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Linux Preinstalled Dell Available Soon
An anonymous reader writes "According to a BetaNews article,
Dell confirmed on Wednesday plans to offer Linux pre-installed on select desktop and notebook systems, beyond its current Linux-based servers and Precision workstations.
No specific time frame was given for the expanded Linux plans, although the company said in a blog posting that it will provide an update in the coming weeks regarding the effort. It will detail 'information on which systems we will offer, our testing and certification efforts, and the Linux distribution(s) that will be available,' Dell said, adding that, 'The countdown begins today.'"
Does this mean that Dell will have to stop selling Windows? Or that they'll go bankrupt? Or will their offices be burned down to the ground? What was the reason for this not happening before again?
I wonder if Shuttleworth is working his business skill magic to get Ubuntu on these machines.
Now just tell me it costs less than, or at least the same as, the same PC with Windows pre-installed.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
I just hope Dell offers lots of distributions and gives the option of lots of different Linux support services. That's the great thing about Open Source.. there's an actual market for support services.. you're not stuck with the manufacturer. Dell could become the shop for desktop Linux.
How we know is more important than what we know.
If in fact "no specific time frame was given", then how the fuck can "the countdown begins today"? Counting down to an undetermined date is like counting up to inifinity. And I have a feeling Dell knows this. This way they can talk the talk without having to actually walk the walk and either lose money or anger Microsoft.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I know that most of the crowd around here will be thrilled.. But I do wonder how broad the market actually is for this.. Obviously Linux is growing, and depending on distro becoming more user friendly all the time... The server market is a given, but linux is already doing well there.. 100,000 responses != 100,000 sales.. I'm sure many of the responses were already fans and users.. But that might be counter-acted by people who would buy but didn't comment, or might not even be aware.
The lack of the MS tax will be great, but I have to wonder how many 'regular joes' and 'mom and pops' will try it out. We all know the stories about people setting up their parents with it, but that comes with an implied, and personal support system. And if their Linux Tech Support is anything like their Windows Support the help available may be less than stellar. I sure hope it catches on, even a little competition for MS is a good thing, and introducing people to OSS is fantastic. I also wonder if they'll have the models available at brick and mortar retailers, and if they'll actually push them.
I think the sales figures will be very interesting to watch, especially for non-enterprise customers. The figures I'd be especially interested in would be the people who were happy with their purchase, and the real numbers behind that might be impossible to come by..
My rantings, only longer and with better spelling..
...a commercial with a stoner penguin saying, "Dude, you're getting a Dell!".
I've been playing with the late alpha (Herd5) Feisty and now beta and lemme tell you, saying it's got "potential" is an understatement. WiFi support is worlds better, hardware autodetection is improved and the new auto-installer for codecs as they're needed flat-out rocks.
As long as you're not doing RAID and you're cautious about 3D desktop stuff, Feisty Beta is really ready to now for semi-experienced Linux users and has strong potential as "The Chosen One" of distros. It should eat significant market share as people with older Win98 boxes are forced to upgrade to *something* due to lack of ongoing security support. And it'll tempt a lot of XP folk disgusted with malware issues.
This has to be Dell's top choice and it's due for production release late April '07.
Hopefully the only Windows they will soon be installing at Dell headquarters are chair-proof windows.
...they'd start making laptops with cases that don't threaten to break every 5 minutes, I'd consider buying another one after my current one. But if they don't, I'm still going to seriously consider buying a Thinkpad.
Dell Australia (actually, malaysia or wherever they are outsourcing to) denied me my attempted return of my vista license. I had not accepted the EULA that comes up when you start the notebook for the first time.
I asked them to send me the EULA after they denied me on the phone (there was no comprehension of the issue), this is the response I received:
As per our conversation, we are unable to refund or exchange the Microsoft Windows Vista Operating System as the license is already tied to your computer, service tag #: BLAHBLAH
And any exchange or refund of the license would be in breach of licensing agreement.
Microsoft Vista is a good platform where technology is moving forwards and the markets are now gearing towards Microsoft Windows Vista.
Any advice or let it go? - how amusing is that final sentence!
Now it's up to the linux users to actually buy those Dell systems they've been begging to come pre-installed with Linux for so long, to prove it wasn't just meaningless bitching and that they actually want Dells with Linux.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Seriously, why?
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
Will the Dell be preinstalled with Novell Suse Linux? With the previous wheeling and dealing between Microsoft and Novell, that would seem to make the most sense (in a twisted way). The only other conventional alternative I can see is Red Hat. I doubt Dell would preinstall a Linux distribution that doesn't have strong corporate backing like Novell or Red Hat.
Cliche overload! My brain has been slashdotted...
"Hello, this is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce Linux as Dell!"
For everyone who says that this is a ploy by Dell: What do they have to do exactly? I have heard nothing but doubt on Dell's sincerity since this whole thing started, and as far as I can tell, Dell has done every thing possible to do what was originally asked of it on IdeaStorm. It has also lived up to all of it's promises about going forward with Linux on their computers. So, give them a break. Just wait and see if they keep their promise or not before you start talking about how they are just doing it as some evil Microsoft plan to take over the world (or the rest of it anyway).
The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
I know that most of the crowd around here will be thrilled.. But I do wonder how broad the market actually is for this..
Can we please cut down on the "but I wonder" posts. Never mind what gets posted, there's always a bunch of folks there to "wonder" about the opposite happening, never mind what's the talk about. Just as some sorta hobby.
Why wonder, when you can wait and see? If Dell offers Linux computers, this is good. It can't possibly be bad, if nobody buys 'em Dell will stop offering them. Nothing more.
Dell: How can I help you today?
Me: I bought this computer with Linux on it from you guys, and now I am having problems with X.
Dell: RTFM, n00b!
Ronald said nothing. He flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse, and rode madly off in all directions.
Perhaps a PC could be given three prices, so the purchaser has a proper choice:
1. Windows, without promotional crapplets
2. Windows, with promotional crapplets
3. Linux, with drivers
Clearly, options 2 and 3 would be lower cost than option 1. I expect that options 2 and 3 would be similar in cost, even if the Linux option included a DVD with the distribution, drivers, and a collection of FOSS packages. The trade-offs in pricing would be visible in a way that customers might understand, although the crapplet collection would probably be described as "bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages" to mask its negative value. People who truly want Windows might opt for the reduced-crap option, even if its price is higher (especially if they experienced the crapplet search & destroy obstacle course after an earlier purchase).
With luck, we will never see the fourth pricing option which lurks malevolently in the background:
4. Linux, with bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
You ruined my search on the keyword 'Funny', you insensitive clod !
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
Personally, I do not care much if Dell ships laptops with Linux.
What would make me positively surprised is if any large computer manufacturer would provide hardware with a guaranteed open specifications. If I get it with or without OS is irrelevant.
Closed hardware and no specs makes me a dull boy.
Dell: Hello, can we help you?
Me: Hi, I am having some problems installing Linux on my new Dell laptop. I need some information about the video card so I can set up X.
Dell: Ok, umm
Me: Yes?
Dell: Ok, umm
Me: Uh... Phonetics??
Dell: Yes Phonetics... you know Lima, Indigo, November...
Me: Mmm... Ok... I don't know phonetics but I'll try... Lima, Indigo, November..... wait... let me seee.... http://www.google.com/
Dell: Excellent Sir! Now please spell out your full name and address, the model name of your Dell computer, it's serial code, the Linux operating system version and your corporate credentials... Using phonetics of course.
Me: All of it?
Dell: Yes, all of it.
Me: Is that necessary?
Dell: Yes Sir. In order to avoid any confusion about the origin of support calls Dell management has decided that all identifying information has to be spelled out by the customer using phonetics.
Me: Arrrghh... Very well then... Juliet, October, Hotel, Ummm..... let me see.... November, Delta, October, Echo.... Ummm.... Oh, fuck this..... **Hangs up**
Dell: Ahhhh... Yet another Linux support call successfully handled.
Me: Hmmmm.... let me see: http://groups.google.com/ comp->linux....
I actually had a conversation like this with a support guy (from Network solutions IIRC, it was a couple of years ago).
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
will a preinstalled linux prevoid the warranty?
Lemon curry???
5. Dualboot Windows and Linux. (Or with VMWare)
This isn't the first time Dell offered Linux. The last time they made a half-hearted effort then made a big show of saying no one wanted it. The Linux machines were almost impossible to find on their web site, didn't have any support options and they charged more for not putting Windows on the box. Some test.
So I'm wondering if this is an actual effort to offer Linux boxes or another PR stunt? I don't trust Dell any farther than I can pee into a hurricane. They speak with the stench of Redmond on their lips.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Large companies have a very difficult time supporting more than one OS. It's about depth of staffing and skill. Of course if one assumes that Linux won't require as much support than I suppose there's an opening there. But if you imagine that Dell will preload any of your 20 favorite distros you are tripping. It will be SuSE and Red Hat. Period. And after some time they will eliminate one of them. Another year or two they'll discover that they're spending 20% as much as Windows to support 5% the customer base of Windows and then they will pull the plug on this.
Perhaps a PC could be given three prices, so the purchaser has a proper choice:
1. Windows, without promotional crapplets
2. Windows, with promotional crapplets
3. Linux, with drivers
Clearly, options 2 and 3 would be lower cost than option 1
3) will cost at least as much as 1), and both will be more expensive than 2). The subsidized windows machine will cost the least due to the crapplets as well as economy of scale. The Linux machine will probably be more than the crapplet-free Windows machine because a) from what I've heard, selling a few machines without windows doesn't really save the OEM any money from MS, and b) again, the economy of scale with Windows.
So there needs to be a shift in thinking: asking for Linux on a Dell is *not* a way to get a computer from Dell cheaper than they already are. It's possibly a way to get a machine pre-installed with Linux, and probably more importantly to get a machine with components that are guaranteed to work with Linux.
Are we going to have a pay a Linux tax? Or more appropriately a non-windows tax because Dell will have to spend extra money on supporting Linux systems and users.
. . . if I have a problem with it is Dell Support going to tell me to reformat the hard drive and load Windows. . .?
What?
This whole Dell preinstalled Linux thing strikes me as a sham to get something out of Microsoft, like lower Windows license prices.
The best thing Dell could do for Linux is simply make sure its hardware works. Put some engineers in a "Linux lab." They would make sure that all Dell computers, or just select Dell models, work well with Linux. That would mean that these models would have supported wireless and multimedia buttons that work. They would have video cards with open source drivers. Dell's Linux Web page would be much improved over its current version. It would have detailed instructions on how to make sure that suspend to RAM works with Dell laptops. It would have detailed instructions on how to get a selected Dell remote control to work with MythTV. Dell engineers would make sure the hardware has drivers, writing patches for the kernel if needed (then upstream would gladly help maintain the new code.)
If Dell did all this, there would be no question on "what distro to support." EVERY distro would then support Dell! Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Red Hat, SUSE, etc. would all take the necessary steps to get the Dell models supported in their distro. After all, with the detailed Dell information on the Dell site, integrating support would be dead simple! There would then be strong community sentiment in favor of Dell. Dell would be the best hardware maker for Linux. Everybody wins.
Linux preinstalled is not all that important. The emphasis on preinstalled is the old, Windows/Mac way of thinking. If the kernel supports the hardware, then ANY distro will work with Dells! Installing any distro would take just a few clicks. Sure, some people will want preinstalled. For that, Dell could just have "Certified Linux Partners" that would preinstall whatever distro they want. Then the partner gets the support calls, not Dell. Dell would have lots of partners and sell computers, without getting end user support hassles. Again, everybody wins.
Dell must realize all this. Their IdeaStorm is nothing more than PR BS. If they really wanted to support Linux, they would just improve hardware support. Write some drivers. Post some instructions. Instead they're doing a big public song and dance. I predict they will wave this website at MS during price negotiations. MS will drop the price. Then that's all we'll hear of this preinstalled BS. But that won't preclude TRUE Linux support like I've outlined here, and hopefully that will be forthcoming.
Penny - plain text accounting
I'm assuming you're talkig about the beta version (feisty/7.04).
In a development release, I would expect huge bugs like yours on occasion.
So far, I've seen a total of 1 (one) broken app, and that's democracyplayer, which I am currently running around dredging up the bugs in, and hopefully we'll have a working package by release.
And though MP3 isin't installed by default, Feisty will set the codecs up the first time you try a MP3
"I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
I know plenty of people who are attracted to Dell because they're finally making solid machines, and because if you watch their homepage for awhile, you can occasionally find really nice sales. I like to build my own computer, but if I can get an equivalent Dell for half the price of the components, and not have to put it together myself and hope it works, I call it a win.
And I'm a Linux user.
But suppose I was an XP user. Right now, Linux can have better support for pre-Vista software via Wine -- Vista is actually broken enough that it depends on your software whether it's easier to go to Wine or to Vista. And, remember all those problems nVidia was having with Vista? I'm not sure if those are resolved yet, or what other problems there might be, but Linux support from nVidia has been rock solid -- and thus, actually better than Vista right now.
So, oddly enough, I would recommend Linux over Vista for gaming, although you're really better off with XP. I fully expect this to change, though -- Vista SP1 will probably fix every problem I've described here.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!