OLPC Manufacturer to Sell $200 Laptop On Open Market

srinravi writes "ArsTechnica reports that Quanta, the company manufacturing the XO laptops, has plans to begin selling low-cost budget mobile computers for $200 later this year. 'According to Quanta president Michael Wang, the company plans to leverage the underlying technologies associated with OLPC's XO laptop to produce laptop computers that are significantly less expensive than conventional laptops.' While OLPC plans to sell the laptops in bulk to governments, which will then distribute the hardware to school children, the XO computer itself is not for sale on the open market. These XO-like commercial devices are still something of an unknown, but it has been announced they'll be using Open Source software."

Comments

They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[sethstorm]

For such a device, they sure are wanting to not release it - when that could be a good way to fund such devices. Is there some sort of problem with quality at that kind of mass amount?

Re:They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[siriuskase]

Marketing costs, distribution costs, etc.

While they may have figured out how to market and distribute to the governments that are their primary customers, they may not want to deal with the private market for some reason. Smaller purchase quantities comes to mind. But, you'd think they could hire someone else to market and distribute.

Like you suggest, it might be that the product wouldn't hold up too well under the scrutiny of knowledgeable customers in a competitive marketplace. The original product is intended for people who know nothing about compuerts and don't know anyone else who knows anything about computers.

Re:They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The same thing that Internet appliances did to the desktop market. 90% of all people use their PC for web and email. Yet internet appliances are so hated they all failed miserably.

Re:They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[Otter]

Nothing about this project makes any sense. They won't sell the hardware at a profit to raise funding or create economy of scale. They don't attempt to get the platform into the hands of developers who might be able to develop applications, instead of relying on giving compilers to children who have never seen a computer before. My suspicion is that they simply can't make them at the price/number points they keep claiming, but who knows?

By the way, if any of the MIT people involved with this project have an explanation, drop a message in one of my JE's and I'll be delighted to walk over and be set straight.

Re:They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[CastrTroy]

They do have VMWare images you can run, although this isn't the same, as you wouldn't know how it runs on the actual hardware, I'm sure that it would help out quite a bit with developing applications.

Re:They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[krasni_bor]

1) OLPC seems to have all the funds they need right now.
2) If the project works at all they will have huge economies of scale just selling to governments.
3) It is not difficult to get a development machine, if you get involved and write a little code FIRST (using an emulator, etc.).
4) Clearly, Quanta thinks they will be able to make them at scale and make even more than OLPC demands, based on this announcement.

Re:They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[CastrTroy]

That's because they usually either come with a monthly service fee or cost as much as a real computer. Sell someone an internet appliance that's significantly cheaper than a computer, and doesn't have a monthly fee, and I think you'll be able to see quite a few units. I would love a laptop that only cost $200. That's cheaper than most PDAs you see on the market now.

Re:They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[suggsjc]

Ahh, I've got mod points that I want to use, but I just...can't...stop...typing.

Anyway, first marketing costs? There are people practically begging to get these devices...and even willing to pay more than the "targeted" cost of ~$100. So, if there was ever a case of a product selling itself, then this is it.

Distribution costs are understandable. But at the same time, they have been saying that they won't take orders of less than a million (isn't that right?). So, it isn't necessarily a supply problem...that is if they could actually meet those demands. So couple that with the above paragraph and it seems like there would be at least one millionaire out there that would see this enormous opportunity to snap up a million or so of these and resell for a handsome profit.

All of this makes me casually raise an eyebrow. There are a couple of floating thoughts. First, maybe they feel like this is a *special* project and so only *special* (read: people in 3rd world countries) should get them. Second, (which the parent mentioned) is that maybe they aren't as high quality as us *non-special* (read: spoiled developed nation brats) would demand, and therefore wouldn't even sell in the first place. Third, (my own little thought) is that there are some interesting politics happening behind closed doors.

To the first, I say "get off your high horse" sell them at a markup and re-invest your profits in something you deem worthwhile.
To the second, I say "don't knock it till you (or some other schmuck) tries it". There is practically no potential for loss here. If somebody wants to purchase 1 million units, take their money and run...after you give them the laptops that is.
To the third I say, well actually I have nothing to say since I have no idea is this is the case or what is being said behind those closed doors.

I hope this project succeeds just as much as the next (excluding Dell, HP, Intel, etc shareholders) person. But let's not count any chickens (or laptops) before they hatch.

Re:They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[bfields]

For such a device, they sure are wanting to not release it - when that could be a good way to fund such devices.

Maybe, maybe not. I imagine a lot of geeks are in the same boat as me--I listen to the neat stuff they're doing with it, look at the pictures, and say "OMG it's adorable! I MUST HAVE one!" But when it came time to actually plop down my $200 (or whatever) I might take a closer look at the specs, listen to what other users had to say about it, and say: ya know, this doesn't really make sense for me.

So I wonder if a project so targetted at a particular audience would really be as succesfull with the geek market as the Slashdot comments would suggest.

And then there's all the trouble of distributing the thing, and heck, it isn't even done yet, is it? Aren't they still just working with the first sample units and gearing up pilots and stuff?

Well, it'll be interesting to watch what happens in any case.

Re:They are very insistent on NOT releasing it?

[couchslug]

It should not be crippled either, or it will end up among the Ipaq-tastic curiosities on the I-Appliance BBS:

http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/Ult raBoard.pl?Session=

I'll buy two with ONE requirement.

[Lumpy]

Mine come WITHOUT the hacking locks they have in place. I will want to replace their OS with something that is my own and the current iteration does not allow that.

Re:I'll buy two with ONE requirement.

[Maximum Prophet]

Well, yeah, I imagine, that would make the thing sell much better. A sub $200 laptop would be an excellent process control computer for simple things like temperature control, CNC, weather monitoring, etc. Having a standard, plug and play platform would be very useful. Even single board computers without monitors or power supplies can cost much more than $200.

Should sell well

[Maximum Prophet]

People still use and support the Tandy Model 100 http://www.club100.org/. AFAIR, it cost more than $200 when it was new, adjusting for inflation.

Re:Should sell well

[Lumpy]

In fact Tandy 100 and 102's still go for a premium. I recently sold both my 102's for well over $100.00 each. way more than I expected.

Re:Should sell well

[OECD]

Does anyone nowadays make a small computer with a decent sized keyboard and without a big flippy screen?

Take a look at AlphaSmart's portable computers. The Neo goes for $250 and is roughly equivalent to a Model 100.

Cost of distribution and sales

[PIPBoy3000]

I think part of the reason the $200 laptop costs $200 is that they're selling them in bulk to governments. It's then up to the government to distribute it appropriately. If you're doing it yourself, you've got to pay for the distribution infrastructure yourself, which gets tacked on to the cost of the $200 laptop. Now, these days with Amazon and Dell, you can do pretty good at minimizing these costs, but it'll still make it more expensive.

If that ends up bringing the cost of the laptop into the $300-$400 range, you're suddenly competing with the likes of Dell and other low-cost laptop manufacturers.

Re:Cost of distribution and sales

[An Onerous Coward]

Why are you calling it "the $200 laptop?" The OLPC project has always had a target of $100/laptop. If you're using the phrase to refer to the OLPC's laptops, you're wrong. If you're using it simply to refer to $200 laptops in general, then you're being tautological. A $200 laptop is a $200 laptop because it's a laptop that is selling for $200.

Read the article. Or the summary at the very least. The manufacturer tasked with building the laptops for the OLPC project has simply decided that it can use its experience to offer a very similar piece of hardware to the public at a low price. It's not the OLPC laptop, and it's not the much hoped for "buy one for $200 and a kid in Rwanda gets one free" deal that's been suggested. There's no reason to think that these laptops will be sold in bulk to governments.

Re:Cost of distribution and sales

[Skreems]

The point of the OLPC project isn't just to train children to enter a technical workforce. It's to bring the benefits of digital technology to underdeveloped nations, presumably in the hopes that it will push a generation to learn and advance faster than they could otherwise.

Sans kill switch?

[OglinTatas]

I would certainly be interested, if I knew that it did not include a kill switch which would allow my government or anyone to destroy it on a whim. linky

I hope they do it

[arivanov]

I know at least several cases where people working on medical diagnostics projects have tried to get their hand on the OLPC kit for the purposes of field medical lab automation and have been told to sod off.

There is a long list of diagnostic technologies which require a computer for analysing data in the field. At the moment this means using either a specialised system or a commercial ruggedized portable. In either case the overall bill for a small field lab goes into the many 1000$ range which makes this technology prohibitive for mass deployment. OLPC class hardware would have been the perfect replacement bringing the cost down into a range which will make it affordable.

So if the OLPC gets sidelined and the same kit is available commercially, personally I would give one big cheer. This will mean that people like Medicines sans Frontiers will finally be able to have proper diagnostic (and medical records) kit anywhere they go, no matter how in the middle of nowhere it is.

Re:Here's an idea

[Anonymous Coward]

The goal of the OLPC project is education. These computers will make the world of information available to those who would otherwise have been limited to their indigent backgrounds. Cleaning their water for them is great, cleaning their water for them and teaching them how to clean their own water is even better. You're not going to make any real progress in the third world until it has been saturated by education.

Re:They seem firm in their patronizing pity

[Lumpy]

Moreover, middle class people in the US should be grateful at having to spend $2000 for a VistaBloat machine because, well that's the White Man's Burden.

if you spend that much on a windows laptop then you sir are a foaming at the mouth moron. I bought a vista machine (and erased the OS as soon as I got it) for $699 this is a Dual core speed demon that plays doom3 nicely. I got it from a secret online store..... Dell.com

Distribution Control

[petermmcc]

Am I the only who keeps tabs on this project who worries that the OLPC OX laptops are going to end up in the hands of people who want them as toys or cheap low-cost laptops? Call me cynical but selling these things to governments in Third World countries and expecting the distribution to be done in an honest and ethical way so that every single one ends up in the hands of a deserving child seems hopelessly naive to me. What safeguards are in place to prevent some corrupt government bureaucrat from doling them out to political cronies, black marketeers or any other undeserving party (for financial gain or not) and then just claiming that they have turned up missing or that they never got them and that they need more?

It makes sense to me to sell them outright to the general public but make them pay a fair market price to fund the distribution system so that real controls are in place to make sure that these things aren't sold in flea markets or used for nefarious purposes. I mean the intentions of OLPC are very honorable from an idealistic viewpoint- I'm just very worried that these things in the real world are just going to be too valuable to get passed down to the distribution chain to their intended recipients. We're sending what are essentially consumer electronic toys in to the heart of the poorest places on the planet and expecting that the people in control of these regions won't try to scheme and maneuver this project for personal financial or political gain. To prevent that real controls need to be in place and those controls can only be provided with a distribution system that is well funded. The funding should come from the people who want to buy these things as personal toys with the added benefit that there then will be less incentive for these things to end up on the black market.

Re:Distribution Control

[Maximum Prophet]

Mod parent up. He's absolutely right.

Allowing these to be sold by Amazon for $200, will disincentivize governments from buying them for $100 and trying to sell in bulk at a profit. If you know you can get a clean machine for $200 are you going to pay $100 + $n for a "dirty" machine? (where $n is large enough to make it worth their hassle)

Re:Distribution Control

[Acer500]

Am I the only who keeps tabs on this project who worries that the OLPC OX laptops are going to end up in the hands of people who want them as toys or cheap low-cost laptops? Call me cynical but selling these things to governments in Third World countries and expecting the distribution to be done in an honest and ethical way so that every single one ends up in the hands of a deserving child seems hopelessly naive to me.
I live in Uruguay, one of the early adopters of the OLPC program. I know it's tough to believe, but although our governments are corrupt and inefficient, we do have a somewhat working democracy, and this is one of the "hot" issues where the opposition (and people like myself) will be keeping close tabs on the government, which will probably ensure honest distribution.

Believe me, the opposition would like nothing better than a scandal involving this (it would slur the current governing party, which is a frontrunner for the next elections, plus it involves stealing from children so it would be doubly harmful), while the current government would tout it as a huge archievement and will use it as PR whenever it can ("we delivered a computer to every child in the country!!!").

What safeguards are in place to prevent some corrupt government bureaucrat from doling them out to political cronies, black marketeers or any other undeserving party (for financial gain or not) and then just claiming that they have turned up missing or that they never got them and that they need more?
Besides the political issue, there's also a mostly free press in Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil. Here we have an investigative TV show which likes to air cases like government officials using public cars, offices, etc. for private use, bribery, etc. and there are similar ones in Argentina and probably Brazil. It would be a huge coup (and ratings boost) to uncover such a case.

I have more faith in our public institutions and our press than I currently have for US press and institutions (see: US elections).

PCs like cell phones?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

The price of a basic PC, with just enough power to do browsing, email, a little bit of photoshop and screen shows and minor word processing has come under 200$ at bulk price. It is not inconceivable that some DSL/broadband company would not give it away for a two year broadband contract. Google has bought so much of capactity in the dark fibers, that it can become a viable broadband provider and give away PCs for free. And Google is also gaining valuable experience running metro area size WiFi network in Cupertino. Further Google has to negate the fundamental advantage MSFT has, that is ever changing standards, comaptibility issues.

Roll it all into one, you should expect GooglePC/BroadBand (beta ofcourse) sometime soon. If the hardward price drops far enough it can even sustain itself giving away the hardware and live on advertisements alone!

Re:PCs like cell phones?

[uab21]

The price of hardware has dropped enough that you can have a laptop, while previously it was a desktop. With modern software, the functional ability of the machines are the same compared to the less demanding software of the time. I call that a wash.

Why does everyone assume that all Google's dark fiber is for us? Google has rather large bandwidth requirements, which only get larger, and they are focused on grid type distributed processing for their business. That dark fiber could be there as their insurance against being held up by the backbone providers they have/will piss off. The market for bargain basement systems is small (how many internet appliances did you buy when they came out?), why should they risk it? Besides, the cell phone industry is the *last* industry I would like to emulate - Verizon gives me a free/reduced phone and then chips away at what it's capabilities are after the fact with software updates so that BitPim can't run - Yeah - Google needs to link themselves with that type of behavior in people's minds.

Re:Here's an idea

[Speare]

Of course they won't because a child without food or clean drinking water really gets a huge benefit out of a laptop or the support infrastructure to support it.

I know it might blow your mind, but there really are a lot of kids who live in areas that are somewhere BETWEEN the relative wealth levels of "must buy an iPod for my dog" and "must steal more cardboard for the roof". The XO isn't going to help a kid who can't lift her malnourished bones off the hardscrabble. The XO is going to help a kid who would have to travel 10mi to the nearest well-stocked library.

The cellphone has become a major boon for farmers in several countries-- they can call ahead and negotiate their crop's value before spending the resources to haul perishable product to an uninterested market. The XO may have other "game changing" advantages. It will only have the chance to make a difference if the rich people quit naysaying every last little nit based on their own shortsightedness.

Re:They seem firm in their patronizing pity

[jamiethehutt]

Otherwise I guess we can go out and buy a bunch of old used laptops for $200-400 each and put Ubuntu on them and tell OLPC to got jump in the lake.

I want a OLPC. An old laptop will not be as compact, will not be as robust, will not have as much battery life, will not have a nippy solid state disk and will not have nearly as good a screen for reading on. The old laptop probably wont have wireless and probably wont have excellent linux support, in fact it's likely to have some compatibility problems. Also I think the OLPC, or at least the green one, looks pretty funky...

It's a pretty clear choice for me.

Re:They seem firm in their patronizing pity

[morgan_greywolf]

The difference here is that the poor people in the U.S. (defined as any household below the official poverty line (~$25K/year)) are rich and highly-educated compared to the poor goat farmers in Kenya.

How to lift children out of poverty.

[supersnail]

1. Make nice little $200 Laptop.
2. Announce to Geeks around the world "You cant have one".
3. Give Laptop to poor child.
4. Poor child puts laptop on e-bay.
5. Geeks gets kool laptop.
6. Child no longer poor.

Hmmm

[Anon-Admin]

I have watched the OLPC for some time. As time goes by, It seems like less of a deal. I just picked up a nice Compaq with a 15" wide screen, 512 meg of memory, 802.11 card etc. At Best Buy it was $350. By the time they get the OLPC out the door, normal low end laptops will be in the $200 range.

Re:Here's an idea

[Peter Trepan]

The XO is going to help a kid who would have to travel 10mi to the nearest well-stocked library.

In the rural U.S. community where I grew up, it was in fact 10 miles to the nearest well-stocked library.

OLPC not for sale, not a company

[capseed]

Note that Quanta's mobile laptop, even if the underlying hardware and most of the software are the same, is NOT the OLPC machine. AFAIK OLPC has always wanted their project to exist outside of commercial markets. One of the main reasons for this was to help prevent a black market trade in these machines. If you have an XO, and you are not a child registered to use it, it will be very obvious that it is stolen.

As far as the governments taking the laptops and doing something evil or keeping them from their intended users, does anybody know how far OLPC is going to step in with the education and support issues? Negroponte has said many many many times that OLPC is not a hardware project, it is an education project based on decades of research with children and computers. It would seem odd if they didn't send their own people out in the field to provide support and guidance to the teachers and students who get to experience the XO. I would love to be one of them!

Summary:
Quanta != OLPC
OLPC != hardware project

Re:Here's an idea

[Russ Nelson]

Of course they won't because a child without food or clean drinking water really gets a huge benefit out of a laptop

The government is already buying books for these kids, to the tune of about $20/year. Or not, in which case you can be sure they're NOT going to buy laptops. But if they are, then they convert the textbook into an ebook. Use of the laptop as an ebook pays for itself ... and then there's everything else you *might* do with it. Even if the teachers don't incorporate it into the curriculum, it's still worth doing.

Or are you suggesting that governments shouldn't provide a free education for their children? That's an idea worthy of consideration, but I suspect it's one you disagree with.

Re:Here's an idea

[rbanffy]

I can't quite understand why people insist in the misconception that these computers are for those who face terminal misery.

These computers are not for starving children. We have to reach those by other means. What they aim is to provide better education for less (printing and shipping good books is very expensive) so that more money can be used in some other projects like bringing food and water to populations in need, with the added bonus of a better educated population for what amounts to essentially no additional money spent.

I live in a third world country and I would have to drive (with my carbon-neutral ethanol-running car) about five hundred kilometers to be face to face with someone who has no access to food, water, basic healthcare or a decent social security network. And, even in the poorest parts of the country, most of those really do have access to these basic services, but nobody ever told them how to get them.

We have to deal with the most basic human problems with other tools. These computers are the tools governments will use to create the other tools, whatever shape they happen to take.

Re:Special Charity Editions

[magarity]

Can I pay $50 more and have a special "OLPC Sponsor" logo etched into the case
 
Alas, I think you'll find that custom etching will run you more than $50. Still, this idea has some merit. They've said though, and it makes sense, that the reason they won't sell the OLPC machine is because as soon as there is a legit market for the things there will be nefarious individuals who will procede to steal the donated ones and recycle them back into the sale channel.

Re:They seem firm in their patronizing pity

[Oktober Sunset]

No, they're goatherds, shepherds herd sheep.

Re:Thailand rejects the OLPC project

[Russ Nelson]

I heard it is very poor quality.

.... and I heard that you're pretty stupid.

But perhaps neither of us should repeat heresay? I have one; it's very well made. Anyway, it was Koffi Annan who broke the crank, not Nelson Mandela. The crank was a bad idea anyway since children can't generate enough power with their hands. That's why kids' bikes have footbrakes, not handbrakes. So the human power supply will probably be more like a yo-yo. You could just pull on the string, or tie it to a board and use your foot. Takes any DC voltage between 10 and 20 volts, so there's all sorts of possibilities. Micro-hydro, or solar, or human powered, or you put your dog on a tredle (don't laugh, that's an old farmer trick).

Simputer

[vivek7006]

Remember Simputer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simputer/ ?

By the time it was released, it was overpriced and underwhelming. I wont be surprised is this device meets the same fate.

Subsidize sales to poor countries

[HangingChad]

I'd pay $250.00 for one and they could take that extra $50.00 and use it to subsidize the cost of sending them to really poor countries and villages.

Why are they so fricking insistent on not selling them retail? I'd pay a lot to be able to whip out a bright green laptop and hand-crank it in the middle of a meeting. Don't mind me, please have your sales droid prattle on incessantly as if I weren't even here.

Intel Classmate PC, Personal Internet Computer

[davidwr]

Two other machines vying for the low-end space include:

Intel Classmate PC

Data Evolution Holdings' Personal Internet Communicator

Support costs

[tverbeek]

What about support costs? A small number of governments and NGOs are a lot less work to deal with than potentially tens of thousands of consumers.

Re:Thailand rejects the OLPC project

[Russ Nelson]

Are you kidding me?

I would ask "Are you stupid?" but you've proven it adequately. You're thinking about this COMPLETELY wrong. Don't think of it has a "laptop". Think of it as "electronic book" with keyboard, touchpad, wifi, camera, usb slots, microphone, speakers, 400MBytes of free storage for book, convenient carrying handle, day-and-night screen, oh, and it also runs Python and a word processor and games. If you look at it that way, and then compare it to the money they're ALREADY spending on schoolbooks, you'll find that it STARTS OFF by saving money. The laptop is free once you buy the electronic book.

If you want to be a real bleeding heart, think of the blind children who will have ON PAR access to the SAME TEXTBOOKS as their sighted peers. Think of the children!

If you compare it to a laptop, well, that's only your first mistake. You can only (and do, enthusiastically) go downhill from there.