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Why the RIAA Doesn't Want Defendants Exonerated

RageAgainsttheBears writes "The RIAA is beginning to find itself in an awkward position. A few of its many, many lawsuits don't manage to end in success for the organization. Typically, when they decide a case isn't worth pursuing (due to targeting the wrong person or not having sufficient evidence), they simply move to drop the case. Counterclaims are usually dropped in turn, and everyone goes separate ways. But recently, judges have been deciding to allow the RIAA to drop the case, but still allowing the defendant's counterclaim through. According to the Ars Technica article: 'If Judge Miles-LaGrange issues a ruling exonerating Tallie Stubbs of infringement, it would be a worrisome trend for the RIAA. The music industry has become accustomed to having its way with those it accuses of file-sharing, quietly dropping cases it believes it can't win. It looks as though the courts may be ready to stop the record labels from just walking away from litigation when it doesn't like the direction it is taking and give defendants justice by fully exonerating them of any wrongdoing.'"

19 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. RIAA SUCKS MY FUCKING COCK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    fucking extortionists

    1. Re:RIAA SUCKS MY FUCKING COCK by Alioth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The RIAA aren't issuing any lawsuits.

      Question - the lawsuit against the 7 year old girl, is it:

      A. RIAA -v- Andersen
      or
      B. Atlantic Records -v- Andersen

      I think you'll find the latter. The record companies themselves are doing the suing. If you want to hate someone for spamming the courts with lawsuits, hate the record companies themselves. They love it that the RIAA is catching all the shit (because the RIAA doesn't sell to the public so it doesn't matter if the RIAA has a horrible reputation amongst the public). However, if people understand that the record companies are the ones spamming the courts, maybe the right people will be the object of vilification.

  2. About time by GiovanniZero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Our court system should punish frivolous lawsuits for how much it is costing the government.

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    1. Re:About time by AusIV · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Our court system should punish frivolous lawsuits for how much it is costing the government.
      Not just for how much it's costing the government, but for how much it's costing innocent defendants. I think any time the RIAA loses a case or drops a case they should have to pay legal fees for the defendants. I think you'd see a sharp drop in frivolous suits. They may still take a few cases to court, but they'll spend more time making sure the accused are actually guilty.
    2. Re:About time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not costing the government anything. The government gets all of its funding from the taxpayers. They're (we're) the ones paying.

      So they (we) should obviously boycott industry associations that resort to this sort of legal chicanery. I hear there are some great bands playing live down at the local pub...

    3. Re:About time by geekoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "... making sure the accused are actually guilty."

      I hope you mean:
      making sure the accused can't defend their innocence against the charges."

      Nobody is actually guilt of anything until the courts say so. A fine, yet critical line.

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    4. Re:About time by jovetoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. I believe one of the other cases mentioned a number on the attorney fees, something around US$6800. That would require two out of three accused to settle (at US$3750) just to cover the cost of loosing one. This does not cover their own costs.
      I wonder how many of the accused would still choose to settle... even if they are guilty.

    5. Re:About time by honkycat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ideally, the accuser would make sure the accused was actually guilty before accusing. Nobody is legally guilty until the courts say so, but actual guilt has nothing to do with legal guilt (except, perhaps, that it's easier to find someone legally guilty if they're actually guilty).

    6. Re:About time by monkey_dongle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, this has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. These are civil lawsuits, not criminal, and as such the only thing to be determined is liability.

    7. Re:About time by svvampy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would call it frivolous if the reasons I had for believing you have done me harm are obviously flimsy and constitute a gross lack of due diligence.

  3. Class Action by jmkaza · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IANAL, but it seems that if the court rules in favor of any one of the defendants, it would set a precedent that would pave the route for all previous defendants to come together and file a class action lawsuit for wrongful accusations.

    1. Re:Class Action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In this case, the defendant is innocent. There's no "precedent" here that's going to help 99.99% of the rest of the defendants, which is why they're mostly pursuing novel legal strategies like "You can't sue me, I'm a single mother!"

  4. Missing The Point by asphaltjesus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The RIAA doesn't care if a few individuals keep them in court for whatever liability they open themselves up to.

    Individuals won't have enough money to diminish the environment of fear the RIAA is trying to establish.

    The goal is to establish an environment of fear, such that most users are afraid to anything other than what the media conglomerates say is okay. Better still, what's okay today can be wrong tomorrow.

    The RIAA end game is good. Stories like this just help it along.

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    1. Re:Missing The Point by AusIV · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The RIAA end game is good. Stories like this just help it along.

      Not really. The RIAA would certainly like to create an environment of fear, however if they lose cases and have to pay the defendants legal fees, more people will be willing to go to court. They can only maintain their environment of fear if they're winning their cases or getting settlements.

  5. Legal Persons (More Equal Than Actual Persons) by Steve+B · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is an example of how corporate legal personhood is selectively interpreted to grant the positive benefits of being a person under the law while evading the negative consequences.

    For example, if an actual person filed frivolous lawsuit after frivolous lawsuit, eventually a judge would tell them that they have to quit wasting the court system's time with any more nonsense. If the RIAA were a real person, rather than a legal "person", this would have happened to it long ago.

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    /. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
  6. Re:Cross your fingers. by solevita · · Score: 4, Insightful

    even the judges
    Even the judges? Are you suggesting that the good people of Slashdot know the inner workings of court better than the judges that preside over them? Seems unlikely to me.

    I'd be more inclined to believe that judges have long known that the RIAA are a bunch of bastards and are now acting in a manner that respects the general population's regard of the RIAA as a bunch of bastards.
  7. Re:How to stop frivolous law suits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First of all, a great number of politicians are lawyers. It's doubtful that they will willingly compromise their own profession's ability to make easy money. Keep in mind that after their term in office is up, or if they fail to get reelected, many get back into practicing law.

    Second of all, such a system may make it quite difficult for smaller parties to participate in lawsuits. In the case of lawsuits that may not necessarily be frivolous, but that are near enough to that border line, lawyers may demand that the client cover any expenses if those lawyers are suspended or disbarred. This is something that a client without vast financial resources would likely not be able to afford. So soon enough the only people who will have the resources to sue are corporations or industry associations. We end up with the problem we have now, but without normal people having the ability to fight back.

  8. Re:How to stop frivolous law suits by NIckGorton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I have a natural aversion to lawyers as a physician... this kind of suggestion is about as useful as the idea of revoking the license of physicians who lose a malpractice lawsuit. It might seem like a way to prevent errors, but its not going to work out the way you think.

    Doing so in either case will have a lot of consequences that we would all not like:

    1) Other clients/patients of the guy who loses his licensure will suffer the loss of the relationship and professional services they get. You might think that no one would want to see a lawyer or doctor who had lost a malpractice case, but if that was the case the majority of physicians in the US would not be practicing today.

    2) Every professional by virtue of being a human being will make honest mistakes. Punishing single mistakes by completely destroying that professional's ability to practice will lead to a shortage of people willing to enter that field as well as a shortage of people willing to take the difficult cases in that field. (I can tell you I would never have entered Emergency Medicine where I cannot choose who I will and won't see had this been the case.)

    3) If you are defending your own ability to practice (and perhaps your children's livelihood) you are going to go to extremes in order to protect it. If I was under this kind of pressure the amount of defensive medicine I (and every other physician) practice would go through the roof meaning increased costs, unnecessary tests, unnecessary antibiotics, etc. I suspect the same would be the case for lawyers if you pressed them to that extreme.

    So while it may seem like it would help to levy draconian punishments for medical or legal malpractice, if you have that sort of system, you won't be happy with the results.

    That doesn't mean that you should not use those kind of extreme punishments against professionals who are habitual douchebags. It also doesn't mean you should not levy punishments for errors. But it does mean that you shouldn't punish people innocent of any wrongdoing (the lawyer's other clients) and you should not extract unreasonable punishments for common mistakes.

    Nick

  9. Re:How to stop frivolous law suits by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, making it harder to start a lawsuit is definitely worse than alternative solutions. You've got your heart in the right place, no doubt, but all you're going to get is less lawsuits, period. Not just less frivolous lawsuits, less lawsuits, which means more people suffering who could have sued but didn't, because of the price just to start.

    I'd rather have the plaintiff pay all legal expenses if he loses. NOt the defendant, just the plaintiff. The defendant has to respond or he gets summary judgement against him. Then, people who really want to fight can theoretically find a lawyer willing to take the case (assuming they have a case to begin with).

    It's not as good as the goal you want, but if there's anything I've learned programming, it's that incremental change is the path to success, not sweeping change. Make little changes and test them.

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