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Linux Based Nokia N800 Internet Tablet Reviewed
HHL3T writes "CoolTechZone.com has published a review of the Linux-based Nokia N800 Internet Tablet that was announced at CES 2007 back in January. The review concludes, "As it currently stands, the N800 is an absolutely amazing product for web browsing. However, it's targeted at a very exclusive market: pure technology admirers who must have the latest and greatest, regardless of its real world functionality. We wouldn't recommend you place all of your critical information on the N800, due to its limited online connectivity options and lack of a portable form factor, especially if you are a professional. But if you must have the N800, we would recommend only using it as a digital newspaper to stay abreast on the latest news, and get work done online. It's just too much of an independent platform to be able to replace anything else, such as a notebook, a smartphone or a cell phone."
That's why I use a Windows-compatible pen computer (Fujtitsy Stylistic), so that I can have (bear with me, it's an odd-ball and eclectic list) Adobe Acrobat, FontLab, FontForge, FreeHand, LyX, PhotoFiltre (this one is on trial --- may need to go back to PhotoShop or try the GIMP again, wish I'd kept my copy of Fauve xRes), WinTeXshell (w/ both MikTeX and w32tex) &c.
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
That means it HAS to be good, right?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I bought my N800 to use mainly as a book reader and I must say its been awesome. Crisp, big, and high resolution screen, perfect for reading. I'm using one of many free software addons called fbreader for reading ebooks.
Instantly working bluetooth data connections with most carriers (I was amazed how easy it was to setup - select your carrier, turn on bluetooth on your mobile and off you go, instead of windows where you have to know setting XX ZZ and YY before you have a chance of getting connected through your mobile phone).
Wifi with as good a range as my Thinkpad T60p.
The ability to surf the web easily on a display that's *readable* everywhere you want to.
Way better battery performance than my PDA which features a screen half the size...
Did I mention it runs linux? You can run VNC, ssh etc. on it and install these apps with just a few clicks... VNC actually works quite decent (over WIFI, it blows using bluetooth, mainly due to bandwidth limitation).
All in all, I definitely don't regret buying one.
-pug
Kinda cool but for the most part useless. These companies shout put tablet computers on the side line for a decade or so. Perhaps by then they can have enough power/size/smarts to be useful. Rightnow it is an expensive toy to play with for a few weeks then just get put aside.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
.. will open many a door for enthusiasts and companys alike. I've had a chance to see one of these things in action. Definitely a geek toy, but how it's marketed and what Toshiba will do with the machine in the end will be what makes or breaks this little gizmo.
"Snatching defeat from the mouth of victory on a daily basis."
As a platform the thing is very nifty, true, but it has some interesting uses as a platform if people developed with a different mindset. The 770 and this device changed my thoughts about what mobile devices should be. I'd like a small useful "phone" that acts as a local router, with devices that perform specific functionality around it. Think of the tablet as a screen for your mobile.
As an ADD'er, I'm interested in how I can create tools for keeping me on track. The 800 can sit at the desk, act as a radio, run widgets, and act as something like Xerox's multiple display system. There aren't a whole lot of thought tools in this area (mobile), and a lot of opportunity. I'm happy that Nokia has the gumption to put something like this on the market. Your mileage may vary...
apparently they are using one as their web server.
What I really want is this thing, with a real cell phone feature as well. That way I'd rig it to receive calls via skype and fail over to the cell when wifi wasn't available. Oh, and I'd like the phone to have a prepaid option as well. There really isn't a combination I know of that has prepaid, wifi, and skpye capabilites in a single phone.
Please let me know if there is one for the US of A.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
The problem is that Nokia considers GNU/Linux tablets to be unsupported abandonware only 1.5 years after introduction. The tablets are loaded with proprietary and binary-only drivers and software, which means once official support goes away, you're left with a very expensive paperweight. Linux Weekly News reported on this just this week.
I've got one of these, and love it. Yes, it isn't a phone, and isn't trying to be a phone, and isn't for people who wanted a phone.
It's definitely a lot more than just a web tablet though. GPE PDA software is being ported, it's got gpg and ssh and the gnumeric spreadsheet and GPS software and interfaces to online digital maps and mp3 player SW. It's got a ton of other stuff like that, coupled to a device with a best-in-class screen, built in 802.11, and around ~5 DAYS of battery life under my normal use.
It's really a nice little multifunction device and slips in my shirt pocket. The closest Sony x86 based ultraportables are about 3X the weight and volume of this thing. This won't replace a real laptop with a keyboard and so forth, but it's still a great thing to augment your laptop and you can carry it with you everywhere.
Bad sides: the case that comes with it sucks. The included mp3 player only works with tagged files, not with simple directory-sorted files. Couple of others, some of which can be fixed with SW.
That's my impression of it. I've got one with 8 Gb (2x4), but an upcoming kernel patch will allow use of high capacity SD cards for more storage.
There is not much on the market I'd trade mine for, and it's not all locked down crap that wants you to pay for each little feature you want to use like many competitors' offerings.
I veiw my Nokia as a dedicated system for browsing my bank and stock accounts. It is cheap enough to set aside for that reason and I am confident that my interactions with these important websites are through a browser/system that has not been hacked.
Sounds like a great device for scanning networks. I am assuming that you can run kismet on it anyone have any experience doing that with the Nokia?
The article is Slashdotted. Does it do Xstroke?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Nokia will not reimburse you for the shipping cost, and has a very broken tracking mechanism. As several users at the Internet Table Talk forum have documented, this means that your $400 device goes back to Nokia, and you don't know when/if you'll get it back.
"However, it's targeted at a very exclusive market: pure technology admirers who must have the latest and greatest, regardless of its real world functionality."
Um, is not that the point of creating a product, to define the market you want to capture. That would be like saying the iPhone is meant for the exclusive market: parents with too much spare cash and greedy kids who demand a $500 cell phone.
Okay, it is targeted at the technology admirers. Wait, isn't that almost all of the buyers out there who keeping upgrading their phones each time a new, slimmer model is announced? Or upgrades to the next great large screen TV? The sales folk at my company keep demanding the newest phone, the newest PDA, etc. I guess that makes them technology admirers, too.
*shrug*
Bearded Dragon
From Linux Coder guru.
http://macslow.thepimp.net/?p=106
...it's another worthless device to purchase and carry around, which has no real useful function other than glorified web browser.
Consumerism. Yes. Credit card debt is fun.
"It's just too much of an independent platform to be able to replace anything else, such as a notebook, a smartphone or a cell phone."
(And make the long haired, goatee sporting, socialist, Ben & Jerry addicts orgasm?)
Put Linux on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N800
I gotta chime in here... I also purchased an N800 and am overall very satisfied with it. The thing is amazingly capable, especially when paired with a bluetooth keyboard. I use the Think Outside XTBTUE keyboard. The keyboard folds up to a size not much larger than the N800. I can walk around with an 802.11b/g capable, fully functional Debian based machine in my pocket, with ssh, vnc, and a keyboard that I can type on at full speed.
To be honest though, I think what really was the catalyst for my purchase was the desire to show my support for companies willing to empower and work with the opensource community, rather than against it (which is also why I purchased a SqueezeBox, another company willing to work with their opensource customers.) Check out maemo.org for a glimpse of the N800 development community.
Nokia even had a program where they allowed 500 active opensource contributors to purchase an N800 for only $99.
PS. Hear that companies? I vote with my wallet and will gladly give my money to companies that embrace opensource software.
I was eying the 770 for awhile as a possible pentest platform. I ended up grabbing the n800 the week it came out. It's a pretty nifty product. Only problem with me is the lack of usbhost and the flakey wifi drivers (It puts in ghost data which skrews up some programs, like aircrack) Kismet does have a driver and works fine with it, but I believe it still freezes up when the screen blanks. The programs on it that came from the 770 still need some work to be used properly. You also have some weird endless rebooting problems if a program you install flakes out on startup. Overall it has great potential, but currently mines been regulated to running fbreader as an ebook reader. It's been the best ebook reader I've used so far, so I'm still happy with it. Oh, and for a media device.. it support rhapsody, has an fm radio (of course with horrid reception), plays web radio, and orb support has just come out for it.
The problem is that Nokia considers GNU/Linux tablets to be unsupported abandonware only 1.5 years after introduction. The tablets are loaded with proprietary and binary-only drivers and software, which means once official support goes away, you're left with a very expensive paperweight.
This is true for all the devices in it's class and is not special to GNU/Linux tablets. It's true that an all free device like the One Laptop per Child is better, but that single device is the only one I'm aware of. Everything else has to be reverse engineered and all other makers consider their PDA's, tablets, laptops and deskops to be abandonware by the LWN definition, "the End-User Software Agreement is still valid and Nokia 770 customers can make use of all their rights, same as before the N800 and the IT OS [2007] were launched."
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I have a PepperPad3 (pepper.com) that I've been completely satisfied with. I've seen the Nokia a couple of times
now and I still think that the form factor of the PP3 is preferable.
"ssh and the gnumeric spreadsheet and GPS software and interfaces to online digital maps and mp3 player SW"
Hmmm. My cell phone has had those functions.....for the last 3 years. Welcome to the 21st century. We've missed you.
When will gadget developers realise that it's completely stupid to put lots of tiny little holes around buttons?
Speakers on gadgets are all very well but like so many laptops (the widescreen Apple and some Fijitsu notebooks esp) they get full of dust and gunk if the holes are facing up or around the keypad. Get it together, sheesh. Your device doesn't exist on the drawing board, the idea is that it's actually used by (grubby) humans.
I bought an N800 to be my primary "connection" on an upcoming trip to Italy since I don't own a GSM phone... I am hoping reasonably available wi-fi and Gizmo Project will let me stay in touch with email/voice communications while trekking through Italy (ok, "Trekking" sounds far more adventurous than what I have planned...) So far I am really pleased with the N800. It is a great email/web browsing device while sitting in bed (and less obtrusive than the laptop). I do wish there were more applications, as I am a long spoiled Palm OS fan and have my Sprint Treo overloaded with every imaginable app... Hopefully my European plans for the N800 will succeed! Ciao!
...cell phone. That'd be cool. It'd be like a PDA I can make phone calls from. I wonder why no one has thought of that before.
I think I'm gonna hold off on buying until they invent this PDA + cell phone combo.
As anyone who has been working as a developer for the mobile world knows, many of the devices tends to be bugged. Sometimes it's serious, sometimes not. You can buy a $500+ cellphone supposed to be the top of the top and have its browser crash after viewing 4 or 5 webpages. You've also very often bugged Java Micro Edition VM (not respecting Sun's specs, etc).
I see the problem as coming from the fact that it's always "latest of the latest tech" and software that should be considered "beta" that is being released. Recent technology, buggy drivers, etc. And the problem is by the time the bugs are ironed out, there's a "new latest of the latest" and so you hardly ever see "version 1.1" of the phone, for you're starting again with a more recent phone, subject to new bugs etc.
What about cell phones / tablet PCs running Linux? Is there any hope that these aren't rushed so hard to the market or that, at least, by using Linux you gain some stability?
I'm sure lots of people want to reply with anecdotical "my XYZ cellphone works perfectly and its browser never crashes" but having worked on porting applications to hundreds of cellphones I can tell you that many cellphone developers know what I'm talking about when I say that it's "cutting edge buggy tech".
I bought an n800 the day after they came out, and I have been extremely happy with it. The review recommends using it "only as a digital newspaper"?! I'm sorry, but the reviewer wasn't being very creative.
I find the n800 most useful as a portable penetration-testing platform. The reviewer missed the point that the n800 really is a linux box, so it will run whatever you throw at it - kismet, nmap, metasploit, dsniff, aircrack - you name it. It's small enough to hide just about anywhere, and it looks so much like a phone that you can use it in public without drawing much attention to yourself.
I highly recommend pairing the n800 with the Stowaway bluetooth keyboard from ThinkOutside. This, when combined with the n800's XTerm program - gives you a complete, networked, graphical linux workstation that fits within the confines of your cargo pants (settle down!). The keyboard expands to full-size, so you can type quite naturally, and it folds down in seconds in the event you need to make a quick-getaway.
Did I mention that the n800 can also run mame and mplayer and that you can fit two 4GBs of flash cards into it? Oh, and that it takes regular cell-phone batteries, so you can carry around as much portable power as you need, for a long job or a long flight?
Oh, and also that the bluetooth chip has an FM radio reciever built-in?
Ever since the Toshiba Libretto, I've been waiting for a pocket-sized, touch-screen, wi-fi-enabled xterm/attack platform. The n800 is the best I've seen yet. Still, I'd recommend only using it for all the things you do with other kickass, portable linux devices. The n800 is not yet ready to replace your Aibo.
The reason I bought the N800 was the fact that the price ($399) made it the least expensive mobile web platform that uses an actual desktop version of a web browser (opera 8.2). No other mobile device or PDA has a web browser that really works as well, even Opera Mini. I use the N800 to do mobile web administration of my forum and other websites, and it has worked perfectly every time. A UMPC costs about 3 times as much as this. It would be nice if it had a phone built in, or even simply an EVDO aircard connection, but with my cellphone and bluetooth it works well enough. I don't have a bluetooth keyboard for it yet, which would make life even easier. For what it does, it's perfect for this type of usage.
Webmaster of the webcomic 'Stupid and Insane Defenders Against Chaos' at http://www.onezumi.com
After a month of use: The 770 has better form factor and looks better, but the N800 has: - much better power savings thanks to the new OS - practically never crashes. I have had zero crashes after installing the updated OS. Installing was a breeze, it even located my backup and restored settings from old OS. - has MUCH improved packet management - works flawlessly with a Nokia bluetooth keyboard - has enough CPU power to watch those 350M TV series episodes (it's not 30fps but it's smooth enough using mplayer) - Opera never crashes, loads very fast, and renders very fast - It's "always online" thanks to very sane hassle-free WLAN configuration system and good power saving modes Its' a great platform for Lucasarts games, remote configuration (X Terminal, SSH). And with the LCARS Trek-theme the OS is very very futuristic. Some software ports like X-Chat (for IRC) and X-Terminal are excellent. 770 was a nice prototype (I used it for a year). N800 is a solid product. With 2 x 4G SD cards it can easily carry a weekend's worth of videos of music. Looking forward to the Navicore navigation set (released last week).
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
The PDF viewer is good. I have read 400-page PDF's full of images on this thing, as well as warezed scanned Tintin/Asterix/Whatnot cartoons. For proper e-book formats fbreader rules, you can rotate the text 90 degrees and keep the tablet in one hand and scroll pages using zoom buttons.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
Actually, coupled with a bluetooth keyboard, it can replace your laptop while you're traveling. Well, depending on what type of work you need to do. Abiword is quite capable on the N800, as well as Gnumeric. I've only traveled with it for 4 days so far, but in a week it will be my only device I have with me for 2 weeks. It was fine for the 4 days. It'll be interesting to see if I still feel the same way after solely using ot for 2 weeks.
A local CompUSA was going out of business so they gave me 40% off on the N800. I just had to buy it. As a result, I've been installing open-source applications for it, and they are amazing. One of the selling points of the device was the bluetooth integration with a GPS unit. The device runs an application called "Maemo" for the desktop, and its built on Debian. I downloaded "MaemoMapper" which has GPS, Routes, and Maps, and once you get the "Flite" library installed, it reads you directions. All for far less than a standalone GPS. Throw in all the other features, and it was too good to pass up. The developer base is growing extensively, and more and more projects are opening up. I already have NMap on the device which is great since you don't need to carry around a laptop to do some testing.
Relocating to San Francisco / Palo Alto... Hire me?
A**WIPE it is NOT a phone! Look in the mirror and direct your last "sentence" to yourself.
I would love to buy one, but there are no fire or jump buttons on the right side. How can I justify the purchase?
From TFA:"the streaming performance was sub par at best. The movies were pixilated, and the audio was unsync'ed with the clips. YouTube videos are known for their notorious video quality, and the N800 doesn't have the power to remedy those issues like a PC would to tolerable levels."
What exactly does that mean? Does the author think your PC has some magic CSI-like software that "enhances" You Tube videos? Or does the Nokia use some crappy codec that can't handle video at 320 x 240? Or did he just have a crappy network connection that couldn't handle the stream?
This is the one that really gets me: "The lack of bass and clearly defined bits weren't presentable through the integrated speakers. Interestingly enough, the audio quality improved vastly through third-party earphones."
In other words, music sounds better through a decent set of headphones than over the tiny speakers crammed into an ultraportable device. The fact that this finds this interesting--as opposed to blatantly obvious-- makes his credentials suspect. And I guess I don't have a very good ear, but I can hardly ever hear the "clearly defined bits" in my digital music.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Karma whoring: http://www.nokiausa.com/N800/1,9008,,00.html
The Spoon
Updated 6/28/2011
What he meant to say is:
"Having carefully evaluated this device and its capabilities, I have ascertained that it does not fit my needs for mobile computation. I find that connectivity to a mobile carrier is vital, and clearly any reasonable person would agree with me and therefore I can immediately declare that the device in question is of no value to anyone and has no merit whatsoever."
Bravo, sir. I was about to buy one, but having spent the time considering your insightful comments and arguments I realised that this device is, in fact, not a glorified mobile phone.
Little unknown detail: this not a phone even if it's a Nokia product. You can always use a Bluetooth mobile to keep the 3G/GPRS/GSM connection going. You can also keep waiting for a mobile that does everything you can do with the N800. It's your choice.
I see no compelling reason to get this over a Dell Axim X51v (or if you're on the cheap, an X50v off ebay).
-High res screen? Check. Resolution is only slightly less -- 800x480 (iirc) vs 640x480, which still kicks the crap out of any phone on the market.
-Wireless? Check.
-Bluetooth? Check.
-*Far* faster processer, making things like watching xvid-encoded movies off of either a CF or SD card a breeze using such freeware as TCPMP. Use DVD Decryptor and Auto GordianKnot and entire DVDs can be compressed to 800-900 megs with amazing quality, making it easy to keep yourself entertained on flights or train commutes.
-No comparison for software -- the Axims run Windows Mobile, which has hundreds of free and commercial games and various apps available.
-True PDA functionality
-GPS add-ons if you're into that
-Syncs with Outlook
-CHEAP. I picked up an x50v with loads and loads of extras (aluminum case, long life battery, travel charger, car charger, car mount, 2 GB CF card, etc) off of ebay for $250. Heck, there's even an add-on to get ota TV stations.
Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am master of my fate and captain of my soul.
Indeed. The grandparent demonstrates a certain amount of immaturity by assuming that a cool device which doesn't have what he considers to be a crucial feature is therefore of no value.
Heaven forbid that someone should jump in straight away to flame him with an equally insightful comment about how the device is not a phone, while failing to notice that one might want to use the internet where there is 3G coverage but no wifi. And imagine the hilarity if they topped this off by demonstrating their own immaturity with puerile insults!
I have a 770, and I can't wait for some sort of bluetooth storage like Seagate's D.A.V.E. or that Bluonyx thing by Agere. Then I can store more movies and music on it than I can with the small 2gb flash card that my 770 has.
Its an excellent device to take on planes. You don't have to worry about getting out the laptop, putting it on the tray, the guy in the seat in front of you in full recline and taking that much more of your personal space, longer battery life, etc.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
I guess the author of the review really does not want to know what his surname means in Swedish.... :=)
BTW the Think Outside keyboard is awsome, and mega handy.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
What audio formats does it support? I am hoping for Ogg support since all my music is in ogg.
I just realised my stereo set doesn't have 3G either. I'm going to throw the useless piece of junk away first thing in the morning.
I bought a N800 a week ago. At first I didn't like it but as I got used to quickly changing the zoom and toggling "optimize" mode for the web sites I use it for, I started to like it a lot - glad I bought it. This transition took several hours of use.
I think the PDF reader could stand improving: it does not remember where 'where you were' last in a document and navigation in full screen mode could be improved.
It works well to read GMail but if I need to send a long reply I wait until I have my laptop booted. It does not work so well for a few web sites, so I just don't keep those bookmarked on the N800. If you are thinking of buying one I suggest trying to borrow one for at least two hours of use before making up your mind. It runs Linux and you can grab a free SDK for it from the web.
I'm sorry that I used these strong expressions and thereby scaring some people into thinking I was just doing that to piss them off. But seriously, it all seemed so great, but then "What? You mean you would actually like this thing to let you utilize your little country's 3G-net? And you would expect a company like Nokia to think of that? You would really like to use this device when you don't have direct access to an open wlan without also spending lots of additional money on a 3G phone? Madness...". I just expressed myself like that to illustrate the trauma from which I was suffering after having realized they did the same mistake AGAIN.
Frankly, if you've got the sort of spare cash for an n800, you can probably afford a 3g phone and the high data rates to connect it to the 'net - indeed, the phone probably comes free with the contract. I imagine there's other considerations like power consumption, price, ergonomics and tax. More likely than not, most customers will already have a bluetooth phone that can do data. It's all a tradeoff.
They're currently testing the water. If it becomes anywhere near big outside of the geek community, I'm sure they'll release an "upgrade" model that can do these things. Meanwhile, I read somewhere that either the n770 or the n800 (not sure which) can be hacked to behave as a USB host - so if anyone's made a 3G usb dongle then you're probably good to go.