Slashdot Mirror
New Sony DVDs Not Working In Some Players
An anonymous reader writes "It seems that the most recent DVDs released by Sony — specifically Stranger Than Fiction, Casino Royale, and The Pursuit of Happyness — have some kind of 'feature' that makes them unplayable on many DVD players. This doesn't appear to be covered by the major media yet, but this link to a discussion over at Amazon gives a flavor of the problems people are experiencing. A blogger called Sony and was told the problem is with the new copy protection scheme, and they do not intend to fix it. Sony says it's up to the manufacturers to update their hardware."
I have a Pioneer DVD player, maybe second generation. The thing is huge, and probably something like 8 years old. Casino Royale works just fine in it. Granted, that sucker will play just about anything you throw in there, from DivX to DVD +/- RW. Best DVD player I ever bought, and one of the reasons why I still only buy Pioneer DVD players. Makes you wonder about what's in some of the other newer DVD players if my old one can play Casino Royale with no problems...?
If you're having trouble playing them on the legit side, why not just rip them? Besides the moral issues, you could burn and watch then destroy the copy.....
2 options: Ripit4me (in conjunction with dvddecrypter) or dvdfab decrypter....
*ahem*verified on Stranger Than Fiction*ahem*
Karnal
The Audioholics forum had a thread late last month about DVDs that wouldn't play properly. There are other problem titles mentioned as well: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.ph p?t=30819
Quote from some web-page or another...
"No single company "owns" DVD. The official specification was developed by a consortium of ten companies: Hitachi, JVC, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, Philips, Pioneer, Sony, Thomson, Time Warner, and Toshiba. Representatives from many other companies also contributed in various working groups. In May 1997, the DVD Consortium was replaced by the DVD Forum , which is open to all companies, and as of February 2000 had over 220 members. Time Warner originally trademarked the DVD logo, and has since assigned it to the DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation (DVD FLLC)."
Looks like there isn't any kind of single company that can really rule on this and say, those aren't officially formatted DVDs... The fact that Sony was a main developer in the consortium would also probably make it that much harder to revoke any kind of "DVD" stamp from these disks...
These discs feature Sony's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARccOS_Protection ARCCOS, which doesn't work with some DVD players and cannot be ripped by any program under Linux.
Stranger Than Fiction, Casino Royale, and The Pursuit of Happyness
There you go, now stop buying those darn DVD's and complaining that someone will crack the copy protection anyway. We KNOW, before it's even in stores you can get full DVD rips (yes, you can even get the full 4,7G download's if you look hard enough). And if I buy a DVD that doesn't play in my machine, without going through stuff like MacTheRipper or so (Johnny English for example) I return it to wherever I bought it and say it won't play (I take my PowerBook with me) and demand a refund.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
I wonder if the new DRM's been successful at keeping those movies off the torrent sites. Because if the article's to be believed, it's certainly been successful at pissing off paying customers, and what would be the point of doing that if the movies were still being pirated anyway?
—Tickletaint (forced to post logged-out due to modbombing)
The irony is that Sony Electronics, purchased what became Sony Pictures because they had just spent a shed load of money developing DAT and MiniDISC for the media companies to refuse to release content on the new formats killing them dead. The idea was if they owned content then this would never again be a problem. Unfortunately they allowed the tail to wag the dog and it has all but ruined Sony electronics.
The Bond movies have always poked fun at themselves.
Not really. The first two (Dr. No and From Russia With Love) didn't, although they did have a couple of humorous moments (as did Fleming's books -- and look at Fleming's choice of character names, particularly the females). The later ones maybe a little. The Roger Moore Bond flicks, on the other hand, went overboard in making a farce of it all.
I enjoyed this Casino Royale as a return to the Bond roots. (The other Casino Royale, with David Niven, Peter Sellers, Woody Allen, etc was also a farce, but it had some redeeming qualities (Joanna Pettet, Ursula Andress, Barbara Bouchet). Nice soundtrack, too.
-- Alastair
I don't know how it works in the US and elsewhere in the world but in the UK we have consumer protection legislation which says if a product is not 'fit for purpose' then we have a legal right to a full refund.
Yeah, we used to have that in the U.S. We also used to have fair use rights.
Just thinking about it, if they're selling them using the DVD label identifying it as a dvd, doesn't it legally have to be playable in dvd compatible players?
This will depend very much on the local laws. In Australia a DVD that fails to play in a significant number of DVD players meets the statutory definition of unmerchantability, which requires goods to be suitable for every purpose for which they are normally bought (unlike other places where they have to be suitable for just one of the purposes for which they are normally bought). This will give the consumer the right to a refund, but won't lead to any penalty. There is also an argument that applying the label "DVD" to the product (or even selling it in a manner that makes it seem like it is a DVD) is misleading conduct for which anybody could apply to the Federal Court to get an injunction to prevent the product from being sold in that way.
This one is better:
Casino Royale
The link you posted has comments that the torrent is not authentic. Plus this one has a lot of seeds/peers.
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
ARccOS discs like Sony's can be played under mplayer by adding "-ss 10" to the mplayer command line. As a bonus, you get to skip the first 10 seconds of logo pollution in the movie.
Since mplayer can rip anything that it can play, it goes without saying that ARccOS is as usual utterly ineffective in stopping piracy while causing no end of grief for legitimate customers.
For those who have missed the joke here, check out the Bush speech where he uses this saying
You would be within your rights to be in possession of that downloaded copy (as long as you maintain ownership of the DVD as long as you keep the copy), but you would still be guilty of distribution of copyrighted material (a crime in the US; a civil liability in most of Europe) by participating in the download process.
In other words, you're still not free and clear, but at the same time, it's unlikely that any court would find in the plaintiff's favor since you did buy the DVD (unless you did the "good" thing and let the download continue to seed for hours/days after completing, in which case you would clearly be distributing content illegally and even a sympathetic court would have no real alternative but to side with the prosecution).
I have an ancient player, probably 6 years old and Casino Royale and Stranger than Fiction (from Blockbuster) work 100%.
Maybe I'm wrong, but like some "CDs" in the past that incorporated some copy protection and couldn't carry the CD logo/seal any longer on the cover, wouldn't the same thing apply here? Can Sony legimitately still call this thing a DVD anymore without being sued for fraud?
Perhaps the DVD-Video logo, but it's still a DVD. You can get software on DVDs. You can't play them in your video player, but they are still DVDs.
Actually, it's the same thing with CDs. CDs with copy protection are still CDs; they just can't carry the CDDA (CD Digital Audio) logo.
Have you seen the mixed martial arts ratings (UFC, K1, etc)? It's wrestling in another guise.
No, not really. Wrestling is an 'exhibition' and the results are pre-determined.
MMA, on the other hand, is state-regulated. In most states, the state boxing commission regulates the sport and has a representative on-hand at every MMA match, and any promoter who got caught fixing a fight the way they do in wrestling would likely lose his license.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
And that's what they want you to think. And it's understandable if people don't know all the guidelines that go into those logos. However, the bottom line is that if you buy a DVD and it doesn't play in your player, you should return it and demand your money back. Let the stores deal with the manufacturers.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
My parents rented Casino Royal, and I spent about 2 hours trying to get it to work on my laptop. My options became use a dvd player (which I have at home, but not school) or to download the movie. Needless to say, I don't rent when I'm not at home.
Maybe I watched too much History Channel, but 300 was crap for me. Aside from various outright historical fuckups (300 spartans + 1400 other greeks, some random Persian payoff, all greeks being pretty much NAMBLA members, etc...), they decided to make Xexres an 8ft tall... queer sexual deviant, alone with having crab claw monsters at his command. The Departed was the next last film I saw, and I considered it a thousand times better.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I'm ripping Casino Royale as I post this. It takes a little longer but it *CAN* be done. You just edit dvdbackup so it ignores read errors from the media. (Did I just violate the DMCA?)
I doubt it... I've been able to rip both Stranger Than Fiction and Casino Royale with no problems using the latest beta release of MacTheRipper in "Feature Only" mode. My guess is the new scheme is meant to prevent casual ripping rather than reduce downloads.
"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello
Perhaps the DVD-Video logo, but it's still a DVD. You can get software on DVDs. You can't play them in your video player, but they are still DVDs.
Actually, it's the same thing with CDs. CDs with copy protection are still CDs; they just can't carry the CDDA (CD Digital Audio) logo.
Not according to the Red Book standard.
There are a couple avenues of consumer remedy for buying one of these non-standard discs. First, warranties. When you purchase a CD or something purporting to be a CD, then its failure is a breach of general warranty for fitness. Second, if "CD" is a trademark, then selling a CD-like device as-if it were a CD can violate the trademark, and the trademark holder can pursue a remedy against the misrepresenter. Finally, there are statutory consumer protection acts which entitled consumers to remedies for violations of standards in product quality.
You're right to say that, colloquially, a CD with copy protection is still a CD. It serves the same purpose, looks the same, and often functions in the exact same way as a "true" CD. However, a CD-like disc with copy protection is legally distinct from a CD as "Compact Disc" in terms of the warranty for fitness, trademark holder rights, and consumer protection laws.
YMMV.
oh btw just to prevent folks from using tinyurl as a logic bomb visit http://tinyurl.com/preview.php to enable a "safe mode". This page allows you to grab a cookie that shows you the url before you go to the url (useful for oh affilate urls friends of The GOAT and other funky things)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
If it says "Title 1 of 99" - congratulations! (ignore the "Track" info)
Note the most humorous thing about this copyright structure is it's glaring simplicity to avoid, much like the "marker over the encrypted" sector trick - they came out with this idea, and immediately ripper programmers thought "oh well, we'll just skip any unreferenced track." doom9 is littered with with forum info and workarounds that were found immediately.
I don't blame Sony for trying (it is their job to try to protect their material - despite the flames I may get for saying that), but any exec that creates a copyright strategy that can be so easily circumnavigated while alienating customers should be immediately fired.
I've never been hit with a restocking fee for a defective DVD or game. Typically to avoid trouble I've just accepted store credit but complaining that something doesn't work at all will get you an immediate exchange/credit.
Restocking only comes into play if you change your mind.
Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means
The difference being that the discs aren't unmerchantable on a per-unit basis, but on the aggregate. Retailer return policies are for one-off problems, not for class issues. A court of law is the proper resolution of this issue, and not abuse of customer service policies. You can't return a bottle of Advil because it didn't get rid of your headache--but if you have reason to believe there's something wrong with the Advil, you can certainly take that up with the pharmaceutical company.
The discs work as designed. They don't work as advertised (being that they are labeled DVDs), but retailers are not responsible for the claims made on the packaging of products they sell. Your ability to return a defective DVD is intended solely to allow for the replacement of manufacturing errors. Otherwise, you could buy and rip all of your DVDs and then return them because "they don't work on my Linux computer." No one has ever found that DVDs *must* play under Linux.
This absolutely is an advertising issue along with an implied warranty of fitness issue. But the retail customer service remedy is not the correct one. It's the easiest way for customers to get their money back, but it merely treats the symptoms and harms an uninvolved third party.
You know it seems to me that if you're in physical possession of a DVD, then it's not illegal to rip it to your computer... Making copies of DVD's isn't illegal, distributing them is.
Might want to recheck the Digital Millenium Copyright Act if you're living in the States - deliberately breaching copyright protections such as exist on DVDs is indeed illegal.
Swap at store, still no joy. Try to return, get hit with restocking fee - take DVD home irate.
Do a charge back. Being charged for a product which fraudulently claims to be compatible with an industry standard (DVD) is fraud. Expecting you to pay fees associated with that fraud is fraud. The credit card issuer will more than likely understand that and issue the chargeback. If the store needs money to cover their restocking fee, they need to contact the manufacturer for producing a defective product. The problem exists between the retail outlet and the manufacturer and not between the retail outlet and the customer.
Best of all, performing a chargeback is a great way for the retail stores to feel the pressure and pass it on to the manufacturer. Surprisingly, merchant associations have fairly heavy clout when they pull in the same direction. Try to make it work for you instead of against you.
Here you go.
Maybe the law is different in your part of the world. Notice this...
They must also be fit for any specific or particular purpose made known to the seller at the time of the agreement.
So, if someone tells me in advance that this DVD will not play in certain machines then I am not within my rights to demand a refund. Does this generally happen where you are? I have started to see stickers on certain CDs that tell me that the CD will not play in some CD-ROM style drives. Fine! I know and can make my choice. Otherwise, I am in the right. The product is not fit for the purpose described (it is not difficult to argue that a DVD is not fit for purpose if it does not play in all DVD players, both display the DVD logo). You should consider this when you write your 'sales policies'.
It's a great program and hats off to the company for offering it for free.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch