Slashdot Mirror
New Motherboards Disallowing IDE Booting?
wattsup asks: "It seems that bootable IDE ports are disappearing on newer motherboards. I recently purchased an
MSI G965M-FI motherboard for a system upgrade. Overall the board is pretty good with lots of features, but it had one unexpected 'feature' that I didn't know about when I bought it. The PATA100 IDE port won't allow you to install an operating system from an attached CD-ROM. Does anybody know if this is an issue that can be fixed by
upgrading the BIOS, or is this hard-wired into the IDE controller?"
"While its on their website, MSI doesn't tell you this on the retail packaging, until you break the seal on the static wrap and look at the motherboard. There, with a tiny label placed over the IDE connector, they inform you 'This IDE
does not support OS installation in hard drive'.
This made my out-of-box experience rather maddening, as I had to get a USB based CD-ROM to install a fresh copy of XP. This seems like a pretty lame way to save money, disabling functionality on an IDE port that's included. Some research shows me that other manufacturers are doing the same thing. Why?"
This made my out-of-box experience rather maddening, as I had to get a USB based CD-ROM to install a fresh copy of XP. This seems like a pretty lame way to save money, disabling functionality on an IDE port that's included. Some research shows me that other manufacturers are doing the same thing. Why?"
Yeah, I've yet to hear a 100% success story -- on Windows or Linux -- with those JMicron IDE controllers. They are absolute pieces of shit, and the drivers are even worse than the controllers.
Motherboards based on the intel 965 chipset do not have ide (pata) ports unless the mb maker adds a discrete chip. It then becomes a matter of cost to add simple ide support or a full blown ide host akin to a full scsi type host that supports booting.
As most boards are configured, the bios could boot off of an ide based DVD drive, but when the modern OS gets control, it will not see the ide ports since it isn't part of the chipset. Just like scsi needs drivers (or modules) loaded, the new ide will need these too. Ultimately, intel made the decision to use the pins needed for 2 separate ide ports for many more sata ports.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
To save a nickel a unit of course.
(Which is understandable given that they need to maximise profit and removing features that are almost unused in their target market is a good way to do it. Real engineers don't overspec!)
Beep beep.
Why not pick up a SATA CD/DVD drive? You can probably get an unboxed OEM for about $30. You might also be able to get a SATA -> IDE adaptor, but I don't have any experience with them.
It's very difficult to be backwards compatible with everything. Ignoring cost, it adds complexity and difficulty to the development process; and could potentially reduce reliability. As another poster in the thread added, Intel decided to go for more SATA ports in the chipset.
Let's face it, it's 2007, and IDE is quickly on its way out. Why should we hamper a chipset with functionality needed so that you can save $30?
I do empasize with you. This weekend I picked up a Mac Pro, and much to my surprise, I can't run dual monitors unless both are digital. (I can't bear to part with my 17" CRT.) I tried transfering my PCI video card from my old desktop, but it seems that the Mac Pro doesn't use PCI.
Now if I could only get Windows Vista to run on my P100!
No, I will not work for your startup
Yeah, I've yet to hear a 100% success story -- on Windows or Linux -- with those JMicron IDE controllers. They are absolute pieces of shit, and the drivers are even worse than the controllers.
I recently tossed a pair of USB external HD enclosures, with JMicron chips on the bridge boards, in the trash. Under heavy load the USB device would just drop off the bus. Warning: JMicron inside.
Me, throwing away hardware - that's pretty rare (ask my wife - the one time I throw away hardware it's because they hosed her photo album - she can't win). Also, lesson learned: don't run RAID on two of the same bridge chips - they're likely to fail at the same time.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Firstly, should this really be posted on /. ? This is a support/hardware forum posting.
/. Now I know to research IDE bootability before I buy my next mobo, whereas before, I would have taken it for granted since it's something I've been able to do for well over a decade.
Yes. It's definitely news for nerds. I'm a pretty big nerd, and I wouldn't have known about this had it not shown up on
Firstly, should this really be posted on /. ?
I believe it should. Reading all the comments so far, I've found out there's a feature-lacking controller chipset that at least one motherboard manufacturer uses without labelling this boot "feature" in a clear way on the packaging (without having to break the seals). I do buy motherboards on occasion, and I sure would have been frustrated to find this out on my own. If this is a new trend, then I prefer to hear about these kinds of issues beforehand.
Many times, what one thinks is a trend or a common way of thinking is news to everybody else. I had one slashdotter reply to me not long ago saying that IPMI was a standard now. Funny how that is, since I deal with Sun, HP, and IBM servers, and none of them use Intel's IPMI spec, at least as far as remote management is concerned. I don't think he meant to troll, I just think he got caught up in his own corner -- as probably happens to me in other areas too.
To me, this type of discussion is valuable. Many (most? almost all?) people still use PATA devices, and PATA devices are still being sold right alongside the SATA devices (and still possibly in greater quantities for PATA). There are a lot of people affected by this "trend" and possibly directly affected by this chipset.
If you're willing to pay more the $14 I'm guessing you could find a better drive. It's not like the cheapest drive Lite-On makes is your only choice -- I'm guessing most people buying an SATA optical drive would at least buy a DVD-ROM drive for the $3 price difference.
8 2E16812206001
Or for a whopping $9.99 you could buy an adapter and use whatever IDE drive you like:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N
This may not work with your board, but might be worth a try.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1