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Is The Term Paper Dead?

Reader gyges writes in to tell us that the Washington Post has picked up a piece he wrote about cut-and-paste plagiarism: "Plagiarism today is heavily invested with morality surrounding intellectual honesty. That is laudable. But truly distinguishing plagiarism is a matter of intent. Did I mean to copy, was it accidental (a trick of memory), was it polygenesis[?] ... Young people today are simply too far ahead of anything schools might do to curb their recycling efforts. Beyond simply selling used term papers online, Web sites such as StudentofFortune.com allow students to post specific questions and pay for answers." The author argues that in the era we're entering, schools need to rely far less on term papers in assessing students.

35 of 444 comments (clear)

  1. I had a recent experience with this by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My step daughter is taking a class in biology. The first quiz is a bit of a doozy when tasked against my own knowledge, but it did bring out an aspect of this story. Today's kids are tasked with finding answers in what equates to an ocean of information compared to what was available when I was in school. Plagiarism is not good, but in this 'ocean of information' it is difficult to know what that really is. When studying, an answer from wikipedia is as good as one from another paper available on the Internet.

    I think it leads to lax standards as to where the answer came from when the point is to find the answer. Term papers and those efforts required of students that require actual personal thought and effort are not dead, they simply need to be pressed with more effort. Finding information is no longer the problem that it used to be. Expressing your own thoughts on the question at hand is a skill that many people never learn, never mind figure out how to express when they are 18-ish.

    It is problematic to discuss things in a black and white manner as this story seems to. The issue is not plagiarism or term papers, it is expression of thought, and that is what is endangered most by the 'ocean of information' that is now available to us all.

    1. Re:I had a recent experience with this by Riktov · · Score: 5, Funny

      I know what you mean.

      My step daughter is taking a class in biology. The first quiz is a bit of a doozy when tasked against my own knowledge, but it did bring out an aspect of this story. Today's kids are tasked with finding answers in what equates to an ocean of information compared to what was available when I was in school. Plagiarism is not good, but in this 'ocean of information' it is difficult to know what that really is. When studying, an answer from wikipedia is as good as one from another paper available on the Internet.

      I think it leads to lax standards as to where the answer came from when the point is to find the answer. Term papers and those efforts required of students that require actual personal thought and effort are not dead, they simply need to be pressed with more effort. Finding information is no longer the problem that it used to be. Expressing your own thoughts on the question at hand is a skill that many people never learn, never mind figure out how to express when they are 18-ish.

      It is problematic to discuss things in a black and white manner as this story seems to. The issue is not plagiarism or term papers, it is expression of thought, and that is what is endangered most by the 'ocean of information' that is now available to us all.

    2. Re:I had a recent experience with this by EvanED · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know this joke has been used a few times here... but I laughed. If I didn't want to post in the topic, I would mod you funny.

      (That's the problem with the mod system here; the topics I read enough to moderate I also want to post on. I think I've only used up all my points once...)

    3. Re:I had a recent experience with this by value_added · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Today's kids are tasked with finding answers in what equates to an ocean of information compared to what was available when I was in school. Plagiarism is not good, but in this 'ocean of information' it is difficult to know what that really is. When studying, an answer from wikipedia is as good as one from another paper available on the Internet.

      I think the article concerns itself with the writing itself, and not so much the information per se, which, admittedly, is somewhat akin to flotsam and jetsam.

      On the one hand, he writes:

      My transfer from education to the world of business has reminded me just how important it is to be able to synthesize content from multiple sources, put structure around it and edit it into a coherent, single-voiced whole. Students who are able to create convincing amalgamations have gained a valuable business skill.


      All well and good, right? You take information, construct a thesis, then fashion it into a coherent form. But then he goes on to dismiss the above by saying:

      So let's declare "The paper is dead" before the database makes the declaration for us.


      and cites rampant plagiarism as his rationale. Frankly, I don't get it. I'm not sure it even makes sense.

      His other argument about students not being able to write another original statement on the subject of Jane Eyre because so many have already done so is somehow supposed to support the assertion that the problem of plagiarism is unsurmountable and we should declare defeat and run away, but I see it as misleading. People write new melodies for pop songs every day. Are we supposed to believe that someday soon we'll be out of new melodies and that pop music as we know it is really dead?

      Anyone who has stood in front of a classroom knows that students often surprise you with their ideas and can offer up new ways of looking at things. Some of those same students grow up and write books or do research on subjects that have may already been written about or researched to death, the Brontes or [insert favourite dead person] included.

      Plagiarism is a problem. And originality is hard, and possibly increasingly rare. Declaring the term paper "dead" is a solution in search of some other problem.
    4. Re:I had a recent experience with this by Admiral+Ag · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm a professor, and student cheating in papers is pretty easy to get around. You simply keep the general knowledge of the subject questions for the in class tests, and you make sure the papers are on some particularly obscure part of the text, and require a hefty amount of the student's own argument.

      Papers are supposed to test the research and argumentation skills of the students. What better way to do this than make them write ten pages on some obscure argument from Aristotle or some random lines from Milton? If I, as an expert in the field, know that it is something obscure, the students aren't going to be able to find anything to copy on the internet.

      The problem here is often lazy professors who set the same paper topics every year. Then again, universities are currently set up to pass as many students as possible, rather than work them hard so that their future employers benefit.

      --
      "by that I mean people who don't sit on slashdot all day wondering why everyone else isn't building robots" DECS
    5. Re:I had a recent experience with this by Fred_A · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or you could get them to do something that hasn't been done before. That way they can't copy it from elsewhere.

      "Ok class, for your term papers, you have 3 months to turn in a working design for a (select which one applies to your students) working FTL drive, self replicating nanomachine, self-aware AI, generic cancer cure, flying car, functional economy. Now get to work."

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    6. Re:I had a recent experience with this by jimicus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then again, universities are currently set up to pass as many students as possible, rather than work them hard so that their future employers benefit.

      Students who drop out don't tend to contribute much to the university's coffers.

    7. Re:I had a recent experience with this by Gablar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem here is often lazy professors who set the same paper topics every year. Then again, universities are currently set up to pass as many students as possible, rather than work them hard so that their future employers benefit.

      I agree that in many cases it's true that the professors are lazy, but sometimes the problem is much worse than that. The problem sometimes is that the professors or teachers simply don't have the internet searching skills that the students have. Also most undergraduate level knowledge is already widely available on the web. So what can a professor assign you that it is within the scope of the course and is not available a click away? I think that many schools and colleges are simply not challenging the creativity of the students.

      --
      It's all about finding better ways
    8. Re:I had a recent experience with this by mr_mischief · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Plagiarism, of course, is a matter of degree. A quote or a few quotes is not plagiarism. Properly credited quotes can be supporting evidence for a position, although it's often better to write one's own explanation of something with a footnote (or endnote, internal reference, etc) to where the fact was found. It shows much better understanding, and makes a piece of prose flow better since it's written by one author and not assembled like Frankenstein's monster. Quotes should be left to actual speech, firsthand witness reporting, or examples reinforcing a point made in the author's own words as well.

      One good way to mitigate the problems of term papers is to require fewer multiple choice and more essay answer tests throughout the term, so the students have a sample of their writing on record already.

      A good way to measure student ability without a term paper at all is to have academic projects instead. Students learn much more about a topic from interviewing people on camera or on audio recorder than by searching the web or reading an encyclopedia entry. Interviewing scientific researchers makes science seem much more interesting than reading science-for-laypeople magazines. Interviewing military vets is a very educational experience, too. Science projects are a good idea. Civics projects, in which students for example write letters to government officials or help (maybe even start) nonprofit groups and document their unique experience, are very educational too. History projects for periods with no living survivors are a bit more difficult, as having a whole class approach a handful of historians at the local universities and museums could be overwhelming, especially if the same topic is required of all students. Projects in lieu of papers altogether may not be a solution, but they'd make a nice addition for the students and for those concerned about plagiarism.

      Plagiarism is much like any other negative activity, or indeed any activity at all (leaving morality ad ethics out of it for now). If the rewards outweigh the risks, many people are going to choose the rewards. Rewards for plagiarizing a term paper are high: good grade, less time invested, and the paper often makes up an inordinate amount of the grade. The risks are pretty low if there's no time to evaluate someone's writing. Despite what many people think, it's very difficult to determine a person's writing style from his or her speaking style, too. Only a sample of earlier writings really makes it difficult to rip off another's writing. Sifting through millions or billions of other written works to find a match is much less likely to work than to simply find a mismatch between that student's earlier writing and the current project. Making the term paper less important in the overall grade structure creates a smaller incentive to cheat. Evaluating students in a balanced way across papers, projects, quizzes, and large tests make it much more difficult to game the system, and less rewarding to do so.

      When I mod, I purposely look for topics interesting enough to read but about which I can resist commenting. That way, not only do i use all my mod points (most times), but I find I'm much more objective. When your first instinct is to rip into some idiot with a post, it's hard not to find a virtual "-1, pinhead" in the moderations list. Likewise, it's far too easy to up-mod a post with which I just want to agree.

      I find that with this method, I sometimes mod a post up because the author really did make an insightful post with a good point even if I disagree with their conclusion. I also sometimes mod posts down when I agree with the conclusion but find the argument faulty or trolling. If I'm overwhelmingly drawn to post, I don't think I can be so impartial in my moderation.

  2. I find opinions like this sad by thealsir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Really, I like writing. I think a term paper provides a convenient package by which to express what one has learned over the course of a semester.

    Anyone plagiarizing should not be in class anyway.

    --
    Do not downmod posts "overrated" simply because you disagree with them.
  3. Start with cut and pate speeling by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Funny

    and. grammer

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  4. It will still get caught - it's done to be lazy by dbIII · · Score: 3, Funny
    On the things I've marked (some time back) there are many times when the students copied in an answer to something barely related to the question - and then three or four of their friends copied that from them. It was good to mark one, staple them all together, and divide the mark among the number of students with the same answers.

    If people are too lazy to work out the answer they will often be too lazy to work out whether the thing they have copied is correct or not.

  5. One possible idea... by EvanED · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't think dropping the paper is a good idea, as it's the project-type things that are really the best indicators barring this sort of cheating.

    But maybe you could do something like spend 15 minutes with everyone (this would take a while, I know) and ask them questions about what they wrote, or have them give a presentation on the topic. That way even if they cheated on the paper itself, at least you know it wasn't a case of just downloading it and handing it in, and that they actually know the material.

    I've thought about this in the context of, say, an intro CS class. I think that a good way to do the evaluations would be to let people work in groups, but then for each assignment randomly choose 5 or 10 people who you ask about their design and implementation, "if the question changed in this way, how would that affect your solution", etc.

    But if you drop the paper, what's left? Tests? They aren't really a good indication. Heck, I had a semester-long class in high school that only met formally a few times and effectively had one assigment: write and present a paper.

    1. Re:One possible idea... by jimicus · · Score: 3, Informative

      But maybe you could do something like spend 15 minutes with everyone (this would take a while, I know) and ask them questions about what they wrote, or have them give a presentation on the topic. That way even if they cheated on the paper itself, at least you know it wasn't a case of just downloading it and handing it in, and that they actually know the material.

      What a good idea. We've been using it in the UK for years, it's called a viva though it's generally reserved for your final, major project in University.

      It's not intimidating at all if you've done the work - just a 15 minute or so face to face chat about your work with a lecturer. I imagine cheating would probably be fairly obvious within the first 2 minutes to any lecturer who's even vaguely awake.

  6. What's with cheating anyway? by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 3, Insightful
    If a kid is motivated to be learning, then grades should be the least of their worries because cheating does not improve learning.

    Anyone who cheats to get good grades is being very inefficient. It is far easier to just use Photoshop/Gimp to make yourself a diploma.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:What's with cheating anyway? by grcumb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, suppose you want to be a physicist but have to take a class in art history or something to satisfy university requirements. You probably don't care about actually learning any art history, so you cheat and focus on your physics instead.

      Well, no offense, but that's bloody stupid. The student who thinks that art history and physics don't have any relation to one another, and that there's nothing to be learned outside the immediate confines of one's field of study... well, suffice it to say that they need to adjust their logic.

      I have a fairly good reason for saying this, as someone who did a double degree in Theatre and English Lit, but ended up working as an application developer and systems integrator. If it weren't for the fact that I'm omnivorous when it comes to learning, I'd have never made the leap. And don't for a second think that there's no application for what I learned in Theatre in the world of computers, or vice versa.

      Incidentally, one of my Theatre term papers was a study of the interaction of Ernst Mach and his contemporary scientists with the Dadaist art movement. And for those of you who don't see the point of such a study, consider that Einstein, Lenin, James Joyce and Tristan Tzara (who founded the Dada movement) all lived within spitting distance of one another at one point in time.

      Summary: The greatest cost of cheating is borne by the cheater.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  7. I See This Already by CWRUisTakingMyMoney · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Where I go to college, one of my professors (in a social science) has a standing bet with all his students: if we ever have to write a term paper for our job in the real world (i.e., not academia), he'll donate $25 to the charity of our choice. He's been teaching since the 1970s and has never had to pay up. Whatever papers he writes, he insists on being done in a memorandum format, with no cover pages or in-text cites, and MAYBE something akin to a references page on the end. The focus is much more about getting facts on paper from whatever sources we deem suitable, not doing elaborate research to look impressive.

    Another benefit of the memo style over a term paper is that we can't be long-winded. We're given a maximum page length, not a minimum (usually around four to five pages), into which we have to cram 15 or so term-paper-pages' worth of material. It's surprisingly difficult, but (according to him; I'm not yet in the real world full-time) that kind of skill is vastly important and not taught enough. Real-world types: does this sound accurate (and/or wise)?

    --
    Those who anthropomorphize science and/or nature already believe in an intelligent designer.
    1. Re:I See This Already by JanneM · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, it's social science after all - a post-graduation food-service career doesn't require a lot of writing.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  8. Re:Cut and Pate by Riktov · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's a truly fowl practice, among the wurst around. These plagiarists steal the meat of others' writing, and then, when goosed into confessing their crime, spread the blame on others.

  9. Re:Less Papers more projects by Brandybuck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As student in computer engineering I have never been asked to write a paper.

    What!?!? No reading and composition classes? No literature, history or philosophy? No humanity courses at all? No science classes where you have to write reports? What a shallow education you are getting.

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  10. Abolish Grades by fyoder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Get rid of grading altogether. Education shouldn't be some stupid game where students quite legitimately ask, 'Is this going to be on the exam?', because if you're going for high score you don't want to waste a lot of time on stuff that won't score you points. The only exams should be at the start of term to determine if a student possesses the prerequisite knowledge to handle the course material. Fail prereq exams, don't get necessary courses, don't graduate. Anyone who graduates has to have known enough to do so. Beyond that, place emphasis on the aquisition of knowledge -- wouldn't that be revolutionary? Education that emphasized the aquisition of knowledge? What a concept.

    As long as it's just a game I really can't get that upset about students gaming the game. As is, it's just bullshit anyway. Get through it any way you can.

    --
    Loose lips lose spit.
    1. Re:Abolish Grades by Teancum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is presuming that the purpose of a college education (especially a "liberal arts" education) is to acquire knowledge and critical thinking skills. And to discover a diversity of viewpoints.

      While these are all laudable goals, it is so far from the truth about what higher education is all about that if you really believe any of these points above... see a local psychiatrist, or at least a competent educational counselor.

      The real truth of the matter is that a college degree (particularly the B.S., but the grad degrees as well) are really a form of the classic "guild certification" or "union card", but applied to professional occupations. Some professions require things like a Juris Doctorate or some other specialized degree, but a bachelor's degree is pretty typical... especially for things like engineers.

      And of course you need the PhD if you want to be involved with teaching at a university.

      While it is a good idea to try and pick up some knowledge while you are going through the meat grinder of a college education, you should keep foremost that the knowledge is not the point. The real point is to "punch the ticket", build up credits in required courses, and get the best grades you can. How you can talk the instructors into getting those grades is of course a matter of style and attitude, with demonstration of knowledge being but one of the ways you can do that.

      And keep in mind that most university programs are not designed to give you knowledge either. If they were, they wouldn't be having Computer Science instructors with accents so thick that they might as well be speaking a foreign language. Or in some cases they are, but somehow got past the dean of the college and got hired anyway and speak a dialect of Klingon, with Esperanto as their second language.

      The purpose of most university programs is to control the rate of entry for people entering a given profession. The American Medical Association is very blunt and obvious about this, by only certifying select schools and controlling the number of graduates that are produced. If one million students with the same skills (or better!) as the last recipient of the Nobel prize in Medicine applied to med school, the number of students actually graduating would still be largely the same. The standards for graduation would merely be raised to nearly impossible standards to control the rate of graduation. And if there is a shortfall in the number of doctors, those standards will be lowered to permit more to graduate. There may be problems with specific specialities, but the over all number of medical doctors will be maintained.

      The same could be said about lawyers (and the bar exam) as well as other professions. Many of the classes are designed explicitly to scare the heck out of you to ever enter into a given profession and consider an alternative path in life, and certainly act as a way to "weed" students out who don't have views of society that meshes with those of the faculty. If you stick up like a rusty nail in a board, prepare to get wacked and beaten down. And never, ever, try to show that you know more about the subject than your instructor. While it is fun to be cocky and show off that you've been a Linux hacker since you were 12 and have contributed over 40,000 lines into the Linux kernel by the time you graduated from High School, don't you ever dare let your professor know that was the case. You will be surely marked for heresy and doomed to drop out of college. They will make it a point to see you get flushed out in one way or another.

      Oh, there are some professors and a few (very few) college/universty environments that actually do care about their students and go against this orthodoxy, but I am telling you and anybody else reading this that this is a rare exception and not the general rule. Some colleges even brag about a 30% graduation rate.... to show just how successful they are at telling students where to go and scare them out of trying to finish the programs.

      Of cour

  11. Garbage in...garbage out. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Education has changed. It used to be difficult to find already answered questions. Not so anymore because of Google. The age of solving problem 1-10 from the book are over and the what of what is what is over.

    All that needs to be done to address this is for the teachers to create new unique questions. Students will have pleasure of answering questions not solved by anyone before and also need to adapt all the content they have access to towards a term paper.


    Bingo. The only way that students can really plagiarize their term paper is if the question being asked is so banal that thousands of other students have already beaten it to death.

    If you make the question unique, then there's really not much of a way to rip off a paper that you find on the internet. At best, all students will be able to do are copy introductory paragraphs, but the critical stuff will all have to be recreated (making the lifted text stand out against the other writing, but more importantly, retaining the more important parts of the exercise).

    Ask dried-up, tired questions, and you'll probably get dried-up, tired term papers. Who'da thunk it?

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  12. would hate to take a class with that guy by Schlemphfer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >Where I go to college, one of my professors (in a social science) has a standing bet with all his students:
    >if we ever have to write a term paper for our job in the real world (i.e., not academia), he'll donate $25 to
    >the charity of our choice. He's been teaching since the 1970s and has >never had to pay up.

    Of course he never has to pay up. But the underlying point he's trying to make is idiotic. There's no such thing as a term paper in business or government. But there are tons of important tasks that draw on exactly that skill set. Should we hire a team of people to redesign our packaging; does the potential added sales justify the expense? What mistakes did we make in our last government bid, and how can they be avoided next time? Why does Sally deserve to get the ax for her abrasive attitude towards people who report to her?

    These are all things often handled with the very same writing structure that you learn writing term papers. Much of your potential to reach leadership positions within industry depends on how effectively you can explain, and how persuasively you can argue. Nothing in academia develops these skills like a good, old fashioned, term paper. It's really galling to see somebody within academia who is seemingly oblivious to how important these skills are. The fact is most college students can't write for shit, and if they could, they would be better decision-makers, they would carry greater influence at work, and they would go further in life.

    Plus, being able to express yourself clearly is just cool regardless of how it affects your career potential.

    --
    I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
  13. Not dead yet. by AndOne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The term paper as such doesn't need to be done away with. What needs to be happening is that over the course of the 3 or 4 weeks the students are writing the paper and researching the paper they should also be giving a series of presentations and/or meeting with the professor at least 1 or 2 times to discuss their progress. Sure, it may sound like babying the student, but status reports are a fact of life. Hell I meet with my adviser(grad school) at least once a week just to touch base and let him know what's happening. Since this is /. as an example when I was taking computer architecture we had to do a paper on some given facet of the field or a specific architecture. Really whatever most interested us at the time. We had to provide references and brief status reports, and give a presentation on the paper at the end. You might be able to fake a paper you turn in but it's much harder to fake the presentation and the status reports if you don't actually know the material. Of course this all presumes the professor cares/has the energy to deal with this level of effort.

    --
    I don't care what you say, all I need is my Wumpabet soup.
  14. My own experience. by KyoMamoru · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, I thought I'd chime in one this. My mother is a High School English teacher, and she isn't quiet up on the technology behind cheating. Often times if I'm visiting, I'll help her grade her English Papers, like any good son should. During my mom's first year of teaching at a new High School, the students evidently thought that they could fool the new teacher on a paper about the Crucible. I caught 90% of the students plagiarizing. Most of them were word for word, others were modifications of adjectives, but the prior work shined through.

    I suppose you're thinking that the children would have been suspended, or failed for the whole term? Unfortunately, they were all given a slap on the wrist, and my mom was only allowed to give them F's for that single paper. There were no write ups, no detention, no community service, nothing. The schools just refused to buckle down on it, which sickened me. Now, anytime my mother has papers to grade, I make sure she sends me a fax of any suspicious writing, and I do research on it.

    More often than not, I catch five percent of her class plagiarizing per paper. This is after she extensively tells them that she had caught her countless before. Some children even have the gall to copy and paste Wikipedia articles word for word. It's sad times that we live in, and the United States government simply isn't proving a means to deal with it.

    1. Re:My own experience. by Architect_sasyr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      OTOH I recall failing a class a few years back for so-called plagiarizing of works.

      Turns out I had taken a document, re-written it for my own words and submitted it to a friend for review. The friend suggested that I make it sound more technical than it did, so I proceeded to take my re-write and re-write it. Unfortunately my vocabulary at the time meant that I re-wrote it to sound almost identical to the original source, which in my case was a genuine mistake.

      Perhaps I'm just a part of the nth percentile in this, but it begs the question of how many students fail because of similar circumstances.

      Incidentally, I'm all for getting rid of the term paper, out here in Australia I have found it to be a useless venture (albeit profitable when co-students pay you for your work).

      --
      Me failed English...
      FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
    2. Re:My own experience. by king-manic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Heres a story. When I was in university I had a group of casual friends that I took classes with. 4 out of these 5 guys cheated their asses off. Copying from each other, from internet sources, buying papers, etc.. Myself and one of the other guys refused to do that and went it our own way. Myself and the other guy got okay marks couldn't find a good job and ended up in sales and tech support. The 4 others got good marks and each have a job with a major company (3 of them work for big blue). My anecdotal story high lights that I should teach my children to cheat their asses off because honesty doesn't pay.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    3. Re:My own experience. by cunina · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Turns out I had taken a document, re-written it for my own words and submitted it to a friend for review.

      That is generally considered to be plagiarism. It's not just words but ideas that can be plagiarized. If you didn't cite the source of the ideas (the document you paraphrased), then you are effectively claiming its ideas and information as your original work.

    4. Re:My own experience. by oddman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, the moral of the story is that you need to be an active member of your ethical community, not just a passive observer of immoral agents. You knew that your friends were acting immorally and breaking the rules of the university, and you chose to do nothing about it. The cheaters prospered because they cheated, but they cheated successfully because you allowed them to. You let them harm you by allowing them to gain an unfair advantage over you. Who's fault is that?

      When you know someone is acting against the interests of the group in order to gain an unfair advantage and you do nothing about it, you shouldn't complain about the results.

      You know the line about evil needing nothing to succeed but that good men do nothing? It applies to people like you in situations like this.

    5. Re:My own experience. by hahiss · · Score: 3, Informative

      Plagiarism isn't just about using the the same words, it is presenting the work of others as your own. Even if you paraphrase, you must cite your sources. (This is pretty standard in university academic honesty policies.)

      Granted, this is tricky to master---and the details of the case make all the difference. If a student tries to slide by a sophisticated bit of reasoning from the secondary literature, that's going to cause more problems than failing to cite the source for what appears to be (but isn't) a more commonly believed datum.

      --
      "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
    6. Re:My own experience. by DudeTheMath · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mod parent up!

      My wife is an English professor and has to deal with this all the time. "But I didn't mean to!" doesn't cut it: she takes class time to explain plagiarism, and then she quizzes them on it, and then keeps the quiz as evidence that the student understands what constitutes plagiarism.

      There is always some ding-a-ling who thinks he (and it's usually, although not always, "he") can fool her by pulling pieces from random web sources and vaguely stitching them together. C'mon, she's a literature prof; part of her job is analyzing style in a work. She can spot style changes a mile away.

      On the rare occasion she can't actually pull up the source on the web (or, for the enterprising cheater, in the library; and don't bother hiding the book, 'cause there's such a thing as inter-library loan), she can almost always simply fail the paper on grammar/usage errors or on simple factual errors.

      We have entertained the notion that those paper mills sell papers with deliberate errors ( only slightly more subtle than "After Hamlet murders Ophelia, ..."), probably written by other English professors for a laugh.

      Sure, there are probably students good enough to take diverse sources and make a decent paper out of it with proper transitions, etc.; but if they've done that much work, they were probably better off writing their own paper!

      --
      You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
  15. Same difference by The+Amazing+Fish+Boy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only exams should be at the start of term to determine if a student possesses the prerequisite knowledge to handle the course material.
    Is that really any different than what we have now? We have exams at the end of courses, to verify we learned what we need to know. Passing those courses is a prerequisite for attending other courses. And even under your proposed system, we would still have the question, "Is this going to be on next year's exam?"

    The only real change I see your system adding is a free-ride for the last year of your education, since you won't be graded for doing any work. Unless your statement that "anyone who graduates has to have known enough to do so" means final exams in your last year. Which is still flawed, because someone might drop out without passing, but still have the "1 year university experience" on their resume.
  16. Also in the UK by Flying+pig · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Nowadays there is a kind of prejudice against exams because men do better at them than women. The move to continuous assessment has caused girls to do better at schools than boys, so it can work both ways. But I came up through the system where the only thing that really mattered was the exam, and I am grateful. I am inherently lazy and will only work if there is a positive outcome at the end, and teacher approval was not a significant positive outcome. In today's world I would probably fail both school and university. On the other hand the present system has benefited my daughters and given them a definite advantage over equally intelligent boys.

    I reassure myself by thinking, having read his biography, that in today's world an Alan Turing would probably have failed to get into Cambridge.

    The best thing about sudden-death exams is that they virtually eliminate cheating if they are properly run, at least in subjects where thought is needed. And the experience of Cambridge physics practical - walk into a room where there is a joke piece of apparatus never seen before, a short paper describing what is to be measured and a few equations, and have a day to make something of it - that has benefited me the rest of my life. I only recently thought about it when trying to understand why staff going onto client sites nowadays seemed so much less confident and unable to make decisions than my generation. Then I thought back to those practical exams. The new generation is better at solving problems by googling for relevant data and trying to extract the pattern, but we had to try and wing it from scratch. I'm not saying either is necessarily better or worse, but if I was ever trapped on a desert island I know which group I would rather be with.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
  17. Quotes are not plagiarism by tgibbs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Plagiarism, of course, is a matter of degree. A quote or a few quotes is not plagiarism. Properly credited quotes can be supporting evidence for a position, although it's often better to write one's own explanation of something with a footnote (or endnote, internal reference, etc) to where the fact was found.


    A properly credited quote is never plagiarism. The essence of plagiarism is fraud; misrepresenting somebody else's work or ideas as your own. It is not not a matter of degree, but of intent. But the more you do it, the more likely it is that you will be caught. It tends to be a slippery slope--the more you rely upon other people's words, the less practice you get at saying things in your own words, and the more you feel the need to steal.

    Overuse of quotations may be lazy writing or bad writing, and will not necessarily net you a good grade on an essay, but it is never plagiarism.