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Vonage Wins Permanent Stay in Verizon Case
kamikaze-Tech writes "The US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Washington DC today issued Vonage a permanent stay of a previous court's injunction that would have barred it from signing up new customers. Vonage sought the stay following an April 6th decision by the US District Court in Alexandria, VA enjoining the company from using certain VoIP technology to add new customers."
Here's to hoping everything goes well throughout the rest of the appeals process.
..... Whoo hoo, hoo hoo hoo!
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
i work for a CLEC in NH. Verizon continually changes the rules
on us to make our lives difficult. I hope vonage wins the day.
This lets them sign up new customers, but they still could be screwed as far as the patent thing.
Wait for the patents to expire?
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- Douglas Adams
The stay is granted until the appeals process is concluded. IOW, if Vonage loses in the appeals process, of course, the District Court's injuction goes back into effect.
It ain't over 'til it's over.
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Somehow i doubt this case will result in a large portion of the Patent laws being repealed. Vonnage will look at its cost/risk analysis and decide that paying royalties to Verizon is much better then facing the risk of losing their business. A settlement will be reached behind closed door. All this posturing is merely a game of trying to reach the minimum amount of royalties they have to incur. Two large corporations fighting each other will not result in more freedom for the rest of us. The patent business is to profitable to jeopardize by bringing an argument to court.
this to be a no-brainer, considering what SCOTUS has already said about injunctions. This was actually a pretty important case, in recent history that the injuction issuing judge should really have read. I am pretty sure Verizon couldn't show the injunction met the 4th requirement. Actually, I think they would have a hard time showing items #1 or #3, as well.
Somehow I can't image that Verizon really wanted to cause Vonage to immediately go out of business which is what would have happened had they not gotten this stay. They would have been out of business by the time the case made it to trial and Verizon wouldn't have received much if anything.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
This is a huge story among us techno types, but does the general public have any clue?
Just last night, I got the usual pack of coupons in the mail... including one inviting me to choose Vonage for my local phone service. I'd wager nobody on my block has ever heard of the Vonage vs. Verizon patent battle. What happens to these folks -- especially the non-technical ones who don't even understand the 911 and VoIP thing -- if Vonage eventually loses its case entirely?
Or is Vonage's strategy now built around pumping up the customer base in advance of the inevitable bankruptcy and fire sale of their only remaining asset: their customer list?
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Now they just need a new way to get calls from the net to a phone line. I wonder if anyone has patented taping a phone to a speaker.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
Somehow I can't image that Verizon really wanted to cause Vonage to immediately go out of business which is what would have happened had they not gotten this stay. They would have been out of business by the time the case made it to trial and Verizon wouldn't have received much if anything.
Except to shutdown the most public use of VoIP outside of any physical medium carrier. Or, in verizon's case, outside of their own business.
That'd be a huge bonus to them.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Unfortunately for Vonage, under the current patent system, Verizon almost certainly has them under their thumb. Within the current rules, I'm betting that Vonage can't win, and somehow will become Verizon's bitch whore just to stay in business. Patent reform is the solution, but it's not going to happen in time for Vonage.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
I'm not too familiar with what exactly is going on here and the reach of the issues but how about Vonage Canada? Did Verizon register the patent up here as well? Does it even matter (considering traffic still goes through American based technology/infrastructure)?..
[alk]
Now thing whole patent mess will just drag out and never be resolved. Shutting them down would wake the public up and make them mad. Oh, wait...That's why the stay. We can't make the public aware that they are being raped. They might do something, like call for abolition or some such nonsense. Or worse, they might vote out a valuable incumbent. And we definitely can't have people actually being aware of and using their power they have over the government.
What?
Vonage! We can't guarantee we'll be here tomorrow, but we promise great service today!
[Sign up for a 3 or 5 year plan, pay in advance, and earn a special reserved seating package for all future Vonage court proceedings!]
So how do you get a actual phone number tied to your VoIP and how can you dial out to an arbitrary phone number? If I knew how to do that, I wouldn't get Vonage (or Verizon) either!
This doesn't SAVE Vonage - it just allows them to continue to exist until Verizon can either buy them on the cheap or else get lots of money from them. In order for your argument to make sense, then Verizon would have to believe that another larger player in the VOIP market was going to emerge that they should wait and try to extort for a larger payday in the future. Of course, I am hypothesizing on the premise that Verizon is trying to act like a patent troll.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Here's the patent Click Here
I pay $16 a month for 500 minutes, which is about 30 minutes more than I have ever used in one month. I can take my little Vonage box with me to any broadband connection on earth and my phone magically rings there. When someone leaves me voicemail their message gets emailed to me. If I ever want to see who has called me or who I have called I can check it on a webpage. I've had Vonage for almost three years now and haven't had a single problem with it.
Tell me what can compete with this for $4 a month. Hell, tell me what can compete with this for even $30 a month. I used to pay almost $40 a month just for local phone service!
Wasn't much a fight since verizon was in favor of letting them add customers. Of course, if Verizon wins, that will be that many more customers for Vonage to have pay royalites for.
I hope you don't expect them to play fair and respect the little guy.
OK, my opinion may be clouded by a couple of especially seedy Indians I recently dealt with and I have meat alot of decent Indians. The follwing does not apply to 'the good ones'.
Indian's just want to take advantage of you. This is just as true if you pay them for outsourceing or if they pay you for work.
Verizon has to be at least 50% H1-Bs. If you would like to know who is driving down tech wages look no further. Meanwhile these sleazebags are suing the real innovators so that they may better rape the consumer.
This type of thing only reinforces my racial hatred.
Through any number of wholesale VoIP providers. This might help : http://www.voipproviderslist.com/
I've personally used Unlimitel (In Canada) for over a year and have been extremely happy with the service. $2.50/month for a DID and $0.01/minute for calls on their network, which is where I place most of my calls. It was far, far cheaper with me (With 4 DIDs) using their service than even basic service from other providers.
You're best off if you're running your own PBX, such as Asterisk, since you can provide your own voice mail services etc.
It seems that they have patented using a computer to store information and to facilitate a transaction.
Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!
http://financialpetition.org/
I like how when Microsoft subtly destroys competition, the courts make a grand show of slapping them on the wrist with fines, while Verizon gets complete court approval to openly eliminate a competitor with ridiculous patents. Perhaps M$ should change tactics?
This is not flamebait. What kind of tricky scheme are you running?
Vonage, Verizon, VA, VoIP. Too many Vs!!
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Here: http://pulverblog.pulver.com/archives/006846.html
Verizon is looking more and more screwed every day....This doesn't SAVE Vonage - it just allows them to continue to exist until Verizon can either buy them on the cheap or else get lots of money from them. In order for your argument to make sense, then Verizon would have to believe that another larger player in the VOIP market was going to emerge that they should wait and try to extort for a larger payday in the future.
It's not about the money. Phone companies in general aren't about making money; They have more money than God. What do they need an extra 60 mil for?
The telcos are all about power; Consolidating theirs. If there are external voice players out there, they want them eliminated. A rival and real competition would threaten their hold on their market, and that's not something they'll stand for. VoIP has the potential to be the most disrupting technology since the internet itself; The telcoms are terrified of it. If they can supress it long enough to establish a strangle hold on it, they win.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
I think this is just another example of if your a BIG enough company you can break the law and basically continue to without really paying consequences. Patent laws don't mean anything if you can make billions. You can always tie the courts up for years or find some Republican, politician, under the table judge to help you out.
The point of a patent is no more.
Are you kidding? Verizon's request was for an injunction shutting down Vonage's VoIP services altogether immediately until the appeals were complete. The "no new customers" was a compromise by the judge.
Who is John Galt?
Woo hoo! Woo hoo hoo!
The problem is there are like a brazillion different providers. How do you know which are worthwhile?
Don't forget Vonage has free unlimited calling anywhere in the US, Canada, Peurto Rico, and certain parts of UK now as well. Show me another provider that gives me Caller ID, Voice mail to email, call waiting for $32 a month and I might consider it. Honestly, I've had Vonage now for just a little over a year now, and it's been great. It was hilarious to get a call from Verizon a couple of months after the switch though dangling the "FIOS" carrot, like that would ever be available in a small town in the middle of nowhere.
The problem is that Vonage is relying on Verizon's infrastructure (DSL, PSTN) in order for their business to function. If it wasn't possible for people with Verizon DSL to use Vonage or to call a Verizon PSTN customer from Vonage, Vonage wouldn't have a product.
This is like buying your hamburgers at McDonalds and selling them at a discount from a cart in the parking lot. OK, so McDonalds made a deal with you to sell you the burgers at a big discount because you bought so many. Well, at some point they will notice what you are doing and stop. And like Vonage and Verizon, when the supplier pulls the plug, it's over.
This is what happens when you build a business model leeching off of an established supplier. The established supplier hates you and will do just about anything to get rid of you. It's not like Vonage has a product that can exist independently of Verizon or any other existing telecom company. We have seen this business model go down several times in the past 10-20 years or so and while it is a fun ride for the investors, it has no staying power.
Vonage is going down, it is just a matter of time. If they can't be shut down with patents, they will be shut down by some other means.
Thanks for all the info buddy!
I imagine setting up a PBX is for using multiple lines in your own home?
Arr, my mateys, raise the jawlly rawjah!
If it were done when 'tis done, then t'were well it were done quickly... MacBeth
i emailed verizon about this crap last time there was a big thread. here is my email and the response:
I recently read about Verizon's attempt to stop Vonage from allowing VOIP calls to connect to old telephone systems on basis of "patent infringement". If I recall, other companies used the technology mentioned before Verizon had acquired those patents. I have to say that I'm angry and baffled.
What is the ultimate goal for this type of action? Do you think that all of the Vonage customers who could potentially be without service soon would flock to gobble up everything Verizon has to offer? Don't you think that those people that have Vonage land lines, but have Verizon cellular service might reconsider their wireless provider when it's time to renew the contract? I don't have a wireless phone, but I had considered getting service from Verizon. You guys just shot that to hell. Well done.
- Show quoted text -
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: customersupport@verizon.com
Date: Mar 23, 2007 3:38 PM
Subject: RE:Verizon.com Consumer email response [#16185185]
Thank you for contacting the Verizon eCenter. I have received your email dated March 23, 2007 regarding our recent lawsuit with Vonage. Thank you for taking the time to provide us with your comments. My name is Wendy, and I will be happy to assist you.
We appreciate you sharing your concerns with us. We value the opinions of our customers and those that visit our website. On March 8, 2007, a jury found that Vonage Holdings Corp. had infringed three United States patents awarded to Verizon covering methods of offering commercial-quality VoIP services, including wireless access to VoIP.
As stated by John Thorne, a Verizon senior vice president and deputy general counsel, "Patents encourage and protect innovations that benefit consumers, create jobs, and keep the economy growing. Verizon's innovations are central to its strategy of building the best communications networks in the world. We are proud of our inventors and pleased the jury stood up for the legal protections they deserve."
I hope I have resolved your reason for contacting us. If you have additional questions, or if we may be of assistance to you in the future, please let us know. We look forward to serving you.
Thank you for using Verizon. We appreciate your business.
Sincerely,
Wendy
Verizon eCenter
to customersupport
Mar 23
My main question is what constitues infringment by Vonage and not others who offer identical service? Will you be suing all companies that are able to bill by the minute (every wireless carrier on the planet)? All VOIP providers that connect to POTS (Virtually ALL cable providers)?
- Show quoted text -
Mar 26
Thank you for contacting the Verizon eCenter.
I apologize for the delay in my response, and I regret any inconvenience to you.
My name is Jamie and I have been forwarded your email with further questions regarding the Vonage lawsuit. You wanted to know if Verizon plans to pursue other companies who have produced the same services as Vonage. You also wanted clarification as to what constitutes infringement by Vonage, and not other VOIP carriers.
Vonage is the only company to our knowledge that used our specific patents to produce their products. Other VOIP companies that offer this service were able to provide this service using a different method other than our patents.
At this time, we do not have any intention to pursue other companies regarding this issue. We are not aware of other companies that have used our patents to produce this service.
If any further companies attempt to use a Verizon patent, a press release will be issued advising of any plan of action against other companies.
I hope this has clarified your concerns.
Thank you for using Verizon. We appreciate your business.
Sincerely,
Jamie
Supervisor
Verizon eCenter
"...if you don't like your job, you don't strike. You just go in every day and do it really half-assed..." -Homer