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Net Radio Appeal On Royalties Rejected

Station writes "The Copyright Royalty Board has rejected a request to reconsider its March decision to impose an onerous royalty schedule on Internet radio broadcasters. '"None of the moving parties have [sic] made a sufficient showing of new evidence or clear error or manifest injustice that would warrant rehearing," wrote the CRB in its decision.' The recording industry and its royalty collection organization SoundExchange are jubilant over the ruling. '"Our artists and labels look forward to working with the Internet radio industry — large and small, commercial and noncommercial — so that together we can ensure it succeeds as a place where great music is available to music lovers of all genres," said SoundExchange head Simson in a statement. Noble words, but after today's ruling — which will take effect on May 15 unless the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit agrees to hear an appeal — there probably won't be much of an Internet radio industry left for SoundExchange to work with.'"

36 of 298 comments (clear)

  1. Dammit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And Internet radio was the only radio left that didn't suck.

    1. Re:Dammit! by richlv · · Score: 2, Insightful

      i'm wondering, why not just dump all the artists that are dump enough to let somebody like that govern their work ?
      no sane artist would ever try to limit public appearance of his works, if he wants to promote them. getting tracks on the radio, any radio, is the best they can get - that improves their share of the "market" (meaning music that is listened to), which in turn increases other turnaround (concerts, merchandise, albums - in that order ;) ).

      so, if a part of the radio space dumps those artists, other, better artists get more chance to capitalise on this dumb decision.
      or i should have attempted to follow this more closely and they are imposing royalties independent of the content ?

      --
      Rich
  2. The whole point is to kill internet radio. by isaac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole point of this ruling *IS* to kill internet radio which poses the greatest threat to the vertically-integrated, homogeneous pop music environment that is the lifeblood of the RIAA. Without alternative venues for independent artists, the major label combine gets to pick the winners in the market. (Nevermind the detriment to the market itself - this is about controlling the whole pie, not the size of the pie.)

    Sometimes I find myself wishing the RIAA got everything they ever wanted, if only to see how their market collapses. Then I realize it's already happening.

    -Isaac

    --
    I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
    1. Re:The whole point is to kill internet radio. by isaac · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So it's still possible to have music on Internet radio, just not RIAA music.


      No. It's possible to have music on internet radio IF you as a webcaster have negotiated directly with the copyright owner for every piece of music you play. Otherwise, you're paying a license to SoundExchange, period. They administer the statutory license.

      Creative commons is about all that's left, since negotiating with individual artists (and songwriters) for every track is likely to be cost prohibitive. A nice guy might try to undercut SoundExchange by striking deals with indie labels and artists and then brokering these licenses to indie webcasters, but that would require a pretty enormous up-front investment for uncertain return - especially since you could rely on the RIAA and SoundExchange pulling out all the stops to shut you down.

      -Isaac

      --
      I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
    2. Re:The whole point is to kill internet radio. by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What happens when Apple decides to be that broker? They've already positioned themselves to be the next media goliath, and they're going to continue to get bigger (just like Google). And somehow I don't think Mr. Jobs is going to have a problem putting an investment up to do the same as SoundExchange, since at this point it would just be people and code (the rest is already built out a la iTunes).

      You hear me Mr. Jobs? Keep up the good work.

    3. Re:The whole point is to kill internet radio. by anagama · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Creative commons is about all that's left ...

      Except of course for the fact that the rest of the world is connected to the internet too. All this means is that internet radio stations move out of the US. It doesn't mean you won't be able to listen to internet radio.
      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  3. Lawyers Killed the Radio Star? by cdgod · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Can't blame em... Unfortunately the internet is now another accepted medium of distribution. Hopefully this opens the door to innovative licensing such as cost per listener, etc.

    --
    This .Sig is left intentionally humourless.
  4. Royalty by Cemu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't the whole basis of the royalty because it is a digital duplication, an exact copy, and that is why regular radio stations don't have to pay this royalty? If this is the case why don't HD radio stations have to pay this royalty? It is a digital broadcast is it not?

  5. Don McLean by lilomar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, bye, bye, Miss American pie...

    --
    The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
  6. Pandora by mark0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They clearly have no idea how much Pandora has done to sell me their product. I have actually purchased CDs I would never have known existed were it not for internet radio. They're killing the goose that lays golden eggs.

    1. Re:Pandora by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They clearly have no idea how much Pandora has done to sell me their product. I have actually purchased CDs I would never have known existed were it not for internet radio. They're killing the goose that lays golden eggs.

      They aren't trying to sell YOU their product. They are trying to sell their product to people with no true music taste. They want to sell them *whatever* they put out regardless of its quality. The only way to do this is to 100% control the delivery method so that they can control every aspect of the market from the beginning (ala American Idol).

      People that are looking to self-determine the path that their music tastes follow aren't likely to participate in a culture created entirely for them and that doesn't help the RIAA's mission at all.

    2. Re:Pandora by jonwil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      3 things:
      1.There is this belief among the RIAA that internet radio is a vehicle for piracy (i.e. people saving the songs and getting free copies)
      2.Internet radio often plays non RIAA music too
      and 3.The music that people listen to on internet radio and go and buy (even when its RIAA owned music) is not the music the RIAA wants you to buy.

    3. Re:Pandora by heinousjay · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My musical tastes have nothing to do with this discussion. Some people, in fact a lot of people, do genuinely like the music from the radio, MTV, and heaven forbid, American Idol. It's not your job to decide if their taste is worthwhile, and deriding it doesn't make you cool.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    4. Re:Pandora by honkycat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We're talking about law here. Don't try to bring right and wrong into it, it'll only confuse the real issues. :-)

  7. Re:Look on the bright side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    it will be consumed by spam first.

  8. International by kaje103 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What is to prevent people from just setting up internet radio servers overseas in areas that don't enforce copyright laws?

  9. boundaries by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This will only work against people and companies inside the United States; I predict that internet radio will still thrive, and the rest of the world will drive America's music tastes.

    1. Re:boundaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is exactly what irritates me about these stories. Why the panic?

      Internet radio will just move off-shore, and continue unaffected. I see it said again and again on Slashdot, but it doesn't seem to sink in. The internet does exist outside the US. And there's links between the different countries!

    2. Re:boundaries by DGolden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And those links cross the borders of countries at a relatively limited number of internet exchanges / peering points. Don't think that the Corporate Reich of America could never implement a "Great Firewall of the USA". And, unlike China, the CRA might even have the resources and technical know-how to make it work properly.

      --
      Choice of masters is not freedom.
    3. Re:boundaries by Windrip · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Community radio cannot move offshore.

  10. The RIAA looks forward to... by haakondahl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Working with our wholly-owned subsidiaries, who are of course exempt from paying royalties. What wholly-owned subsidiaries, you ask? Why, the very ones that the sustenance of this ruling has made possible.

    --
    Don't trust anyone under thirty.
  11. Obligatory star wars quote: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

    *Sigh*

  12. A one-person example by Morris+Thorpe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I just realized this.

    I am a big fan of RadioParadise.com. I have purchased a total of 15 CDs over the past year or so. All 15 (I kid you not) were by artists introduced to me by RP.
    In my case: No RP, no CDs. Especially now, you greedy pricks.

  13. Re:The real question by Korin43 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I believe the question is "Why does Internet Radio have to pay out the ass when normal radio only has to pay 'reasonable' royalties?" (Reasonable is of course up to interpretation)

  14. Re:The real question by Jahz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, why should there be no royalties for Internet radio when both play the same music? Good job knowing what you're talking about. Internet radio stations already had to pay royalties. This new ruling means they will pay far more expensive royalties. So expensive that it would cost more than terrestrial radio without nearly the same audience or revenue.
    --
    There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not.
  15. From TFA: by zaydana · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One thing that really surprised me after reading these comments first and then the article, is that stations can't just move to independent music. From TFA:

    5. Well... independent music is cool. Why not just play independent music?

    This is very important to understand, as lots of people see this as a solution. The statutory webcast license covers ANY copyright music, from the biggest labels, down to the smallest, and even independently-released music. Again, the license covers ANY copyright music. The copyright owner need NOT be part of SoundExchange or the RIAA. The ONLY exceptions to this are (A) direct deals with each and every sound recording copyright owner, (B) copyright owners that are willing to make a blanket "waive" of fees, or (C) non-copyright, public domain music.

    I guess that means that this is about more than just the RIAA controlling the industry - its about putting them out of business. Of course, me being an Australian, I understand that they can't really do that because there are many other countries where it costs a bit more to buy yourself a politician.

    And just for the record, one of my favorite stations is located in Switzerland anyway.

    1. Re:From TFA: by NormalVisual · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So why not form a non-profit corporation somewhat similar to SoundExchange, which would act as an intermediary to negotiate webcasting fees with a large number of non-RIAA copyright holders and with a stated charter to work towards the greatest distribution of the participating artists' works? They could have standard contracts for both rights holders and webcasters that would make everything all nice and legal, which given the economy of scale would save money for everyone involved. The individual webcasters could pay a reasonable yearly fee to this organization to fund its activities and to cover royalty payments without getting bogged down in a bunch of paperwork.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  16. That's fair by grasshoppa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've come to the conclusion that there is little I can do to stop the overwhelming tide of corporate interests or otherwise greedy minded individuals who control the world. That is, until even the sheeple of the world get annoyed. I figure that'll be about the time they interfere with american idol in some way or another. Or Grey's Anatomy. Until then, those of us with good intent are going to be continued to get kicked to the curb any time a large corporation with deep pockets want something.

    They say real life is nothing like school. They are wrong on one point: The bully still wins. Standing up to the bully gets you little more than a bloody nose and some sympathy.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
  17. Not too bright by AussieVamp2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Shut down internet radio = make less money, as those people are now paying you zero

    Shut down internet radio = people download more songs in copyright infringing manner rather than listen to a net radio stream

  18. Yet another incentive by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    To boost anonymity tech to keep the pigs at bay.

    --
    What?
  19. Re:Decision only sets compulsory rates by Percy_Blakeney · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The compulsory licensing rates will not kill internet radio: they simply provide terms and conditions of last resort for copyright owners and webcasters who cannot otherwise reach an agreement.

    Compulsory licenses are meant to create efficiencies in the marketplace, such that the radio stations don't need to try and negotiate licenses from every single copyright holder, thus lowering costs for everyone.

    Under your plan, though, the compulsory license would no longer engender efficiency; instead, it simply becomes a price ceiling. The radio stations will now have to dicker with every single record company over royalties, costing both groups immense time and money.

    What will the result be? Small stations will have to pay higher royalties, as they will not have the leverage in their negotiations that the mega-corporations (i.e. Clear Channel) do. This will eventually force the smaller players out of the market.

    Also, any independent artist or small record label will receive ZERO air-time, as it would prove too expensive to the radio stations to negotiate deals with all but the largest labels. Thus, the major labels will tighten their grip on the music industry.

    So, the small labels, independent artists, and small radio stations will all take a hit, and possibly disappear. Perhaps you don't think that is a bad thing, but I certainly do.

  20. UNRIAA? by msimm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hear a lot of comments along the lines of A) use creative commons B) go off shore c) direct negotiations with artists.

    I run a radio program. Both (depending on how many artists you'd like to feature or how often you'd like to update that) are unrealistic.

    Assuming independent artist *do* want to be heard (and I'd contend that they do) I think all that's missing to make this a powerful vehicle is any real organization behind it.

    Want to bad mouth the RIAA? Create something fucking better. I'd bet with enough exposure a lot of small/mid-sized artists and record labels would love to provide cohesive, clear (protective) rights for some kind of limited/promotional broadcasting.

    When I started my radio program I immediately began contacting artists, managers and labels directly. They didn't want to provide carte blanche permission. This is an industry and artists/(managers)/labels get taken advantage of. But they were more then eager to provide limited broadcast rights with proper guidelines that could easily be generalized pretty much across the board.

    If we like being lead by the balls by an organization we don't feel is treating us with respect, perfect that's *exactly* what we've got. But if you're fucking tired of this? Show them or stop whining.



    --
    Quack, quack.
  21. Re:The real question by freemywrld · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The statement that there are no small broadcast radio stations is simply untrue. You seem to have forgotten about the hundreds of small college radio stations, and non-profit community stations. Many of these would not be able to continue to operate if the same fees they are throwing at internet radio were applied to broadcast. Not to mention, many of these stations increase their base by broadcasting both over the air and on the internet. I wonder how these new fees affect stations that do both... are they getting double-screwed?

  22. No cultural/environmental biases on preferences? by Mathinker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's why the really delicious dog meat those Chinese are eating really makes you salivate, eh?

    You (probably) don't really know whether you like the taste of dog meat, or not, do you? It's because the culture of the society in which you live prevents you from having the experience of tasting it. And it also has programmed (at least in most Americans) an automatic response of disgust at the very thought of eating dog meat.

    If cultural influences do not affect preferences, how do you explain that almost 100% of Americans wouldn't eat dog meat if given the opportunity, and many (wealthy) Chinese do eat dog meat? This isn't related to the fact that most Americans don't like traditional Indian music? Or even to the fact that my parents don't like the same music that I like?

    RIAA, et. al., are trying to do the same, to control what people are exposed to. So people won't understand what they are missing, or even reject it outright if exposed to it after their "RIAA programming" is in place....

  23. Even if you're right by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even if you're right (and you're not; see other posters), we shouldn't give up on America, and we shouldn't give up on China.

    Because, if nothing else, it'll mean others may simply follow, as they've done before. America still does have some muscle in the international world.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  24. A real shame. by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Internet radio had such promise, but the medium is getting destroyed just as it started to get off the ground. The recording industry seems to be quite adept at trying to stop anything that would please their customers but damage their industry. Rather then trying to adapt it just tries to kill anything that it perceives as a threat.

    Which sort of begs the question "Why do we need the recording industry around anyways?"

    About the only thing they do that can be seen as a necessity these days is promotion, and traditional methods of getting bands on your label heard and seen are quickly becoming irrelevant. They pump millions getting their bands airtime on terrestrial radio, a medium that is increasingly pointless (due, in part, to the terrible stuff the record companies are trying to push) They spend huge amounts of money on producing music videos that will never be seen.

    At yet none of these things are a necessity for a band to make it. The Internet is a fantastic replacement for these old fashioned practices.

    As consumers, we can do our best to purchase independant, non RIAA member labels. For artists, it would be nice to see them stray more and more from signing with major labels and going with one that understands this new market and how to work it.

    --
    The Internet is generally stupid