Linux Preinstalled Dell Available Soon

An anonymous reader writes "According to a BetaNews article, Dell confirmed on Wednesday plans to offer Linux pre-installed on select desktop and notebook systems, beyond its current Linux-based servers and Precision workstations. No specific time frame was given for the expanded Linux plans, although the company said in a blog posting that it will provide an update in the coming weeks regarding the effort. It will detail 'information on which systems we will offer, our testing and certification efforts, and the Linux distribution(s) that will be available,' Dell said, adding that, 'The countdown begins today.'"

Comments

Dell-Ubuntu

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if Shuttleworth is working his business skill magic to get Ubuntu on these machines.

Let the cheering being...

[X-treme-LLama]

I know that most of the crowd around here will be thrilled.. But I do wonder how broad the market actually is for this.. Obviously Linux is growing, and depending on distro becoming more user friendly all the time... The server market is a given, but linux is already doing well there.. 100,000 responses != 100,000 sales.. I'm sure many of the responses were already fans and users.. But that might be counter-acted by people who would buy but didn't comment, or might not even be aware.

The lack of the MS tax will be great, but I have to wonder how many 'regular joes' and 'mom and pops' will try it out. We all know the stories about people setting up their parents with it, but that comes with an implied, and personal support system. And if their Linux Tech Support is anything like their Windows Support the help available may be less than stellar. I sure hope it catches on, even a little competition for MS is a good thing, and introducing people to OSS is fantastic. I also wonder if they'll have the models available at brick and mortar retailers, and if they'll actually push them.

I think the sales figures will be very interesting to watch, especially for non-enterprise customers. The figures I'd be especially interested in would be the people who were happy with their purchase, and the real numbers behind that might be impossible to come by..

Re:Let the cheering being...

[JanneM]

The last two research labs I worked at both have sales and support contracts with Dell; when we need a new computer - from a server to a workstation to a laptop - unless we have specific reason otherwise, we buy Dell. And they all come with Windows.

Of course, the previous lab was perhaps 80% Linux, and the current one is 50% (and the in-house IT group installs a dual-boot Linux by default on every Windows machine). And in fact I know there's been growing grumbling about this kind of exclusive deal when they aren't offering what we're using (no, the OS is not the whole issue but it's a fairly big part).

In this kind of environment, sales of the Linux version would easily be more than half of all machines, including laptops. Now of course, this is not a very common environment on one hand, but we go through computing equipment like a TV preacher goes through hairspray on the other, so the field of research is not totally insignificant even for a large corporation.

Re:Let the cheering being...

[solanum]

I work for an organisation with several thousand employees and which has an exclusive deal with Dell (for desktops at least). Few of those employees use Linux, but I have installed it on my desktop and laptop with not too many problems. Before working here I would never have considered buying Dell, but I have actually been pleasantly surprised with the build quality. Next time I am in the market for a laptop at home (have toshiba at the mo which came with winxp home), I may well be persuaded by a Dell machine if they offered a machine that was the same build but guaranteed to work with Linux.

My point is that whilst the market may not be huge, Dell doing this could gain themselves a much larger part of that market by making these offerings, so it may well be successful for them.

Re:Let the cheering being...

[Terrasque]

Sure, anyone could go download those for free, but how many 'regular joes' know to do so?

From the amount of spyware they manage to download and install, I'd say "most of them".
They're just landing on the wrong webpages.

Re:Let the cheering being...

[sydb]

I've got ten PCs myself, nine of which run Linux

That's nothing, I've got fourteen, all of which run Linux.

But seriously, put your dick away, it's smaller from this angle than you might think.

I used to build my PCs but after you've cut your hands to shreds on the sharp edges of metal cases often enough, you realise that there is a value-add in pre-built machines. Corporate desktops in particular, like SFF Compaqs, are much easier to handle and upgrade, and I think they look nicer than your typical hobbiest tower machine. There are also a number of small specialists doing quality hardware, like DNUK for instance, where I got my last workstation.

If you "need" that many "machines", look at virtualisation. Do you have them all powered on at once? operating at 100% CPU? Maybe you do if you have specialist interests like simulating nuclear explosions or competing with SETI but chances are you are burning several kilowatts more than you need. Heard of global warming? Do you pay your own electricity bills?

Plus, system integration is not that interesting when you're just putting commodity parts together. The fun, for me anyway, is in the software and what you can do with it.

Re:Let the cheering being...

[an.echte.trilingue]

I got a computer from tigerdirect.com a couple years ago with windows, OOo, and firefox. I thought I was screwed at the time because I assumed the "complete MS compatible office suite" they advertised was MS Office or MS Works at least, but it is how I, Joe Sixpack himself, discovered Open Source. That same computer now has debian.

Betcha they'll wait for Ubuntu Feisty

[JimMarch(equalccw)]

I've been playing with the late alpha (Herd5) Feisty and now beta and lemme tell you, saying it's got "potential" is an understatement. WiFi support is worlds better, hardware autodetection is improved and the new auto-installer for codecs as they're needed flat-out rocks.

As long as you're not doing RAID and you're cautious about 3D desktop stuff, Feisty Beta is really ready to now for semi-experienced Linux users and has strong potential as "The Chosen One" of distros. It should eat significant market share as people with older Win98 boxes are forced to upgrade to *something* due to lack of ongoing security support. And it'll tempt a lot of XP folk disgusted with malware issues.

This has to be Dell's top choice and it's due for production release late April '07.

Re:Betcha they'll wait for Ubuntu Feisty

[QuantumG]

Uhh.. who cares about autodetection? You're buying a PC with Linux preinstalled. Dell will give the hardware to Canonical.. they will get their tech monkeys to tweak Ubuntu until it works as best as they can possibly get it to work.. then they'll make a disk image that Dell can put onto their production line.

Or were you just using this story as an opportunity to flog Feisty?

Now, if only...

[benuski]

...they'd start making laptops with cases that don't threaten to break every 5 minutes, I'd consider buying another one after my current one. But if they don't, I'm still going to seriously consider buying a Thinkpad.

Can only be a good thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe regular people will buy these and have no troubles using Linux. Dell will install links for Firefox, Open Office and Thunderbird. They will just need to plug in their broadband connection to either their router or computer and away they go. I'm somewhat concerned about dial-up users as I've found out finding a compatible Linux ISP can be a pain so I could not imagine what they would go through. In the end they will figure it out or ask someone how to do it for them just like they did for Windows.

Re:is there a politician in the room?

[oztiks]

I'd rate you funny not insightful :)

But this is the thing, anger Microsoft yes, but what will the repercussions of this anger be? the only thing they'll do is entice Dell by sweetening their already sweet ass deal.

I stick to this being just a silly ploy to screw Microsoft down a little more as the need for Windows becomes less and less a necessity in the marketplace and merely just another option for people to use. Regardless if Dell supports Linux or not the playing field with MacOS, Linux and Windows is becoming more and more on the same level as times goes.

Larger business is welcoming these changes and why not? any smart business will always keep their options open, who wants to be stuck relying on another businesses success for their own operation and to function correctly? I know for sure that my business doesn't want to be put in such a position. Look at Norton for instance they relied on a need that Windows provided, now they have been burned by this need, proper business ethics points the finger at Microsoft and say "BAD BOY DON'T DO THAT!", Microsoft says "HA! I don't care I'm invisible" and now other company's large and small a like will see that ethics and understand they cant rely on Microsoft to not work against them at any possible time.

Yeah i know ms fan boys will spout how wrong i am etc, etc but that record is old and busted now because Linux desktop is a reality and its not as hard it has been in the past. Businesses are seeing its viablity and if the larger company's start supporting it, it will become as easy as Windows to use (if not easier.) Heck Ubuntu is very easy to use as it is, it just needs that little push and WAYYYY it goes :)

Preinstalled with Novell Suse Linux?

[yoobb]

Will the Dell be preinstalled with Novell Suse Linux? With the previous wheeling and dealing between Microsoft and Novell, that would seem to make the most sense (in a twisted way). The only other conventional alternative I can see is Red Hat. I doubt Dell would preinstall a Linux distribution that doesn't have strong corporate backing like Novell or Red Hat.

Re:Great

[iamacat]

Sure, you can also build your own PC or change oil in your car by yourself. People who don't enjoy compiling NVIDIA kernel module on their own might pay a few extra bucks to get it done instead.

Re:So...

[tinkertim]

Does this mean that Dell will have to stop selling Windows? Or that they'll go bankrupt? Or will their offices be burned down to the ground? What was the reason for this not happening before again?

All good questions.

I'm sure the lack of interest in Vista has something to do with this. When MS is about to release a new OS, they talk to hardware vendors and share some market predictions. They expected to sell XX copies, which in turn translated to Dell means "We'll sell xx new PC's due to Vista". Its not just Dell, it was everyone, but Dell is the example.

Dell of course did not sell nearly as many PC's as they expected, sees part of their market headed for Ubuntu and RHEL and needs to follow the trend.

I don't know, however if they are violating some part of their resale agreement with Microsoft and its a very good question. Is MS just 'staying' this because they know it was Vista that ultimately lead to this happening, or are they going to really bitch about it?

As for their offices burning down, I guess that depends on how many employees are using Dell Laptops.

As for why now? Why not a year ago? I think it was due to 2.4 and earlier 2.6 kernels not going so well on their hardware. I also think the growing server market had a bit to do with it.

Finally Yes Dell could go bankrupt, but I doubt offering Linux as an option will have contributed to that if it happens. After all, its not the condom's fault that you forgot to put it on :)

Re:Great, and maybe possible

[AliasMarlowe]

Perhaps a PC could be given three prices, so the purchaser has a proper choice:

1. Windows, without promotional crapplets
2. Windows, with promotional crapplets
3. Linux, with drivers

Clearly, options 2 and 3 would be lower cost than option 1. I expect that options 2 and 3 would be similar in cost, even if the Linux option included a DVD with the distribution, drivers, and a collection of FOSS packages. The trade-offs in pricing would be visible in a way that customers might understand, although the crapplet collection would probably be described as "bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages" to mask its negative value. People who truly want Windows might opt for the reduced-crap option, even if its price is higher (especially if they experienced the crapplet search & destroy obstacle course after an earlier purchase).

With luck, we will never see the fourth pricing option which lurks malevolently in the background:
4. Linux, with bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages

Re:So...

[IrquiM]

No, we don't build our own if we can get them from dell cheaper!

Re:So...

[schotty]

Word of mouth.

Really, Linux isn't that unknown. Especially when all the geeks/nerds/admins are running around with Linux orientated Con shirts and laptops with Ubuntu or Fedora on it. I have converted my share. All have been told I can reinstall windows for them for free if things don't work out. Zero requests to do so. Most have been followed up with too.

And thats just me.

More companies are using it. Schools are starting to switch. Some people do notice this, and spark interest. Just pretend now you are a tech noob, and hear about this Ubuntu thing. What do you get when you google that? One of the better Linux homepages IMHO. Enough to at least spark interest or curiousity. And most people have their resident geek to ask about. Thats how over half of the people I know are on Linux (mostly Linspire and Ubuntu) found out about it. Some blurb somewhere and drilled me.

However, that being said, some real advertising beyond IBM is needed. Especially with the context of the IBM ads. They are aimed at us and the PHB and the army of Sr Admins that control what toys get bought and when. When Ubuntu or Linspire get ads with a Dell or Gateway, then the real momentum will begin.

Re:Now it's up to the linux users

[schotty]

I definitely will. I just don't have time to build my own anymore, much less ensure that each part is compliant. If it comes with the OS, it at least will work (perhaps not the best quality, but will work).

Yes I am getting lazy in some areas I used to have a much larger passion in. Have a kid, and start your own repair shop. Can you say "No f-ing time?"

If the price is fair its a done deal. System 76 matches the criteria too :D They do have some compteition already.

Re:Great, and maybe possible

[tijmentiming]

5. Dualboot Windows and Linux. (Or with VMWare)

Re:Great, and maybe possible

[Mr. Underbridge]

Perhaps a PC could be given three prices, so the purchaser has a proper choice:

1. Windows, without promotional crapplets
2. Windows, with promotional crapplets
3. Linux, with drivers

Clearly, options 2 and 3 would be lower cost than option 1

3) will cost at least as much as 1), and both will be more expensive than 2). The subsidized windows machine will cost the least due to the crapplets as well as economy of scale. The Linux machine will probably be more than the crapplet-free Windows machine because a) from what I've heard, selling a few machines without windows doesn't really save the OEM any money from MS, and b) again, the economy of scale with Windows.

So there needs to be a shift in thinking: asking for Linux on a Dell is *not* a way to get a computer from Dell cheaper than they already are. It's possibly a way to get a machine pre-installed with Linux, and probably more importantly to get a machine with components that are guaranteed to work with Linux.

Re:Great, and maybe possible

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlikely that 2 would cost the same as 3. All those promotional craplets make up for the cost of Windows, so ultimately, Windows costs them less than nothing, as opposed to even a non-commercial Linux distribution, at a grand total of nothing, still costs them more than Windows.

--------
What I'm interested in seeing, personally, is weather or not the community will support Dell by buying these Linux pre-loaded Dells. This might sound stupid, but its not secret that there's a fairly noticible anti-Dell bias. And one has to ask oneself: Do the people who pushed Dell to preload Linux even intend to purchase Liux loaded Dells, or was all the fuss only for the sake of someone making Linux availible in such a way?

I'd hate to see this turn out for Dell, like Corel's Linux adventure turned out: So much presure to release their apps for Linux, so they finally did release both their top-of-the-line graphics suite, and WordPerfect suite, the former being free (as in beer), only to be completely shunned by the community, leading to Corel ultimately pulling out and abandoning Linux altogether.

So the moral of the story is, anyone who's been pushing Dell to offer Linux desktops owes it to both Dell and the community to put their money where their mouths are, as they say, and go buy Dell. Its a two way street. if the community wants vendors to support Linux, they're going to have to support the vendors.

TAx

[kurtis25]

Are we going to have a pay a Linux tax? Or more appropriately a non-windows tax because Dell will have to spend extra money on supporting Linux systems and users.

Re:So...

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

"What was the reason for this not happening before again?"

A perceived lack of ROI, I would guess. Whether that perception was accurate will be determined once they've been offering the Linux PC's for a while and can weigh their profits against support costs. Exactly it -- and I think that the very real result will be lackluster sales, causing them to turn around and say, "See? There's no market for this." I love linux - I run it on three home servers, one home desktop, and on a VM here at work (not allowed to run it on my desktop). However, I won't rush out to buy a preloaded system -- why bother? I build all my own PCs, and I suspect most people who use linux workstations do the same. And the people who we want to get linux to -- those poor, unaware Windows users -- will continue to be unaware of the offering. For them, the operating system doesn't exist; a computer /is/ Windows to them. Unless Dell actively markets it not as Linux, but as an easy-to-use desktop system for the average home user, these folks will remain happily oblivious. Anyone want to bet those odds?

Not typical.

[SanityInAnarchy]

I know plenty of people who are attracted to Dell because they're finally making solid machines, and because if you watch their homepage for awhile, you can occasionally find really nice sales. I like to build my own computer, but if I can get an equivalent Dell for half the price of the components, and not have to put it together myself and hope it works, I call it a win.

And I'm a Linux user.

But suppose I was an XP user. Right now, Linux can have better support for pre-Vista software via Wine -- Vista is actually broken enough that it depends on your software whether it's easier to go to Wine or to Vista. And, remember all those problems nVidia was having with Vista? I'm not sure if those are resolved yet, or what other problems there might be, but Linux support from nVidia has been rock solid -- and thus, actually better than Vista right now.

So, oddly enough, I would recommend Linux over Vista for gaming, although you're really better off with XP. I fully expect this to change, though -- Vista SP1 will probably fix every problem I've described here.

Re:I call BS

[cerberusss]

Speak for yourself. I'd *love* a pre-installed Linux. The last 6 years I've been running Linux on the desktop at work and at home, and frankly, I can't see the fun anymore in installation and spending hours to get the last hardware supported.