs for short. They magnify the available light. They are also slightly sensitive to near-IR, so you can see IR-based LEDs, stobes, glowsticks etc - wearing one, you can see the IR LED flash in a TV remote control. The older Gen 1 goggles used an element for each eye, so you had grainy binocular vision. Newer systems from Gen II to Gen IV give an increasingly sharper and clearer picture, but tend to be monocular, so no depth perception - and I've seen some pretty funny things happen because of it. These don't see heat either.

    3) Thermal Imagers (aka TI): These are heat-sensitive, and can see through most smokes. These are much larger units, and are usually used as part of vehicle weapon system sights or dedicated surveillance equipment (NOD-IR) Most modern tanks have them, LAV-25s and Bradleys have them, and there are manpack versions to use in an OP - but you won't be bolting these to your helmet anytime soon.

    Up close, these can see through clothing. Don't ask how I know this. ;)

    DG

    --
    Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
  10. It's that special military pricing by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Funny

    These goggles, which should become available this summer, will be sold for about $6,000 to the Army.

    And sold to consumers at Best Buy for $49.99 ($45.99 at Amazon).

    1. Re:It's that special military pricing by afidel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      During Gulf War I this was exactly the situation with GPS locators. The milspec units were in short supply with a high cost and long lead time, so many soldiers had their family buy them civilian units for their use. The interesting thing is that while the milspec units had a very high theoretical edge in accuracy in practice the civilian units were generally as accurate because the milspec units were older technology that couldn't make full use of the extra information in the military signal whereas the civilian units used nearly every bit of information contained in the unencrypted signal.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  11. Re:not for physicians only! by zcubed · · Score: 2, Funny

    Paris Hilton should get one and then we wouldn't have to look at the green vids anymore.

  12. This is way old news... by CatsupBoy · · Score: 2, Funny
  13. Voyeurism by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Once this technology drops to $500 or so, the major use will be for voyeurism. Porn drives the internet.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  14. Re:Fuck Roland Piquepaille by Ed+Avis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No. Ronald Piquepaille has mended his ways. The story links straight to the relevant article and not to his blog. The last few stories from him have done the same. It's time to declare victory and move on to some other gripe.

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  15. switch, maybe? by PhetusPolice · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've come to understand that seeing in only one/two color(s) (ie black and white, nightvision, etc) helps see movement a LOT easiar, which is why many predators have black and white vision. If I were a soldier on the field at night, I'd prefer to keep my nightvision on as a default, but I'm sure it would be useful for them to see in colors for a brief moment to determine what it is they are looking at (such as water and blood). But to always see in color at night might actually inhibit a soldier's ability.

  16. Colors in the night... by Brad1138 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This reminds me of a question my Grandfather posed to me when I was young (30+ yrs ago). When the lights are out, can you not see colors (objects) because it is dark or because they don't have any color w/o light shining on them, a bit like "does a tree falling make noise if no one is there to hear it". I haven't thought of this in a while, I am sure there is a scientific answer, I would guess the prior, the characteristics that make an object a certain color are still there when the lights are out.

    --
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
  17. Oh Please.... by encoderer · · Score: 2

    "that's a matter of the Army being too cheap-ass to properly equip troops, not a technical problem. It's the same reason the Army doesn't bother giving troops body armor, armoring vehicles, or providing adequate medical care"
    You can't actually believe what you're saying, can you?

    The US armed forces are the most highly equipped fighting forces in the history of the world. I mean, for chrissake, the crux of your argument is that the army is "cheap ass" because it only supplies monocular NIGHT VISION GOGGLES to its GIs. This is about as relevant as complaining that the Army is cheap because they only hand out Core-Solo notebooks to users instead of Core-Duo notebooks.

    Do we have a perfect military? Of course not. But that's what you're complaining about. That they're not perfect. You're complaining because we gave troops body armor, just not enough. You're complaining that there WERE armored humvees and APCs but that not EVERY humvee was armored.

    And your comment about medical care? Puh-leese. Our combat hospitals in Iraq have saved thousands and thousands of troops who, if this were Vietnam or even Desert Storm, would have been coming home in a bodybag. We're fighting a war where you can take shrapnel to the brain and LIVE TO TALK ABOUT IT ON NATIONAL TV. You can be in a fully equipped operating room having neurosurgery within 30 minutes of your injury. Brain Surgery. In a combat zone.

    Yes, there are side effects to this. The Army has to treat FAR MORE injuries and the emotional stress associated with them. Since the civil war, these people were treated by the battlefield medic. Best case scenario the medic was able to stick them full of enough morphine to put them asleep so they could die in peace. Today, the medic has the equivalent of M*A*S*H in his back pack and within a half hour you're in a combat hospital on an operating table every bit as advanced as world class permanent facilities. Forty-eight hours later you're Stateside or in Europe beginning long term recovery.

    So yes, that does mean some overcrowding issues. We're saving so many lives we don't know where to put them all. I don't mean to make light of the deplorable conditions at Walter Reed but go ads some soldiers. Say "Would you rather take shrapnel in Vietnam, stick yourself with your morphine, and if you're lucky, get a syringe of your buddies morphine so you can lay there and bleed out dreaming of the medivac, Or, would you rather take shrapnel in Iraq, be treated by a battlefield medic who will run an IV, treat your pain, and give you blood, as you wait for a medivac to take you to an operating table 20 minutes away before sewing you up and sending you off to lay in a moldy hotel room in surburban Washington DC for a day or two"

    What would YOU choose? Obviously having them lay in paradise on craftmatic adjustable hammocks being fed grapes by gorgeous naked nymphomaniacs would be a great third choice, but this is reality. We have constraints to deal with.

    That's just how it is. At the end of the day, there are constraints. Even for the military. Even with a half trillion dollar budget. Simply put, what you're asking for will cost more money. How do you propose we pay for it?
  18. Re:Fuck Roland Piquepaille by siglercm · · Score: 5, Informative
    Oblig: Please tag as 'ohnoitsroland' -- thank you.

    Ronald Piquepaille has mended his ways. The story links straight to the relevant article and not to his blog. Are you sure? I haven't been checking the Firehose lately. When I did last week, Roland was submitting articles with self-referring blog links.

    You see, it's the Slashdot editors we should be thanking, not Roland in the least. They have (at least twice recently) redacted his go-back-to-my-blog-and-run-up-my-hits self linkage. Thank you, editors!
    --
    sigfault (core dumped)