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Cuban v. EFF lawyer on YouTube, DMCA
hamtaro writes "Mark Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks and outspoken activist on copyright issues, exchanged some words with an EFF lawyer at this year's EFF 'Pioneer Awards'. The awards, held earlier this week, saw a heated discussion ensue about YouTube. Apparently Cuban feels that 'everyone knows' that YouTube is host to tons of infringing content and therefore it should be exempt from DMCA protections. You read that right: the EFF, defending the DMCA against Mark Cuban. 'Cuban is an interesting spokesman for copyright concerns since he has a broad perspective; as the owner of HDNet, he worries about having his content given away for free without his consent, but he's also someone who has funded EFF campaigns in the past, especially when the group defended Grokster's claim to legality. One of the strangest aspects of the debate was seeing an EFF lawyer defend the DMCA, which usually comes in for a drubbing due to its anti-circumvention provision. But von Lohmann told Ars Technica after the debate that the safe harbor section has actually allowed plenty of businesses to flourish that might otherwise have been mired in legal problems, and that it has generally worked well.'"
That's absolutely ridiculous. YouTube has certainly complied with the guidelines prescribed to qualify for safe harbor (which protects service providers from copyright liability if they follow certain rules). They've even taken down content at the request of content-owners. Wether or not people "know that YouTube hosts infringing material," it doesn't matter. YouTube users post infringing content, YouTube the organization does not. And everyone also knows that there is a plethora of original, non-infringing material on YouTube as well.
The whole point of the safe harbor provision is that service providers should get a warning and be allowed to remove infringing content that users post. If hosting infringing content posted by your users meant you were no longer protected the provision would be worthless!
Visualize the world of wine
I've never heard of the "everybody knows" legal standards of evidence or applicability. Must be that new Law 2.0 I keep hearing about.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Everytime some slashdot user makes a libelous post someone should sue Slashdot in a libel suit. We also need better controls on e-mail because people could be sending copyrighted images to their friends. If e-mail providers can't get this under control they should be sued for allowing people to move that traffic on their network.
Lets not leave out ISP's, lots of them allow their pipes to be used by people stealing content!! Sue them too!!
Good idea!
Mod me up, mod me down, do your worst you modding clown.
For those of you keeping count, that's reason 2.02x10^63 + 1 to dislike Cuban.
Anyone high-profile who expresses opinions is going to be hated by half the people. I respect the fact that he doesn't care what you think to muzzle himself, unlike most people. Also unlike most people, he can actually back up what he thinks with reasoning. One can certainly disagree with his conclusions, but at least it's thought out.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
What's really interesting is that if Google wins and sets a precedent, the floodgates are open for "YouTune.com". Anyone can upload any MP3 they like. Anyone can download any MP3 they like. Any MP3 that infringes on a copyright can be removed with a well-formed DMCA-compliant takedown request. It'll be like Napster, except that it'll have the speed of centralized server storage.
Once upon a time, web hosting cost a small fortune in setup and bandwidth charges, and having one's website nuked by a DMCAgram was a considerable financial disincentive...
Today, Google makes more millipennies off the banner ads on YouTube.com than the micropennies it costs to stream, repeatedly, the same 6-7-megabyte .flv Flash video file, to the same person, every time the user wants to watch it.
Imagine how many trillions of millipennies Google could make by letting millions of users upload their MP3 collections. Sure, each one might cost a few millipennies to remove when the DMCAgrams come in, but as long as the DMCAgrams cost a few dollars each for the MAFIAA (Music And Film Associations of America) to produce, Google will handily win the battle of attrition.
That's the short run. In the long run, MAFIAA will of course attempt to purchase new laws to protect its obsolete business model, but with their coffers drained from filing millions of DMCAgrams, and Google's coffers bursting with fresh ad revenue (from hosting content uploaded by YouTube and YouTune users during the day or two between its upload and DMCA-compliant removal), Google will finally have a fighting chance to purchase its own laws.
Sure, MAFIAA has an advantage in that your average Senator or Congressman (or even Slashdotter!) would rather snort a line of cocaine from between Titney's Pears than from Sergei's Brim, but ultimately it's all about the money. With the kind of money Google could offer them, a politician could simply buy Titney outright, and have enough left over for a whole fracking cocaine plantation.
To be what the EFF is, they have to take positions on issues that might not seem moderate or be popular.
First- they have to start working on issues long before most people even know that a technology exists- things that are obscure, not popular, so less likely to bring in vast numbers of new members.
Second- they'll work on the civil liberties implications of what might seem like fine technology- this certainly can make them unpopular.
Third- they sue corporations, which obviously isn't going to help with corporate donations. (which is why the EFF needs memberships, they're a small, non-profit, member-based organization, even though all their cases might make them seem much larger. Grants like the one that got them into the secret EU TV DRM meetings are the exception.)
Fourth- the defendants they get aren't necessarily going to be angelic posterboys. Governments or corporations (think RIAA) will always try to set precedents with the ugliest and least sympathetic cases first. i.e.The RIAA didn't start with grandmas and orphans, they started with rowdy-seeming college students.
If you look at the ten major areas where they work:
How likely is it that a techie (or anyone) will agree with 100% of all 10 areas? (Pretty unlikely, because I don't think you'd get 100% agreement even by the EFF's people themselves.) As one example, Hamidi v Intel can't be called a crowd pleaser here. And that the EFF focuses on the collateral damage to free speech caused by some anti-spam technologies isn't popular- it's probably their Skokie march- but it follows from their core work.