Kids 'Unaffected By Game Violence' Says Study

Via Game|Life, an article in the Syndey Morning Herald discusses a new study indicating most children are unaffected by videogame violence. Though the study did indicate that children already predisposed to violence or neurotic behavior were over-stimulated by these games, most children showed no difference in behavior as a result of game play. "The study monitored the behavior of children from 10 schools in eastern and southern metropolitan Melbourne before and after playing the violent video game Quake II for 20 minutes, Swinburne's Professor Grant Devilly said. Prof Devilly said only children predisposed to aggression and more reactive to their environments changed their behavior after playing and of those only some showed more aggression."

Comments

there might be a difference

[otacon]

Q2 is not realistic when compared to new versions of Grand Theft Auto or anything from the current generation, or last gen for that matter...I wonder if brutal street slayings show any difference versus unrealistic circa 1997 FPS's

Re:there might be a difference

[voice_of_all_reason]

Hey, that's not funny. A grue killed my whole family.

Re:there might be a difference

[Opportunist]

Considering the games I've been playing since I was 10, and if it had only a percent impact in my real life, I'd be considered a mass murderer and war criminal by now. Currently I'm holding the title of Commisaire (or however it may be spelled) in BF2142. I'd wager I might have killed about 10,000 virtual people by now, a lot of them using mines, slitting a few throats with a knife in cold blood, and employing other very nasty means to transfer people from life to death that would not be looked at nicely in Den Hague.

I enjoy looking through a scope, I enjoy the challenge against an enemy sniper, and I find great pleasure in the joy of being the one to pull the trigger first and plant that virtual bullet exactly and deadly between his eyes, in which I look directly just the split second before I end his virtual life. I even find some cruel pleasure in watching an enemy sneak up, thinking himself unseen and switching to his knife for an easy kill, and just before he's in range I cap him with my handgun.

I enjoy rattling down a box of MG ammo through some corridor, actually hoping someone would be foolish enough to step in. Or throwing down a grenade onto a helpless enemy that has only the choice of staying down and eating my grenade or standing up and getting his head capped by the sniper buddy upstairs. I know he is going to die, and I enjoy it tremedously.

I run around tanks and plant that high speed AT-bullet into his rear, knowing exactly that the virtual human inside is finding a very cruel death. Going down in a tank is NOT a pretty way to die!

We're talking very realistic physics (ok, as realistic as hovercrafts and -tanks can get), very detailed textures that let you actually see the face of your enemy and that make, almost force, you to realize that you are indeed killing virtual humans.

Still I never even lifted my fist against anyone in RL. I try my best to avoid physical fights and usually leave when the 'battle' starts to escape the intellectual level. I own no real weapons and I have no drive to get one. At best, their mechanic is interesting, but not their function. Using weapons in RL is no fun.

It's dangerous.

And people who don't get that difference have more serious problems than computer games. Honestly.

Duh

[grub]

I committed most of my murders before I got into gaming.

Re:Can I get a ...

[Rude Turnip]

"Whoa why the hostility?"

Probably from playing too many violent video games...just a guess.

A WHOLE 20 Minutes?!

[nagora]

We can all sleep safer in our beds tonight knowing that teaching kids that violence is a form of entertainment doesn't make them into psycho-killers in 20 minutes flat.

Fuck a doodle-do. Quality work there.

Re:Can I get a ...

[Cylix]

I call BS...

I played a few MMO's, still play eve and what have you.

The worst is when I started playing WoW, fell in with chinese guys, started grinding and just massing large amounts of gold.

I hit rock bottom... nothing but grinding and gold collecting for weeks.

Now, I'm grinding away with this damned employment.

Just grinding and collecting cash.

Damn video games... I could have been a hippy!

Only part of the issue...

[7Prime]

Although, this is interesting, and there is some merit to the study, it only studies one part of the issue, natural tendancies as apposed to cultural ones. As someone else said, "Quake 2 is a far cry from today's GTA games", and I echo this. For its time Quake 2 was pretty violent, but culturally, it has become pretty much fully accepted and with no particular concern. What's probably more of a problem, however, is children who are constantly being asked to push the envilope of cultural acceptability of violence. I have no problem with going against cultural norms, as a whole, but children who are expected to accept violent entertainment at the edge of the cultural norm, may act very differently than ones that are expected to accept violent entertainment which has become culturally acceptable.

The bottom line is that eventually our culture comes to terms with some form of devient behavior. It's not that we morally condone it, but we become able to rationally assess it, without it becoming a sick fascination. The concern isn't so much that the violent imagery, itself, is a problem, so much as that our cravings for greater and greater violent imagery can pose a problem. We should look at this topic rationally and without reservation, there are no "duh's" or "no shit's" here. It's a valid concern. While I admit that most people, in their habbits, are healthy in their entertainment, I've also witnessed teenagers who play games specifically for the blood... which is sad, and a bit disconcerting. Violence can be used to portray strong messages, but in of itself (just like any type of stimuli) has no merrit.

I think this study is very good because it explore the natural disposition factor to violence in entertainment, and I'm sure that this is exactly WHY they chose Quake 2 to use, instead of the latest extremely violent games. That'll probably come next.

Re:Only part of the issue...

[Anonymous Coward]

Studies take a good bit of time to research, organize, fund, deploy and then do the analysis. For my "Masters" thesis in Communications I looked into a "small" portion of the connection between media, agression and violence in youth (I targeted 10 to 12 year old boys). The research that is already out there is staggering. It runs the gambit between both extremes and everything in between. It is not uncommon for someone to take research that was already done and redo the data to get different results to support their own position (you can make just about any stat say anything you want if you propose it the right way). After doing all the background work it took time to organize. In the U.S. you have to get a review board for a rubber stamp approval of the whole process before you can go any further, and that can take weeks/months depending on the "touchie/feelie" aspect of the study. Long gone are the days of having a test subject grade a paper and give an unknown/unseen (ie not real) person a shock based on how they did. Wathcing someone flip a switch or turn a dial thinking they are shocking someone speaks VOLUMES (about personality, society and receiving orders just to name a few).

From my initial concept to starting the study took a YEAR! It then took all of a semester to run the tests and another semester to field the data. When it was all said and done my study showed no reach change in behaviour from pre-recorded norms for the youth. I saw about as much agressive behaviour in 10 to 12 year old boys from watching a "yellow sponge" cartoon, watching "professional" (cough) wrestling, playing a shooter, or playing flag football (I had to get signed wavers for the football, flag football?!) for 30 minutes. I had my control group walk for 30 minutes (around a track -- I had to get waivers for this one too!?!). Now, that was only 30 minutes but I did have numerous sessions. College studies, by in large, just don't have the time or funding to do these indepth studies that take decades to pan out. My study looked about 150 youth (including control) with four 30 minutes sessions. Drop in scantron questionaires, watching video of the youth, scoring, etc, etc... it took a LONG time. I was told in no uncertain terms I would not be able to finish my research before my masters would be complete... and they were right. I passed my research onto another person who was a Junior when I started my Masters (she was in on it from the ground floor) and she finsihed the project when she received her Masters.

The BIG sticking point is what do you call aggression and how is it measured. It hitting a "BoBo Doll" aggressive? It blowing a whistle loudly aggressive? Is asking a youth to give their "frustration level" a number from 1 to 10 measuring aggression? Is asking a youth to ask a "pretty girl" out for pizza and then asking them what their "frustration level" a measure of aggression?! Is watching a youth's blood pressure or heart rate rise a measurement? Have them watch a "pretty girl" at the beach and take more measurement?! Pupil dilation? Skin temperature? The list goes on and on and on. You can't meausure "aggression" easily, period. What triggers a child's "agressive" response can be just as hard to pin down. Calling one youths mother something colorful will get responses from laughter, to name calling, to tit for tat, to a punch in the mouth. They could all be emotional responses or just learned behavior but only a few could be definately call "agression" every time. Perception.

Now that you have agression defined and measured (hah ha)... define violence? Define condoned violence? Uncondoned? Condonded violence in boys may not be so for girls and vice versa. We consider a youth charging down the field and knocking the $#@! out of another player in football condonded violence. When the other boy gets up and shurgs it off he is tough. One boy slugging another boy in the hall for "no apparent reason" maybe a bullie if the other boy does not fight back he is a "wimp or coward".

Re:Only part of the issue...

[7Prime]

Mod parent up. Damn, that was great. It's too bad you posted AC, because your score fell to zero, and so many people won't notice this insightful post.

I couldn't agree more with everything you're saying. I'm just sick and tired of people making up their minds before any results come in. When this thread first started, it was full of "no shit" and "duh" comments, which just really pissed me off, because science is a very very complicated thing that takes some serious and critical thinking.

I'm also sick and tired of the black & white responses that the press and the public are looking for. I've heard people go as far in making flippent comments as to say, "I've been playing violent games since I was 9, and I've never killed anyone, so they must be okay." This is simply rediculous, but it's the same attitude I see in the public every day. Psychology is all a series of grey areas, there are no such thing as hard and fast rules. Of course playing a violent video game won't turn average joe into a gun-toting psychopath, but there's a legitimate question as to whether it might make average joe just slightly more aggressive or irratable in some way that makes other's lives just that much more unpleasant. When you look at a society, little things like this can have major cultural consequences, so it's important to discuss openly, and not jump to conclusions. And I'm not suggesting that it DOES, but we have to be open to the possibility that it might, and be prepared to discuss what to do about it, if it is indeed the case.

Our culture wants everything in black & white terms: good and evil, right and wrong, guilty and innocent. In this day, you're either a crimina or you're an angel. It's all a huge "Us and Them" game, a way of separating ourselves from everyone we don't understand. These studies are important because they tell a lot about how we learn and grow as a society. To ignore the finer points just because they don't help us to stroke our ego, by being "the good guys", is to do violence to the very idea of personal and societal growth.

Did you see the Monopoly study?

[MrTester]

A new study points to evidence that kids who play Monopoly more than 20 minutes a day during the "critical years" causes them to become raging Capitalists.
The study looks at more than 200 of the top entrepreneurs of the last 20 years and found that 90% of them played Monolpoly as children. The remaining 10% all turned out to be pinko communists.
In a related study, it was found that Stalin, Ghengis Khan, Napoleon and Hitler all played chess as small children. Bans on chess clubs are being considered in 38 states to prevent the rise of further military dictators.

More at 11.

Some violence is good

[MikeRT]

The thing that people who worry about young men and violent video games forget is that much of a nation's martial power can be destroyed from within by pussifying its young male population. America is headed for a dangerous path with the way that we are teaching boys to "talk about their feelings," punishing them like they're psychopaths for scrapping at school and things like that. These won't be young men ready for war, and guess what'll happen when the chickens come home to roost? Violent video games are, IMO, one of the few things that hasn't rendered the young male population certifiably effeminate in this country.

And yes, being effeminate is a bad thing for a man to be. It does make you less of a man, and don't give me that bullshit about being "more sensitive and loving toward your girlfriend." I have never seen an effeminate, case study of modern psychological destruction of young men like that who is quick to defend his woman from serious harassment.

Out of the mouths of babes...

[Frodrick]

I learned this 15 years ago when I turned my then-four-year-old son loose on an early copy of Wolfenstein 3D.

After a long session of him gleefully shooting everything that moved (In god mode, of course), I decided to test the idea that violent games produced violent children. "Wouldn't it be nice if you could shoot people like that in real life?" I asked.

He looked at me, utterly shocked. "No! Why would I want to do that?"

"You enjoyed shooting people in Wolfenstein, didn't you?" I offered, "Why not for real?"

I swear, my 4 year old son looked at me with pity in his eyes. "It's only a game , Dad!

After that I decided not to worry about kids playing violent video games any more. They are a lot more aware than most folks realize... and a lot smarter than most anti-games crusaders!