Kurt Vonnegut Jr. Dies At 84

At least twenty-two readers took the trouble to make sure we knew that Kurt Vonnegut has died at 84. From the Times obituary: "Kurt Vonnegut, whose dark comic talent and urgent moral vision in novels like 'Slaughterhouse-Five,' 'Cat's Cradle' and 'God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater' caught the temper of his times and the imagination of a generation, died last night in Manhattan... Mr. Vonnegut suffered irreversible brain injuries as a result of a fall several weeks ago, according to his wife, Jill Krementz." Reader SPK adds: "He will be remembered not only as a great writer, but also as a staunch civil libertarian (long-term member of the ACLU) and as a 'mainstream/literary' author who integrated science fiction concepts into his writing. So it goes."

Comments

Bokononist last rites

[djdead]

God made mud.
God got lonesome.
So God said to some of the mud, "Sit up!"
"See all I've made," said God, "the hills, the sea, the sky, the stars."
And I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
Lucky me, lucky mud.
I, mud, sat up and saw what a nice job God had done.
Nice going God.

Re:Bokononist last rites

[mstahl]

I wonder if he died while thumbing his nose at God.... It would seem a fitting gesture.

Re:Bokononist last rites

[Bill Wong]

God made mud.
God got lonesome.
So God said to some of the mud, "Sit up!"
"See all I've made," said God, "the hills, the sea, the sky, the stars."
And I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
Lucky me, lucky mud.
I, mud, sat up and saw what a nice job God had done.
Nice going, God.
Nobody but you could have done it, God! I certainly couldn't have.
I feel very unimportant compared to You.
The only way I can feel the least bit important is to think of all the mud that didn't even get to sit up and look around.
I got so much, and most mud got so little.
Thank you for the honor!
Now mud lies down again and goes to sleep.
What memories for mud to have!
What interesting other kinds of sitting-up mud I met!
I loved everything I saw!
Good night.
I will go to heaven now.
I can hardly wait...
To find out for certain what my wampeter was...
And who was in my karass...
And all the good things our karass did for you.
Amen.

Re:Bokononist last rites

[hey!]

I wonder if he died while thumbing his nose at God.... It would seem a fitting gesture.

The inability to conceive of a God who would find that amusing is the biggest reason that belief is on the decline.

The idea of an omnipotent God who creates a creature capable of reason, then throws an eternal hissy fit when that creature doesn't spend all his time telling God how wonderful He is... Well it seems like rather insecure behavior for an all powerful, all loving being.

A God who didn't want anybody in heaven unless they had the spunk to spit in His eye would make more sense. So Vonnegut, you're in. Give my regards to Twain when you see him.

Re:Bokononist last rites

[eln]

This reminds me of a sign I pass every morning on my way to work. It is a sign for a Muslim Community Center. Now, I'm not picking on Muslims here, I'm sure there are plenty of Christian churches with similar signage. Anyway, the sign says something to the effect of "Men were created to worship God."

Every time I pass that sign, it strikes me as funny. After all, how insecure does God have to be to go to all the trouble of creating an entirely new species just to tell him how great he is? Couldn't he have saved himself a lot of trouble by standing in front of a mirror every morning doing self assurance exercises, a la Stuart Smalley? Or maybe some good old fashioned Prozac?

Re:Bokononist last rites

[kripkenstein]

[...] the sign says something to the effect of "Men were created to worship God." [...] how insecure does God have to be to go to all the trouble of creating an entirely new species just to tell him how great he is?

Well, you correctly see that possibility as ridiculous. But monotheists (the 3 major monotheistic religions are perhaps similar enough in that respect) would also see it as ridiculous. So really, you are misunderstanding what they mean when they put up a sign saying "Men were created to worship God."

It isn't that an omnoipotent god benefits from it somehow, of course he doesn't. To say otherwise is blasphemy, even, for monotheists. However, they believe that the natural state for human beings is to worship god. In other words, people benefit from worshipping god, not vice versa. Note that the quoted sign can be understood both ways.

Of course, you can raise skeptical doubt about why god would create people at all, and why worshipping him would be good for them. Such doubts are natural, and indeed the major monotheistic religions have had centuries of debate about these topics. So, my point is that the monotheistic belief system (speaking generally) makes more sense than your misinterpretation of that particular sign.

(To prevent misunderstandings, I am a complete atheist.)

Re:Bokononist last rites

[C0y0t3]

I have to disagree with your interpretation of a pretty straightforward phrase, "men were created to worship god". Although it could be seen as meaning what you suggest, that men benefit from worship, the statement is obvously designed to be at least initially interpretted as "the purpose for which men were created was to worship god, god created us to worship him". You have to bend over pretty far backward to see the other interpretation as primary, but most religious people probably perform these sorts of logical contortions without batting an eye daily if not continuously. theres no need to justify them, controversy is supposed to occur. they are not content with your atheism

Re:Bokononist last rites

[geekoid]

Why is it that atheists know theology better then the worshipers?

Re:Bokononist last rites

[bkr1_2k]

Because Atheists question, and read. "Believers" simply believe, and by doing so think that all the questions are already answered.

I can't say who's right, but I can certainly say I raise my kids to question everything, even me, if they don't understand it.

Re:Bokononist last rites

[Johnny5000]

Why is it that atheists know theology better then the worshipers?

I think learning enough about theology is probably enough to turn anyone into an atheist.
Read enough holy books, and you'll realize they're lovely fictional works that do contain some generally good lessons, but couldn't possibly be the work of a superhuman being.

Re:Bokononist last rites

[kripkenstein]

Why is it that atheists know theology better then the worshipers?

Do you mean, why do I presume to understand religion better than a person who believes in it? Or, on the contrary, do you mean that the believers are misled about their own beliefs? I'm not sure.

In any case, I think that knowledgable people know more about everything. A learned believer, or a learned atheist, will know about the same. But the vast majority of people are unlearned in such matters. As a consequence, the majority of believers do not fully understand the complexities of their religion, while all of the atheists who are interested enough to learn about religion will know quite a bit (but exactly the same as the learned believers). That may be misleading at first glance, of course.

Thanks for the good reads, Kurt

[drewzhrodague]

Thanks for the good reads, Kurt. Time to go through my bookshelf, and do a little rediscovery. Thanks so much.

Re:Thanks for the good reads, Kurt

[Scott7477]

A big part of my appreciation for Vonnegut lies in the fact that his work has been accepted as literature by the literary elites while including elements of science fiction. Typically science fiction is not considered to be literature.

Re:Thanks for the good reads, Kurt

[drinkypoo]

Typically science fiction is not considered to be literature.

"writings in which expression and form, in connection with ideas of permanent and universal interest, are characteristic or essential features, as poetry, novels, history, biography, and essays." ("literature." Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. 12 Apr. 2007. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/literature> .)

"Imaginative or creative writing, especially of recognized artistic value" ("literature." The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004. 12 Apr. 2007. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/literature> .)

By my reading of the dictionary, the genre isn't significant. Or are you talking about what some isolated intellectuals with ivory towers up their asses told you the word meant?

Re:Thanks for the good reads, Kurt

[Moofie]

A big part of my appreciation of Vonnegut has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what a bunch of "literary elites" think about anything.

As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single time in my life that I thought to myself, "Gee! I wonder what the literary elites would think about that?"

Re:Thanks for the good reads, Kurt

[Mister Whirly]

"As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single time in my life that I thought to myself, "Gee! I wonder what the literary elites would think about that?""

I was just thinking this after I took a huge dump.


P.S. They loved it. Seems they always heap praise on utter shit.

So it goes

[WormholeFiend]

and another thing, Vonnegut... I'm gonna stop payment on the check!

I'd easily have traded all of hollywood,

[Spazntwich]

to give that man 10 more years.

The world is truly poorer for his loss. :-(

Re:I'd easily have traded all of hollywood,

[Aladrin]

What if ... What if we already did? Would explain a lot of things about Hollywood.

Kurt Vonnegut JUNIOR?

[objekt]

Oh man, all this time I thought Kurt Vonnegut AND his son Kurt Vonnegut Jr. were both authors. Now they are BOTH dead!

Well

[Anonymous Coward]

Kurt's up in heaven now..

Re:Well

[jamie]

Anonymous cowards can be funny sometimes. By way of explanation, here's an excerpt from Vonnegut's book God Bless You, Dr. Kevorkian:

I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without any expectation of regards or punishments after I'm dead. My German-American ancestors, the earliest of whom settled in our Middle West about the time of our Civil War, called themselves "Freethinkers," which is the same sort of thing. My great grandfather Clemens Vonnegut wrote, for example, "If what Jesus said was good, what can it matter whether he was God or not?"

I am honorary president of the American Humanist Association, having succeeded the late, great, spectacularly prolific writer and scientist, Dr. Isaac Asimov in that essentially functionless capacity. At an A.H.A. memorial service for my predecessor I said, "Isaac is up in Heaven now." That was the funniest thing I could have said to an audience of humanists. It rolled them in the aisles. Mirth! Several minutes had to pass before something resembling solemnity could be restored.

Re:Well

[sherpajohn]

'Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead.' - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. (1922-2007)

Kurt Vonnegut dies at 84.

[penp]

So it goes.

from wikiquote

[stoolpigeon]

If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC

        * Vonnegut's Blues For America 07 January, 2006 Sunday Herald

So it goes

[Megane]

My best Vonnegut moment was when I was watching that Rodney Dangerfield movie "Back To School" in a theatre. In one scene, there's a knock at the door, and Rodney opens the door, and it's a curly-haired guy who is his tutor for the writings of Vonnegut. That's when I started laughing. Three seconds later, after he says that he is Kurt Vonnegut, the rest of the audience starts laughing.

Re:a little less love

[dr_dank]

So I guess I shouldn't do this:

*

Re:a little less love

[grub]

Heheheh, it's the favicon for his page. :)

Not Just Religion. Goodbye, Dear Man.

[Philip K Dickhead]

Tiger got to hunt
Eagle got to fly
Man got to ask his self
Why, why, why?

Tiger got to sleep
Eagle got to land
Man got to tell his self
He Understand

--Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

subject line

[Mahtar]

man that's too bad I really liked Nirvana

Re: Where to start?

[enharmonix]

Slaughterhouse Five

Re: Where to start?

[DjMd]

Actually I think this is the worst book to start with (it has other charcters in it for starters...)
Plus Vonnegut himself gave it a C.
(from wikipedia)In Chapter 18 of his book Palm Sunday "The Sexual Revolution," Vonnegut grades his own works. He states that the grades "do not place me in literary history" and that he is comparing "myself with myself." The grades are as follows:
* Player Piano: B
* The Sirens of Titan: A
* Mother Night: A
* Cat's Cradle: A-plus
* God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater: A
* Slaughterhouse-Five: A-plus
* Welcome to the Monkey House: B-minus
* Happy Birthday, Wanda June: D
* Breakfast of Champions: C
* Slapstick: D
* Jailbird: A
* Palm Sunday: C

Slaughterhouse-Five or Cat's Cradle are both good first books.

Re:Not Just Religion. Goodbye, Dear Man.

[DjMd]

Vonnegut from "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater,"
"Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies - 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.' "

my feeble attempt at an epitaph

"Goodbye, Mr. Vonnegut. God bless you, Mr. Vonnegut.
You told us about ice, you told us about fire. You made us laugh and taught us to think. Your time here was too short. But you gave us a lot more than one rule, you gave us someone to root for."

I'm sorry its no Vonnegut...

My favourite Vonnegut passage

[rworsnop]

From Slaughterhouse 5. Billy is having one of his "episodes" whilst watching television:

"American planes, full of holes and wounded men and corpses took off backwards from an airfield in England. Over France, a few German fighter planes flew at them backwards, sucked bullets and shell fragments from some of the planes and crewmen. They did the same for wrecked American bombers on the ground, and those planes flew up backwards to join the formation.

"The formation flew backwards over a German city that was in flames. The bombers opened their bomb bay doors, exerted a miraculous magnetism which shrunk the fires, gathered them into cylindrical steel containers, and lifted the containers into the bellies of the planes.

"When the bombers got back to their base, the steel cylinders were taken from the racks and shipped back to the United States of America, where factories were operating night and day, dismantling the cylinders, separating the dangerous contents into minerals. ... The minerals were them shipped to specialists in remote areas. It was their business to put them into the ground, to hide them cleverly, so they would never hurt anybody ever again.

"The American fliers turned in their uniforms, became high school kids."

Re:RIP, but vastly overrated

[natophonic]

Ah yes. If only our youth would concern themselves not with creativity, non-conformity, and critical thinking, but instead the Virtues and Values befitting a Christian Nation. Instead of wasting their minds upon the disspative slanders of a crypto-communist like Vonnegut, it would behoove them to instead read a Great Book by an Excellent Mind.