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A Chinese Virtual Currency Challenges the Yuan

Radon360 writes "A Wall Street Journal article reports that China's fastest-rising currency isn't the yuan. It's the QQ coin — online play money created by marketers to sell such things as virtual flowers for instant-message buddies, cellphone ringtones and magical swords for online games. In recent weeks, the QQ coin's real-world value has risen as much as 70%. It's the most extreme case of a so-called virtual currency blurring the boundaries between the online and real worlds — and challenging legal limits. A Chinese Internet company called Tencent Holdings Ltd. designed the payment system in 2002 to allow its 233 million regular registered users to shop for treats in its virtual world. Virtual currencies are in use in many countries — but nowhere have they taken root more deeply than in China."

20 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. Is anyone else here thinking about Tulips? by cyborg_zx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder how long before we see future's markets in virtual worlds...

  2. tap the vein by bigwavejas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    converting real money to virtual money is a huge business. look at all the people spending $100 dollars for some World of Warcraft gold for their level 70 mount or whatever. there's a fine line between hobby and sickness.

    --
    "Simplify, simplify, simplify!" Thoreau
    1. Re:tap the vein by 3p1ph4ny · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's interesting you say that. I'm a gamer, but play mostly FPS games so I don't do the whole online currency thing.

      I am, however, an avid outdoorsman. I probably have spent well over $10,000 if you combine my bikes, backpack & related gear (camp stove, etc.), sleeping bags, expidition food costs, gas getting there or whatever else. $100 seems pretty damn cheap for a hobby to me.

  3. In a sense... by mycroft822 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Aren't all currencies virtual anyway? Does it matter that one can be printed on paper and one can't? I know there is more to it than just that, but as long as people deem it as valuable does it matter?

    1. Re:In a sense... by rumplet · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is fiat currency backed by gold then?

    2. Re:In a sense... by TerranFury · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sarcasm, I assume? Modern currencies generally are not backed by precious metals at all. And in history, things besides gold have been used: the UK's pound used to be backed by silver before it was backed by gold (before it stopped being backed by anything at all), and there were gold-vs-silver debates (the details of which I've forgotten) in American history too.

      Really, what's the significance of gold? What good would it do you or anyone else? Why does it have value? It's just mutual agreement and the faith that it has a value that gives it its value.

      I could even imagine some sort of public-key cryptographic scheme used to assign value to magic numbers... Think Cryptonomicon.

    3. Re:In a sense... by Some_Llama · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Really, what's the significance of gold? What good would it do you or anyone else? Why does it have value? "

      Because there is a finite amount of Gold, attempts to make gold (until recently it seems) have always failed, even though the possibility of making gold is now feasible it is cost prohibitive.

      This is why there wasn't a sand standard, or water standard... Precious metals are finite (without space exploration at least).

    4. Re:In a sense... by norton_I · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For a monetary standard to be useful, it has to be both scarce AND widely desired. Spent nuclear power pellets are extremely rare, but almost nobody wants them so they would make a lousy currency.

      One advantage of fiat money (I am not saying there aren't disadvantages) is that if suppliers of a few commodoties agree it has value, it essentially becomes backed by all of them. With a standard based on rare metals, you are subject to market collapse on discovery of large amounts of the ore. This happened somewhat with silver. Had aluminum ever been used as a monetary standard, it would have collapsed when electrolytic process for reducing aluminum ore was found. In a fiat money system, the price of those metals will drop when the supply becomes large, but it will not affect the rest of the economy as much.

  4. Isn't all currency virtual? by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Currency is just an agreement on a medium to symbolize value. A coin or a bill is just a piece of paper or metal, just as bits on a server are equally mundane until someone agrees they mean something more.

    So, except for the legislative issues, is there really a fundamental difference?

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    .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    1. Re:Isn't all currency virtual? by Xzzy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And it'll probably be a developer who's got some unmonitored access to the database and update privileges.

      Difference between MMO money and real world money is that there is nothing physical backing the MMO money. I admit, one could argue real world money is poorly backed itself, but at least they got some amount of gold stashed away somewhere.

      Virtual money though? It's nothing but a mysql column.

  5. Aren't most currencies virtual these days? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    They have little intrinsic value and few are backed by anything other than government hot air.

    1. Re:Aren't most currencies virtual these days? by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      THey're backed by the same thing everything, including gold, was backed by- the general population's willingness to accept it in trade. As long as I know people will take little bits of green paper, they continue to have value. Its no more silly than trading around little bits of yellow metal. Both are mutually agreed mediums of exchange.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  6. Gold Standard by Frankie70 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That is incorrect, currency has to be backed by gold.

    No. It doesn't have to be.
    Post World War 2, Gold standard was replaced by the Bretton
    Wood Monetory system, which was also based on Gold Reserves.

    However, the US (under Nixon) totally shut off gold based
    currency in 1971. Very few currencies are gold backed
    currently.

  7. Borrow "funds" then print and payback + interest by Dareth · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Read up on the Federal Reserve Bank.

    If that doesn't shake your faith in US currency, nothing will.

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  8. Not likely. by Hemogoblin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As the article mentions (yes I did read it), there are already market-makers of a sort for the QQ currency. Essentially, they convert QQ dollars to yuan and back. Like all market-makers, I assume they charge a spread that allows them to earn a small percentage on each transaction.

    Clearly, the barrier to development of this virtual currency market is that the Chinese Government (or any other government for that matter) doesn't want it. There are a few reasons, but the most obvious are loss of control, dilution of "real" currency, and inadequate backing of the currency. For example, the Chinese government has control over the supply of yuan (they print it), and back the yuan's value. QQ coins on the other hand, are only "real" in the sense that Tencent allows you buy things with them. While the Chinese government will always support the yuan, Tencent can't guarantee the QQ will always have value. If Tencent went bust, or had an employee suddenly issue billions of QQ dollars, the value of the currency would plummet.

    Given the above, this currency will never be allowed to exist peacefully with the yuan. It will never be used for big business to business transactions, so we'll never see specialized markets for lending or futures.

  9. The main difference being by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Gold has intrinsic scarcity. Paper doesn't. BTW, the US government have printed, 8 trillion dollars worth of paper which is currently being held off the market by national reserves.

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  10. Who matters, not What by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If virtual currency was backed by a government, it would be currency. But backing by a company, is different and as pointed out by the other responses to your post, inherently more risky.

    In many ways I only deal with virtual currency by using my debit card. Virtual in the sense that I never actually saw that amount of federal reserve notes. However, I will not, ever use any virtual currency that is not backed by a real government with a sound monetary policy.

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    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
  11. Re:Nope! All currency is a commodity... by Colin+Smith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I am marooned on an island, I can eat bread. The money is useless. Cobalt is a commodity, how much use would that be marooned on an island?

    The intrinsic value of money is it's market value, which is why people get so confused over it's nature. It's still a commodity.

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  12. Re:You haven't been to Canada have you by rainman_bc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem is that virtual currencies such as the QQ dollar are NOT traded on a currency market, and never will be.

    Just to point out that the QQ dollar is worth what people will pay for it. Big deal if it isn't officially traded - the market is there and it's already being traded.

    Since the virtual currency will never be traded on an open market, its impossible to value your assets correctly

    Not true - it may trade at a discount because it's traded in a subordinate market, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to value it correctly.

    Recall paper money came to be as a more portable way to carry gold. This electronic currency is there to facilitate online transactions that otherwise couldn't occur because of Chinese restrictions.

    Funny how the market always finds a way.

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    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  13. Re:Nope! All currency is a commodity... by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What is it about being a commodity implies money cannot be a medium to symbolize value? OK... It can symbolize anything you want it to. It can symbolize good/evil/philanthropy or whatever, you can make anything a symbol of anything but that's meaning which you are applying to it, it isn't meaning which is inherent in it's nature.

    Money isn't inherently a symbol of value, the symbolisation of it in that way is something people add, and are encouraged to add by governments and banks. It's basic nature is that of a commodity; If everyone has a million dollars, then a million dollars is worthless.

    Creating more coffee does create value Does it? We have wine lakes in France. Wine which nobody wants. They're turning it into ethanol to get rid of it, they can't sell it.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5253006.st m

    All value comes from demand, if there is none then no matter the supply it's worthless. In general, money always has a high demand because it can be easily traded for any other item but even that demand is satiable.

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