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Two Worm "Families" Make Up Most Botnets

JMoon writes "HNS has an article about the Sdbot and Gaobot families which are responsible for most botnets worldwide. These two families were responsible for 80 percent of detections related to bots during the first quarter of 2007. Other culprits, although on a much lesser scale, included Oscarbot, IRCbot or RXbot."

50 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. Well, you see, by GodFjotten · · Score: 3, Funny

    viruses kinda runs in the family...

    1. Re:Well, you see, by Ngarrang · · Score: 2, Funny

      The FTC should file a lawsuit against those two worms. In this day and age, we should have the freedom to choose whichever worm we prefer to infect our system. What if I want a completely different family of worm on my system? Did these virus writers think of that? Feh on them.

      --
      Bearded Dragon
  2. And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Informative

    Recently, I had to put an SP1 WinXP online to demonstrate that it's (still) insecure to do that. I was expecting that the blaster menace has somewhat dwindled since its outbreak, simply 'cause it's been a while since its outbreak.

    Boy, was I wrong!

    It took 10 seconds for the FTP to go berserk, a minute later I was a happy member of the still strongly going family of wormspreaders.

    People simply don't update their systems. It's amazing, that thing is afaik about 5 years old now, and still there are a LOT of machines existing that still blow the worm through the net.

    We're not talking about an unfixable problem, or at least one where the user has to be dumb enough to open the can for the worm (ok, bad pun). It's as simple as updateing to SP2, something that works automatically.

    You actually have to disable MS Messenger to at least cease to get those annoying popup messages, so why can people disable that but not update their systems? That's simply beyond my comprehension.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:And that won't change soon by someone1234 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I still wonder why no one wrote some code which wipes those rogue bots off (along with the terminally ill host).

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    2. Re:And that won't change soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's as simple as updateing to SP2, something that works automatically.

      Updating to SP2 isn't simple though. It's a massive download if you're on dailup or even a slow DSL connection. On top of that it takes up a lot of disk space/RAM and if you have anything but latest high-speed machine you're going to be sitting there waiting a long time while it installs.

    3. Re:And that won't change soon by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 4, Informative

      Probably so many XP users are on license keys that have been disabled by Microsoft Genuine Advantage so that they can't upgrade to SP2, so they're left compromised and unable to defend themselves by remaining patched by Automatic Updates.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    4. Re:And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmm... then to fix that bot problem, all we'd have to do is report the IP Addresses hammering against our firewalls as potential pirates? In the current hype and the leeway IP holders get when filing suits and pressing Names from the ISPs, it should be easy to instill enough fear in those upgrade-resistant people ...

      I have a plan. Thanks for helping me on the track.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:And that won't change soon by bogjobber · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That might be part of the problem, but I'm sure there are more people out there that simply don't upgrade. Every time I visit my sister and/or parents house I make sure to do it, because they never download or install updates. If it wasn't for me I doubt they'd have gotten SP2.

    6. Re:And that won't change soon by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's an idea, but I'd recommend against it. So many legitimate license keys have been disabled by Microsoft that it would affect a huge number of innocent users who've had their key disabled because MS felt like it.

      I have seen firsthand and heard countless confirmations of people re-installing XP on their OEM system using the license key from the sticker that was glued to their system case, and being rejected by Microsoft's Product Activation. I'm not sure the reason behind this, but I'd guess that most likely some keygen hacker program ended up randomly generating the same key and was used enough times that MS decided to distrust that key anymore.

      In my case, I was helping out a friend of the family with getting their laptop back in service after it had been hopelessly compromised by malware. I entered the key from the sticker on the bottom of their laptop, and Product Activation failed. I called the 1-800 number that Microsoft said to call, and went through all their steps to generate a new number, but it just told me that I was rejected and that my number was in fact really no good. I had no recourse, no appeal, no live body to talk to on the phone. So I did the only thing I could do to return the system to service, and used a Corporate license key that didn't need to be run through Product Activation and would not trip of on WGA.

      Now, you might say that pissing off all these legitimate users would actually be a good thing, because it will ultimately help Microsoft to shoot its foot clean off by enraging masses of legitimately licensed end users who've been disconnected from the net because they couldn't maintain their systems properly because MS couldn't validate their license even though it wasn't pirated. But I don't think it's quite fair to say that every license key that fails to pass WGA is ipso facto a pirate user. If you block everyone on suspicion of running an unpatched, compromised, pirated OS, you're going to affect a lot of screwed paying customers. As long as they rightfully blame Microsoft for being the cause of their woes, you should be in the clear. If the collateral damage is worth it, then I guess it's not a bad plan.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    7. Re:And that won't change soon by toleraen · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually just running windows update will fix both of the named worms...so even if you do get infected with either of them, once you finally get your updates it should fix it.

    8. Re:And that won't change soon by Dan_Bercell · · Score: 2, Informative

      I called the 1-800 number that Microsoft said to call, and went through all their steps to generate a new number, but it just told me that I was rejected and that my number was in fact really no good. I had no recourse, no appeal, no live body to talk to on the phone

      Through that 1-800 number you can eventually make it to a person. You can then read off your 48 digit number and they will give you another 48-digit number. They will then ask you the same questions they ask everyone and you will be on your way. I often have to call this number for OEM workstations.

    9. Re:And that won't change soon by Heembo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the duty of every user of the internet to keep his machine from being a danger to it. With respect, I disagree. Do you really expect grandma to understand the necessity of patching their operating system? No way! It's the duty of OPERATION SYSTEM VENDORS to build products that auto-patch in a robust way. Sadly, Windows update is one of the best out there - but still, we need a lot more work in this direction.
      --
      Horns are really just a broken halo.
  3. Reduced diversity. by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Q1 2007: 80% from two families.

    2006: 74% from these families.

    Hmm. Too bad bots reproduce asexually, otherwise we could hope for inbreeding to take them out.

    Seriously, though, is the decreased diversity in bot "heritage" a good thing -- does it mean that bot infections are easier to detect and treat?

    Or does it not make any bit of difference until the typical user learns to protect their PC?

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    1. Re:Reduced diversity. by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Seriously, though, is the decreased diversity in bot "heritage" a good thing -- does it mean that bot infections are easier to detect and treat? Or does it not make any bit of difference until the typical user learns to protect their PC?

      Your answer: "yes". Now where's my cookie?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Reduced diversity. by houghi · · Score: 2, Informative

      It does not mean anything. The only thing it means is that those two families are more successfull then the others.
      If the remaining 20% is less then the remaining 26% in numbers, that could mean that some other families are faded out and/or that it is harder to remove those two families.
      If the 26% and 20% are the same, it just means that those two families are spreading faster then the rest.
      If the 20% is more then the 26%, then it would mean that in general we are winning the battle slowly.

      By itself it means absolutely nothing. Also you would need to know how they are being put out there. If there are just a few that are realy pushing those two families, then it is no wonder that there are more of them.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  4. Non Windows Bots by pembo13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Any information on non-Windows bots? I know bots are forever trying to get into SSH, so that must means non Windows machines are being targeted, but I am curious as to the success-rate.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    1. Re:Non Windows Bots by Anon-Admin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't think those are bots.

      I noticed my servers SSH port being hit a few years ago. I moved it to another port, locked the port down, then set up an SSH honey pot on the standard port. The honey pot attempts to ID people from programs using a verity of methods such as space between key strokes and use of the backspace or delete key.

      I found that once the attacking software appeared to have access to the server, A person would login and check it out. Most of them attempted to use wget to dump a root kit onto the server. I have grabbed copies of the software they attempt to down load and checked it out.

      It normally consists of a root kit, network scanner, packet sniffer, and the scanning software to scan and hack SSH.

      I think these are wannabe hacker kids trying to get in.

    2. Re:Non Windows Bots by Anon-Admin · · Score: 4, Informative

      For you or anyone who wants to know more about the software and setup. Go to my website, http://www.xganon.com/ and send me an e-mail. Just select the "Contact Us" button and fill out the info. Ill e-mail you back and we can go over the software (open source) and how to set it up.

      I am always willing to help people secure a system. :)

  5. Make a CD by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you are stuck with dialup, get a friend to download the SP2 CD and burn it for you.

    If you have DSL or Cable and nothing else on your LAN is infected, your NAT or other firewall should protect you from "out of the box" threats. As long as you stick to known-safe web sites like windowsupdate and most security-software vendors, you should be OK long enough to get updated.

    What's that? You are on DSL or Cable and do NOT have a firewall? Spend a few bucks and get one!

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Make a CD by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's that? You are on DSL or Cable and do NOT have a firewall? Spend a few bucks and get one!

      That one bears repeating. If you want to run windows, you are simply going to have to run it behind an idenpendent firewall, unless you enough of a security expert to be able to outline a IP packet without looking at the books. If you are too cheap or poor to get one, (k)ubuntu is right over there. CD's to be had for a couple of euros, and with the refund for the windows license, you're even going to save a few dollars or euros.

      This goes for Windows up to and including the XP. Never been near Vistas, but from I hear, it's the same deal.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    2. Re:Make a CD by Ephemeriis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you are too cheap or poor to get one, (k)ubuntu is right over there.
      The various Linux distros are certainly more secure than Windows, but I'm not sure I'd trust them on a naked broadband connection either. There are still vulnerabilities for people to take advantage of - fewer, certainly, but they're still there.
      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
  6. There's a reason for that. by Spazntwich · · Score: 5, Informative

    SDBot is incredibly popular because it's open source and easily modified to sneak past most AV software with minor changes. It also has an extremely wide array of features, and tends to be very reliable.

    People without the knowledge to code their own trojan/bot from scratch will naturally gravitate towards tools which allow them to make their money more easily, and it's a real time saver.

    Or so I hear.

    1. Re:There's a reason for that. by bcattwoo · · Score: 2, Funny

      SDBot is incredibly popular because it's open source

      Yeah, I used to Oscarbot, but the EULA with their latest upgrade was freakin' joke! Then they dropped support for Oscarbot 98, meanwhile their crappy software isn't even compatible with Vista. Thank God for OSS!

  7. Does this make it easier for ISPs to spot them? by davidwr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm not sure if botnets have "signature" activity that's easy for an ISP to spot or not.

    If they do, then getting ISPs to proactively monitor their customers for botnet-specific activities and phone them when they see suspicious activity will go a long way toward eliminating these particular threats.

    Imagine if your mother getting this answering-machine message from her DSL provider:
    "Hello Ms. Jones. You've heard of computer viruses? Our engineers are seeing signs of a virus on one of your computers. Please visit our security web site at http://www.momsisp.com./ This same web site is printed on your billing statement. In the meantime, we are taking steps to keep the virus from spreading. This may affect your connection. We will remove these blocks automatically when we see your system is clean. If you have any questions, call us at 1-800-MOM-SISP. Thank you."

    Her next call will probably be to you. Problem solved.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Does this make it easier for ISPs to spot them? by vertinox · · Score: 2, Funny

      Her next call will probably be to you. Problem solved.

      And for those who don't have geek relatives...

      Her next call will be to the ISP's tech in India who will say to call Microsoft who to says to call your OEM-Computer Vendor who says to call your Anti-virus vendor who tells you to call your local Geek squad who then proceeds to just somehow fry your video card while formatting your computer.

      Problem solved! Oh wait...

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    2. Re:Does this make it easier for ISPs to spot them? by TerminalWriter · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Actually, I had this happen, although it wasn't a phone call.

      My roommate set up a box and I guess he didn't finish patching it or something, because in less than a week, we got e-mail and snail mail from our ISP informing us of our PC that was scanning ports and more than likely had a virus. We took it off the network, but still haven't taken the time to wipe it and clean install it.

  8. Liability... by msimm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you write a piece of code that's going to spread through unpatched computer networks you're creating a worm. Not only that, but if you make a mistake and this piece of code somehow (unforeseeably) damages any thing you will be in a world of hurt.

    Either way, the law doesn't look to kindly on computer trespass even if (you *claim*) your intentions are good.

    --
    Quack, quack.
    1. Re:Liability... by cdrguru · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, you are going to be in the same position as the folks that create botnets. We see every day how these people are treated.

      Are they arrested in thrown in jail? No, they are living very well in Russia from their ill-gotten gains.

      There is no liability unless you are a complete idiot.

    2. Re:Liability... by fm6 · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, they are living very well in Russia from their ill-gotten gains. So if I write a counter-bot, I get to go live in Russia? What an incentive!
    3. Re:Liability... by bcattwoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, you are going to be in the same position as the folks that create botnets. We see every day how these people are treated.

      Are they arrested in thrown in jail? No, they are living very well in Russia from their ill-gotten gains.

      There is no liability unless you are a complete idiot. Or don't want to live in Russia.
    4. Re:Liability... by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Funny

      When I ever feel the urge to move to Russia, I'm gonna do that. Promised.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. Dialups aren't good Bot fodder anyway by billstewart · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If you're on a slow DSL, yes, it'll take a while to download SP2. Big deal - run it at night, and you've now *had* a couple of years, so realistically what you're talking about is installing an upgraded OS on your upgraded PC, so you could do the download on your old machine before you plug the new one in.


    A large fraction of the problem can be taken care of by using a hardware firewall in front of your PC from the moment you first plug it in, which'll usually keep you safe long enough to get the current security upgrades. That's not fool-proof - there are bad guys hunting for flaws in popular firewall boxes - but it's a good start.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  10. Ask Robert Morris by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 4, Informative

    Though he did not get jail time, he still was convicted. http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/6805/articles/morris-w orm.html

  11. A valid botnet .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Thought this would be an interesting point to add about botnets and security.

    2 years ago I almost gave our security people a heart attack when I suggested an internal botnet.

    We have most of our servers plugged into a tightly controlled IRC server.
    All servers run a custom bot with limited access that pipe all critical files into specific IRC channels.

    Response bots monitor the channels and take appropriate action, signaling the bots to run specific commands, paging, emailing, etc.

    It allows NOC to run things like 'uptime' and have dozens of servers reply at once.

    Security it tightly controlled at the bot and server level, using a custom hacked and very locked down UnlreaIRCd.

    For our security at least, it was the first example of a useful IRC setup that allowed easy monitoring and limited control of servers.

    As bad as botnets are, they are very good at what they do.
    Good example of allowing totally unrelated applications to communicate with each other, as basically all programming languages have IRC support.

    And a funny side note, my slashdot "verification image" is "misuse" ....

    1. Re:A valid botnet .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Our setup is fairly simple.
      The bots are all stored in our Subversion repository.
      To install the bot they run a simple script along the lines of -
      wget http://repos/installer | perl

      The IRC server is the next pert, UnrealIRCd running modules such as NSAuth (among others).

      Can't login without a user/pass, can't create a channel that isn't defined, can't /msg anyone.
      Can only msg in channels, and all non-bot chatter is logged.
      Can't talk in log channels, but if you have permissions you can enter and watch the logs.

      The bots are the only ones with permission to /msg a channel. They don't join the channels, only
      message them so they don't see peer logs.

      Its also custom hacked to do the opposite of most IRC servers, flooding gets priority.
      If your client can't keep up, you get kicked, not the bots. This ensures the log files continue at full pace.

      For monitoring we have applications running on monitoring servers that watch the log channels, when things happen they take action.
      Usually actions are to page someone, or join a "command channel" and issue a command to the bots.
      They also monitor IRC chatter.

      The bots only listen for commands from specific nicks, in specific channels, from specific IPs.
      They follow cron-like permissions, so NOC teams and programmers can only run commands during their shifts.
      Additionally, production rollouts are handled by the bots.
      We say "release", they run svn up in production, do cleanup scripts, etc.
      With sudo access to specific accounts and commands given to the bots.
      And rollback is just as simple, developers don't need production access for releases, to check logs, etc.
      It also ensures they can't break anything on non-rollout days, permissions are usually only Tue - Thu.

      Bot permissions are controlled via subversion.
      To give someone else permissions, you need commit access to the bots repository, then access in IRC to tell the bots to update their permissions or source files.
      This also is locked down to specific timezones when they can update themselves, so a developer with access can't touch the bots source on a weekend.

      Currently working on GPG security as well for more specific commands.
      Bots store your public key, and /msg you a request, and since we all run IRC clients with perl support, we can script the challenge/response.

      Security in IRC, in the bots, in subversion. With Subversion and IRC servers being tightly locked down.

      Our security team has no complaints, but its fun to see each new person they hire go through the whole process all over again.
      "We do what with IRC?"

  12. The Same Old Bots by madsheep · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have a few comments and one will answer some of the previous questions to some degree.
    First, the majority of these trojans, specifically these are all IRC based. They are very easy to spot, especially in corporate environments. Why? Well because most people do not use IRC while they are at work. Not to mention many companies will have policies against it. This makes intrusion detection for these kinds of bots very easily. Since most of these servers housing the bots are just standard Unreal IRCD (generally hacker-installed) or whatever IRCD undernet/efnet/etc. run on, they are not encrypted. This means when a machine connects, traffic with "NOTICE", "PRIVMSG", "JOIN #" etc is all sent in the clear. There have been snort/bleeding snort rules to look for this type of activity for years and they haven't had to change much. Sure the ports might not always be 6667-6669/7000, but looking for activity like this on a certain port is dumb to do anyway.

    A simple analysis of most IRC traffic should you have real-time peaks or capture logs will tell you pretty quick if it's malicious. If you see a nick change to XP|24249429 or USA|2942949 and it joins a channel called #owned with a topic of .scan 10.0.0.0/8 then there's a pretty good chance the machine in question is an infected bot and most likely with one of the aforementioned variants. Now most home users won't have insight into this type of activity. And funny enough there's not much "big brother" by way of ISPs caring much for this. Unless reported to them they most likely won't do anything. Even then they still might not do anything. http://www.shadowserver.org/ keeps a list of good/responsive ISPs. This might be more in the case of a malicious host housing an IRCD, but that's beside the point.

    Now finally these two are quite popular. Why? Well it has been said already. The source for them is our there and they are readily available. People frequently update and modify them to avoid AV detection. Hell, many people don't update and modify them. So many people are running without [updated] AV that it doesn't seem to matter much. If you notice how most people get infected, it's the same old thing. IM worm, e-mail worm, malicious website, or a scan for the 2 year old dcom exploit. Every time some new IE/Firefox/etc vulnerability is released, someone quickly makes it download their trojan.

    These variants have been around for years. Luckily the people using them are pretty dumb. It's just a matter of time before worms/viruses/etc turn to web-based (not IRC) and encryption as the norm.

  13. ISP's half the problem by cdrguru · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No ISP is going to shut off an account because of an infected computer. They might throttle it somewhat, but it is the site administrator's responsibility to deal with infected computers. What? Your parents don't have a "site administrator" overseeing their computers? (((except when you are there... ha ha))) Well, that sounds like a real problem, doesn't it?

    What we have are general-purpose computers that people install random software on without thinking about where it came from, what it might do and the consequences of having that happen. Then, they don't check to see what their computer is doing when it is supposedly idle and thrashing around on the hard drive or is really slow. Well, maybe it is just getting old and needs to be replaced. Right.

    So we have the equivalent of handing a loaded revolver to a three-year-old and leaving the room. We have seen how they can hurt themselves with it. We can see how they hurt others with it. And about all that is done is giving them some more bullets.

    Let's be clear about one thing here. Windows "security" or the lack of it is not the problem. If the machine is locked down utterly so that nothing can be installed, removed or modified Windows security is perfectly adequate. Unfortunately, nobody seems to want to run their computer this way. There is no security if the "user" can simply install any old thing they want, be it some new flash player with a bug in it, WeatherBug or a bot trojan. Signing code is not the answer - people aren't reading the messages that are displayed. You could have a page of text displayed when a trojan is installed that says in eight different ways "this will take over your computer and make it ours" and people would install it.

    The answer is pretty clear. General purpose computers that can have software installed are a tool that must be monitored, controlled and administered. Giving one to a user and leaving them alone with it is a reciepe for disaster. Just like the disaster with spam, botnets and viruses we are seeing right now.

    1. Re:ISP's half the problem by tppublic · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The answer is pretty clear. General purpose computers that can have software installed are a tool that must be monitored, controlled and administered. Giving one to a user and leaving them alone with it is a reciepe for disaster. Just like the disaster with spam, botnets and viruses we are seeing right now.

      I'm sure there are many large companies - ones that would love to protect the status quo - that would greatly support your proposal.

      I think what you propose is crazy.

      You have failed to follow through the implementation and resulting consequences of this action.

      The problem isn't only general purpose computers, it is general purpose processors running general purpose operating systems. Making it 'embedded' doesn't necessarily solve the problem. For example, there have been vulnerabilities in various routers over the past few years, and your action would not solve those issues. You provide no evidence that preventing user installation will protect the system in any fashion. The system would still have underlying x86, PPC, ARM or MIPS processor which could run arbitrary code.

      First, how do you allow people to get a system where they can write software? It is both systematically difficult, and is a practical impossibility with current systems. Given that many products have some form of scripting built in (including Microsoft Office, and about every version of *nix there is), it is difficult to prevent someone who is even marginally capable from writing software. For example, when I was a university student, there were strict policies that prevented the compilation of software on the community Unix system (Sun servers at the time). However, given that sh, csh, and tcsh were all available on the system, I could perform just about any action I wanted on that system, as far as software is concerned. That's not to say it wasn't slow compared to a compiled program (it WAS), but it was almost impossible for them to detect or prevent.

      One potential (and partial) solution to this is so-called the 'trusted computing' model, which would only allow 'certified' software to run on a computer. I posit without proof that the challenge of preventing ANY method of forging electronic certifications is very difficult. Computational infeasibility can be worked around simply by having one person in the system walk off with a legal certificate. Look at how the Mongolians eventually got through the Great Wall of China. If I recall the stories correctly, they simply bribed some guards. Reducing the system leakage to zero is not practical (nor is it beneficial, given that there are countless 'business people' working in marketing and finance who develop their own scripts to automate their work).

      Also, software development is valuable and available world-wide. The ability to go overseas to get work done is completely possible in the software engineering world. If only one country or region places the restriction you propose (I guarantee developing countries will ignore your restriction), then those countries are at a competitive disadvantage. Their next generation will ALSO be at a competitive disadvantage, because they will not develop the appropriate skills. Some of the best programmers do NOT come from formal education in computer science.

      The problem we actually have is the lack of incentive to fix the problem.

      The user who's machine is infected has no large incentive to help the problem. ... and the ISP just ignores the issue. So we need there to be penalties to having an infected machine. The ISPs can then sell a form of monitoring (effectively insurance, a wildly profitable business) to users who do not want to or have the skills to do their own monitoring. I recognize the challenge of dealing with international sites remains.

      The companies have no incentive to change, either. The pressures that exist to release software combined with the lack of any material negative effect on software vendors for producing bad software c

    2. Re:ISP's half the problem by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >There is no security if the "user" can simply install any old thing they want, be it some new flash player with a bug in it, WeatherBug or a bot trojan.

      Not on today's OSes and architectures, but those aren't the only possibilities.

      Moving away from the assumption that software is trustable would be a great start. Why does my web browser have authority to overwrite my hosts file, just because I do and I'm the one logged in while it's running? Why does my email client have authority to launch executables?

      Operating systems that enforce per-program restrictions do have a terrible record of being hard to use, and eventually someone will tell downloaders "remove jumper J4 to disable mandatory access control so you can install our dancing cursors.

  14. Don't call it a botnet by davidwr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Would a botnet by any other name smell just as sour?

    Probably not.

    If you'd called it a distributed asset-monitoring and -control system and given it a fancy acronym like DAMACS or something, it would've been a better sell.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  15. Re:Spelling Nazi by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

    Though you may have learned that the plural of 'octopus' is 'octopi' and the plural of 'cactus' is 'cacti', the plural of 'virus' is viruses, not 'virii'.

    If you use the logic "-us" => "-i", then we should have "virus" => "viri". Where the heck do people get the extra i?

    Math-oriented people must be familiar with "radius" => "radii", but it does follow the same logic with the extra i already there in the singular form. Then again, "virii" is funny in the way that it emphasizes incorrect spelling. It's even more funny when used by someone pretending to work with computers where typos are much more dangerous than in natural languages.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  16. Two families??? by Vexler · · Score: 2, Funny

    I thought they were Symantec and AVG.

    Oh, you mean *PUBLICLY* acknowledged virus writers?

  17. Re:"Or so I hear." by Spazntwich · · Score: 2, Funny

    If I were posting seriously, I would have.

    You get a lot of blank stares in casual conversation, don't you?

  18. Laziness as far as I can tell by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I run in to two groups that make up the majority of "not updated" systems:

    1) People who won't do any manual steps at all to update. Every so often, Windows has an update that needs you to interact with it. Rather than autoinstalling it'll just put the little "You've got updates" icon in your sys tray and pop up a bubble about it from time to time. However some people just refuse to deal with that. A couple clicks is more than they are willing to do. Totally automated is ok, but they can't be bothered to do anything more.

    2) However an even larger number don't want their system to reboot. Tons of those at work. They have something or other running continuously that they can't be bothered to save the state on. So they turn off the updates so that it won't reboot. Yes, really.

    That accounts for at least 90% of the no-update people I run across. There's a small percentage that won't do it because they read on some forum that some guy had a problem with an update and they are convinced Microsoft will break their system, but most are just lazy as hell.

  19. Re:White hat "mal'-ware? by orclevegam · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is a classic case of this that happened IIRC at MIT on one of the early networks. Some bright person wrote a small worm that went around and performed regular updates to the systems. All went well for a few months or so, but then a previously unknown bug in the worm caused it to go nuts and brought the network down HARD. In a similar vein, as an example of how things can go wrong, there's a famous story of someone (seem to remember him being connected with NSA or CIA or one of them... son of the director?) who wrote a worm that didn't have a payload in it to see if he could do it. It was supposed to send a couple copies of itself out, propogate for a bit, then erase itself. A bug in the logic however made it bombard the network attempting to propogate which resulted in one of the first DDOS attacks, even if un-intentional.

    The reason in short of why you don't see any white hat mal-ware is because the risk is just too great that something can go wrong. It's better to come up with a more robust solution to the problem, rather than introducing another element into the mix that is already on shaky ground to begin with.

    --
    Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
  20. Re:"Or so I hear." by karnal · · Score: 3, Funny

    Are you trying to say he/she works at Radio Shack?

    Oh wait, that'd be giving blank stares.... nevermind.

    --
    Karnal
  21. Redone bot runs on Linux by flyingfsck · · Score: 2, Informative

    Those SSH password attacks spread Linux based Spambots. I have repaired a handful of servers in the USA and Singapore that suffered infections. The Redone spambot targets the tens of thousands of indentical systems on server farms, of which some are sure to have bad passwords. Once it has set up shop it spewes out enormous amounts of spam. It is managed through IRC.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  22. Re:Detection Question by B5_geek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Port monitoring.

    Unusual activity on non-standard ports. Atleast thats how I discovered it at my last job. Open up a packet sniffer, let it pull in traffic for a little while, then investigate.

    Smarter worms use standard ports, but then you tell but unusual traffic patterns. (ie, why does "Bob the idiots" computer keep sending 2k of data to pron-iz-gud.com 50 times a minute??)

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
  23. Re:White hat "mal'-ware? by TheBig1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think you are referring to this

  24. Re:Automated Trolling System by EugeneK · · Score: 3, Informative

    do not click above link unless you want your browser hijacked - very nasty!