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Net Radio Appeal On Royalties Rejected

Station writes "The Copyright Royalty Board has rejected a request to reconsider its March decision to impose an onerous royalty schedule on Internet radio broadcasters. '"None of the moving parties have [sic] made a sufficient showing of new evidence or clear error or manifest injustice that would warrant rehearing," wrote the CRB in its decision.' The recording industry and its royalty collection organization SoundExchange are jubilant over the ruling. '"Our artists and labels look forward to working with the Internet radio industry — large and small, commercial and noncommercial — so that together we can ensure it succeeds as a place where great music is available to music lovers of all genres," said SoundExchange head Simson in a statement. Noble words, but after today's ruling — which will take effect on May 15 unless the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit agrees to hear an appeal — there probably won't be much of an Internet radio industry left for SoundExchange to work with.'"

35 of 298 comments (clear)

  1. Dammit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And Internet radio was the only radio left that didn't suck.

    1. Re:Dammit! by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because the royalties don't just go to the composer, they also go to the performers. There will be copyright on the recording of the performance, and the holder of that copyright will profit from royalties.

      Given the enormous expense of producing classical music verses popular music, that's not so bad. The vast majority of the expenses associated with popular music are tied up in promotion. Full orchestral pieces need a huge soundstage, require you to pay a large number of highly trained people, need extensive rehearsal beforehand, etc. A record by Ms Spears just requires her to squawk into a mic in a quiet room for a bit and the geek with the autotuner to put in an all-nighter. I have no arguments with paying the relatively modest premiums for a superior product.

      I find this ruling a shame though. The comments by the industry body that they are excited to be enabling the internet radio industry are such bullshit. They are secretly peeing their pants with glee that they managed to kill off a source of virtually free, high quality digital music, because without it, listeners will obviously be more inclined to spend some money.

  2. Look on the bright side by jkgamer · · Score: 5, Funny

    With internet radio gone, VOIP gone, just think of all that bandwidth that will now be available for WoW!

    1. Re:Look on the bright side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it will be consumed by spam first.

  3. The whole point is to kill internet radio. by isaac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole point of this ruling *IS* to kill internet radio which poses the greatest threat to the vertically-integrated, homogeneous pop music environment that is the lifeblood of the RIAA. Without alternative venues for independent artists, the major label combine gets to pick the winners in the market. (Nevermind the detriment to the market itself - this is about controlling the whole pie, not the size of the pie.)

    Sometimes I find myself wishing the RIAA got everything they ever wanted, if only to see how their market collapses. Then I realize it's already happening.

    -Isaac

    --
    I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
    1. Re:The whole point is to kill internet radio. by isaac · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So it's still possible to have music on Internet radio, just not RIAA music.


      No. It's possible to have music on internet radio IF you as a webcaster have negotiated directly with the copyright owner for every piece of music you play. Otherwise, you're paying a license to SoundExchange, period. They administer the statutory license.

      Creative commons is about all that's left, since negotiating with individual artists (and songwriters) for every track is likely to be cost prohibitive. A nice guy might try to undercut SoundExchange by striking deals with indie labels and artists and then brokering these licenses to indie webcasters, but that would require a pretty enormous up-front investment for uncertain return - especially since you could rely on the RIAA and SoundExchange pulling out all the stops to shut you down.

      -Isaac

      --
      I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
    2. Re:The whole point is to kill internet radio. by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What happens when Apple decides to be that broker? They've already positioned themselves to be the next media goliath, and they're going to continue to get bigger (just like Google). And somehow I don't think Mr. Jobs is going to have a problem putting an investment up to do the same as SoundExchange, since at this point it would just be people and code (the rest is already built out a la iTunes).

      You hear me Mr. Jobs? Keep up the good work.

  4. Don McLean by lilomar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, bye, bye, Miss American pie...

    --
    The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
  5. You know what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    having used internet radio as my sole source of mp3s since the early days of Kazaa, I think I might just subscribe to the stations. They're good people running good stations with good music. They deserve my money.

    If you don't want to have your radio invaded by ads - subscribe today.

  6. Pandora by mark0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They clearly have no idea how much Pandora has done to sell me their product. I have actually purchased CDs I would never have known existed were it not for internet radio. They're killing the goose that lays golden eggs.

    1. Re:Pandora by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They clearly have no idea how much Pandora has done to sell me their product. I have actually purchased CDs I would never have known existed were it not for internet radio. They're killing the goose that lays golden eggs.

      They aren't trying to sell YOU their product. They are trying to sell their product to people with no true music taste. They want to sell them *whatever* they put out regardless of its quality. The only way to do this is to 100% control the delivery method so that they can control every aspect of the market from the beginning (ala American Idol).

      People that are looking to self-determine the path that their music tastes follow aren't likely to participate in a culture created entirely for them and that doesn't help the RIAA's mission at all.

    2. Re:Pandora by jonwil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      3 things:
      1.There is this belief among the RIAA that internet radio is a vehicle for piracy (i.e. people saving the songs and getting free copies)
      2.Internet radio often plays non RIAA music too
      and 3.The music that people listen to on internet radio and go and buy (even when its RIAA owned music) is not the music the RIAA wants you to buy.

    3. Re:Pandora by ari+wins · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just received, and followed, this e-mail today. I encourage everyone to do the same, as it will send e-mails out to your local representative(s) in the house and senate. I quote:


      Hi, it's Tim from Pandora,

      I'm writing today to ask for your help. The survival of Pandora and all of Internet radio is in jeopardy because of a recent decision by the Copyright Royalty Board in Washington, DC to almost triple the licensing fees for Internet radio sites like Pandora. The new royalty rates are irrationally high, more than four times what satellite radio pays and broadcast radio doesn't pay these at all. Left unchanged, these new royalties will kill every Internet radio site, including Pandora.

      In response to these new and unfair fees, we have formed the SaveNetRadio Coalition, a group that includes listeners, artists, labels and webcasters. I hope that you will consider joining us.

      Please sign our petition urging your Congressional representative to act to save Internet radio: http://capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/issues/alert/? alertid=9631541

      Please feel free to forward this link/email to your friends - the more petitioners we can get, the better.

      Understand that we are fully supportive of paying royalties to the artists whose music we play, and have done so since our inception. As a former touring musician myself, I'm no stranger to the challenges facing working musicians. The issue we have with the recent ruling is that it puts the cost of streaming far out of the range of ANY webcaster's business potential.

      I hope you'll take just a few minutes to sign our petition - it WILL make a difference. As a young industry, we do not have the lobbying power of the RIAA. You, our listeners, are by far our biggest and most influential allies.

      As always, and now more than ever, thank you for your support.

      --
      Don't worry if you're a kleptomaniac, you can always take something for it.
    4. Re:Pandora by heinousjay · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My musical tastes have nothing to do with this discussion. Some people, in fact a lot of people, do genuinely like the music from the radio, MTV, and heaven forbid, American Idol. It's not your job to decide if their taste is worthwhile, and deriding it doesn't make you cool.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    5. Re:Pandora by Mortimer82 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually it is: http://blog.pandora.com/pandora/

      I got the mail too, but all I had to find it on the website was click the "Blog" link at the bottom on the page.

    6. Re:Pandora by NearlyHeadless · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Experimental study of inequality and unpredictability in an artificial cultural market"
      Matthew J. Salganik, Peter S. Dodds, and Duncan J. Watts.
      Science, 311:854-856, 2006.

      Abstract: Hit songs, books, and movies are many times more successful
      than average, suggesting that "the best" alternatives are qualitatively
      different from "the rest"; yet experts routinely fail to predict which
      products will succeed. We investigated this paradox experimentally, by
      creating an artificial "music market" in which 14,341 participants
      downloaded previously unknown songs either with or without knowledge of
      previous participants' choices. Increasing the strength of social
      influence increased both inequality and unpredictability of success.
      Success was also only partly determined by quality: The best songs
      rarely did poorly, and the worst rarely did well, but any other result
      was possible.

  7. boundaries by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This will only work against people and companies inside the United States; I predict that internet radio will still thrive, and the rest of the world will drive America's music tastes.

    1. Re:boundaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is exactly what irritates me about these stories. Why the panic?

      Internet radio will just move off-shore, and continue unaffected. I see it said again and again on Slashdot, but it doesn't seem to sink in. The internet does exist outside the US. And there's links between the different countries!

    2. Re:boundaries by DGolden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And those links cross the borders of countries at a relatively limited number of internet exchanges / peering points. Don't think that the Corporate Reich of America could never implement a "Great Firewall of the USA". And, unlike China, the CRA might even have the resources and technical know-how to make it work properly.

      --
      Choice of masters is not freedom.
    3. Re:boundaries by Windrip · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Community radio cannot move offshore.

  8. The RIAA looks forward to... by haakondahl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Working with our wholly-owned subsidiaries, who are of course exempt from paying royalties. What wholly-owned subsidiaries, you ask? Why, the very ones that the sustenance of this ruling has made possible.

    --
    Don't trust anyone under thirty.
  9. Fuck... by ktakki · · Score: 4, Informative

    As a former musician, songwriter, and label owner, I relied on getting paid through performance, mechanical, synchronization, and transcription royalties. It was a regular, dependable revenue stream.

    But I've gotten so dependent on internet audio streams like Soma-FM's Indie Pop Rocks. Sometimes, it was the only thing keeping me going when I was working my dead end IT job. I'd have the shortcut to the 128kb stream on my desktop and it was the first thing I'd hit, even before checking my e-mail.

    When I heard a song I really liked, I'd write down the name on a notepad, check the artist's site to see if an mp3 was available and if not I'd get it from iTMS. Just like radio, internet streams drive sales.

    I had thought that ASCAP and BMI (the performing rights organizations that collect and disburse performance royalties) based royalty rates based on a radio or television station's potential audience, but it seems more complex than that, seeing as the Library of Congress is setting basic rates.

    Tomorrow, I intend to research this issue and write my congressman (Rep. Delahunt) and senators (Sen. Kerry and Sen. Kennedy) and ask them to look into this issue. I urge everyone who is a constituent of a senator on the telecommunications subcommittee to do the same:

    Conrad Burns, MT, Chairman
    Ted Stevens, AK (don't mention those "tubes", okay?)
    Trent Lott, MS
    Kay Bailey Hutchison, TX
    Olympia J. Snowe, ME
    Sam Brownback, KS
    Gordon Smith, OR
    Peter G. Fitzgerald, IL
    John Ensign, NV
    George Allen, VA
    John Sununu, NH
    Ernest Hollings, SC, Ranking
    Daniel K. Inouye, HI
    John D. Rockefeller, WV
    John F. Kerry, MA
    John Breaux, LA
    Byron Dorgan, ND
    Ron Wyden, OR
    Barbara Boxer, CA
    Bill Nelson, FL
    Maria Cantwell, WA

    E-mail and faxes will probably be better received than snail mail, given the fact that mail to government offices gets delayed while it gets irradiated to ameliorate biological threats.

    k.

    --
    "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
  10. Decision only sets compulsory rates by The+Empiricist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Copyright owners and webcasters can still negotiate rates (See 17 U.S.C. Sec. 114(f)(3)). The decision that the Copyright Review Board refused to rehear merely establishes the terms and conditions that enable webcasters to license copyrighted works without seeking permission from the copyright owners. If Congress had not enabled the establishment of these compulsory license rates, then webcasters would not be able to broadcast any works without seeking permission from copyright owners because Congress had introduced a digital performance right in the Digital Performance Right in Sound Recordings Act of 1995.

    Copyright owners presumably are interested in maximizing their revenues, while webcasters probably would like to minimize their costs. Thus, both groups still have a incentives to negotiate. The compulsory licensing rates will not kill internet radio: they simply provide terms and conditions of last resort for copyright owners and webcasters who cannot otherwise reach an agreement.

  11. Re:The real question by Jahz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, why should there be no royalties for Internet radio when both play the same music? Good job knowing what you're talking about. Internet radio stations already had to pay royalties. This new ruling means they will pay far more expensive royalties. So expensive that it would cost more than terrestrial radio without nearly the same audience or revenue.
    --
    There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not.
  12. From TFA: by zaydana · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One thing that really surprised me after reading these comments first and then the article, is that stations can't just move to independent music. From TFA:

    5. Well... independent music is cool. Why not just play independent music?

    This is very important to understand, as lots of people see this as a solution. The statutory webcast license covers ANY copyright music, from the biggest labels, down to the smallest, and even independently-released music. Again, the license covers ANY copyright music. The copyright owner need NOT be part of SoundExchange or the RIAA. The ONLY exceptions to this are (A) direct deals with each and every sound recording copyright owner, (B) copyright owners that are willing to make a blanket "waive" of fees, or (C) non-copyright, public domain music.

    I guess that means that this is about more than just the RIAA controlling the industry - its about putting them out of business. Of course, me being an Australian, I understand that they can't really do that because there are many other countries where it costs a bit more to buy yourself a politician.

    And just for the record, one of my favorite stations is located in Switzerland anyway.

  13. That's fair by grasshoppa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've come to the conclusion that there is little I can do to stop the overwhelming tide of corporate interests or otherwise greedy minded individuals who control the world. That is, until even the sheeple of the world get annoyed. I figure that'll be about the time they interfere with american idol in some way or another. Or Grey's Anatomy. Until then, those of us with good intent are going to be continued to get kicked to the curb any time a large corporation with deep pockets want something.

    They say real life is nothing like school. They are wrong on one point: The bully still wins. Standing up to the bully gets you little more than a bloody nose and some sympathy.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
  14. Re:Royalty by interiot · · Score: 3, Informative

    That specific royalty is only because "HD Radio" isn't a generic standard that anyone can use, but is instead a proprietary format that iBiquity licenses out to people. There are other digital radio formats that don't have to pay this fee.

  15. Re:Royalty by ztirffritz · · Score: 4, Informative

    You're mistaken. Internet radio is transmitting highly compressed copies that usually sound only marginally better than a cassette tape. It is digital in format, but that does not mean that it is of superior quality. There is a reason why the digital format on a CD is about 40 MB per song and an MP3 of the same exact song is about 4 MB. The quality is lower. If they were streaming some lossless format then maybe it would be a concern. The bandwidth costs alone would drive all but the largest webcasters out of business. A cassette tape recorded off of a strong FM station probably sounds better than most internet streams. This is not about digging money out of a new business. This is about shutting down a new business that threatens the vertical integration of the old business. If people have un-restricted access to new artists and music it becomes more difficult for the labels to force-feed their crap down our throats. This will drive everyone out of webcasting...except for ClearChannel and maybe AOL. Their precious business model secure until someone figures out how to bit-torrent radio streams. (Actually Octoshape is already doing that more or less)

    --
    Why doesn't anything interesting happen when I have mod points?
  16. Enter Pirate Radio 2.0 by snsr · · Score: 3, Informative

    Another generation, born from fire.

  17. Re:The real question by Percy_Blakeney · · Score: 4, Informative

    If the objective is to have broadcasting over the Internet, then there is no effective difference and the royalties should be identical.

    Great point! You should really mention it to the Copyright Royalty Board, as they have now rejected that line of reasoning twice when it came from the Internet radio stations.

    In case you haven't been keeping up with the story, here's the quick summary: Internet radio has to pay two sets of royalties, while traditional radio only pays one. Thanks to the recent ruling by the CRB, that extra royalty that Internet radio pays will skyrocket over the next few years, dealing Internet radio a mortal blow.

    And yes, you're right, it makes no sense.

  18. Re:Royalty by Bobzibub · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://www.peercast.org/features.php
    Anonymous broadcasting - clients do not tell each other if they are the source or just listening

  19. UNRIAA? by msimm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hear a lot of comments along the lines of A) use creative commons B) go off shore c) direct negotiations with artists.

    I run a radio program. Both (depending on how many artists you'd like to feature or how often you'd like to update that) are unrealistic.

    Assuming independent artist *do* want to be heard (and I'd contend that they do) I think all that's missing to make this a powerful vehicle is any real organization behind it.

    Want to bad mouth the RIAA? Create something fucking better. I'd bet with enough exposure a lot of small/mid-sized artists and record labels would love to provide cohesive, clear (protective) rights for some kind of limited/promotional broadcasting.

    When I started my radio program I immediately began contacting artists, managers and labels directly. They didn't want to provide carte blanche permission. This is an industry and artists/(managers)/labels get taken advantage of. But they were more then eager to provide limited broadcast rights with proper guidelines that could easily be generalized pretty much across the board.

    If we like being lead by the balls by an organization we don't feel is treating us with respect, perfect that's *exactly* what we've got. But if you're fucking tired of this? Show them or stop whining.



    --
    Quack, quack.
  20. An Alternative Scheme by Reziac · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So what's needed is a *different* agency, to collectively negotiate rights for non-SoundExchange artists.

    It occurs to me that an outfit like CDBaby, already set up to pay artists for CDs sold, might serve quite well as a royalties broker for independent artists and songwriters (remember there are two parts to that side of the equation).

    Once the base rate has been set (and it could be instantly defined as "just like it was before the new rules") it would be a matter of getting the word out, letting artists trickle in on their own, and creating a central database of music covered by the new "indie royalties agreement". The new royalties agency would take a cut (doubtless much smaller than what the current regime takes -- is it 80%?? anyone know for sure?), and distribute the artists' portions in the same way as they currently distribute artists' portions of CDs sold.

    In fact, this could extend to any outfit that's set up for it -- the only hard requirement is that everyone must use the same central database, so all the internet radio stations can know positively, in one step and without having to chase anyone around, what music is covered by the indie-royalties-agreement and therefore free of the usorious new cartel rates.

    I did find it interesting that even Clear Channel is on our side -- they're probably the ONLY radio voice loud enough to be heard in Congress. Goes to show that even as entrenched in realspace radio as they are, even Clear Channel recognises that the internet is the future of radio broadcasting -- particularly as station equipment ages out and they find it vastly cheaper to replace transmitters and towers with MP3s and bandwidth.

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    1. Re:An Alternative Scheme by cfulmer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is a great idea.

      It seems to me, however, that the entire premise behind flat-rate royalties is slowly disintegrating. The original idea was that it's too difficult for each station to contract with each rights-holder. So, a flat rate was set which, while not perfect, at least allowed those transactions to go through. The songs that are played are sampled, and then the royalties are divided among the rights holders according to the sample.

      But, on the Internet, why can't you just have a big database tracking every song? The head-end software looks at how many listeners there are, looks up the song in the database and reports to the station "If you want to play this song right now, it will cost you $$$$"? Then, when it gets played, it tracks exactly who is supposed to get what royalties.

      This model has a number of benefits: first, it's more accurate: each rights holder gets paid when their music is played. Even the guy whose song is only played to twelve people will get compensated, whereas he never would have made that 'sample' before. And, second, it allows each individual artist to set the rates for their own music -- if you want to give your music out for free, do it. And, third, it would allow low-cost Internet radio to thrive.

  21. Rates by muffen · · Score: 5, Informative

    For commercial and for larger non-commercial webcasters the judges set a pay-per-play rate of:

    $.0008 per play for 2006
    $.0011 per play for 2007
    $.0014 per play for 2008
    $.0018 per play for 2009
    $.0019 per play for 2010

    Per Play means the following:
    Any time ONE listener hears ONE song (or any portion of a song), that's a "performance." If ONE listener hears ten songs, that's TEN performances. If 1000 listeners hear ten songs, that's 10,000 performances.

    So what will the internet radio stations have to pay?
    Here's a calculation:

    $0.0008 X 10,000 listeners X 16 songs/hr. = $128. It'll cost our imaginary webcaster $128 to play one hour of music for 10,000 people.
    At the end of the day, that's $3,072 ($128 X 24 hrs./day) -- for just a single day! After a week goes by, it's $21,504 ($3,072 X 7 days/wk.).
    And for all of 2006, this webcaster with a steady average audience of 10,000 listeners would owe $1,121,280!! (the $3,072 X 365 days/yr.)

    That takes care of 2006. For 2007, the rate increases 37.5%! So, with no audience growth, the cost of streaming music for the year would increase to $1,541,760.
    And the royalty rate goes up another 28% in 2008, and another 28% in 2009, topping out at a $.0019 per performance rate in 2010 (resulting in a royalty obligation of $2,663,040 for that same audience averaging 10,000 listeners) for that year.

    Information taken from www.savethestreams.org.