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Karl Auerbach — ICANN the USSR of the Internet

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the back-in-the-ussr dept.

gnaremooz writes to tell us that The Register recently sat down with Karl Auerbach, the last publicly elected member of the ICANN board, and discussed some of the more recent developments. "Perhaps my main point of view regarding what I want to do for the net is expressed in my presentation [PPT] "From Barnstorming to Boeing - Transforming the Internet Into a Lifeline Utility" (speakers notes avilable [PDF]). I've long been interested in making the net a solid utility, and I have a great deal of sympathy for the folks who have to go out and fix things at 3am. I'm very interested in building tools for those folks."

35 comments

  1. Should the US start occupations of domain names? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    To prevent the domino effect?

  2. Brave! Speakers Notes?!? by jmagar.com · · Score: 1
    I guard my speakers notes. Shield them from everyone. Lame jokes, look even lamer when written down.

    Not everyone suspects this, but I am a card-carrying lawyer.
    Yup, I'm one of those people.
    Being a member of the evil race, it seems natural to me...

    This sort of thing takes practice and timing. And of course the option to abort; to skip the joke if the room isn't with you yet...

    Anyway, I appreciate the gesture, speakers notes often have the best information.

    --
    www.jmagar.com
    -
  3. Admirable goals by zappepcs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    but as he points out in the PPT, manufacturers of end / edge devices are not holding up enough resources to participate in self healing networks. It might take near doubling the cost and development efforts to create edge / end user devices that can participate in such networks.

    If its just at the backbone section of the Internet, can be done, but creating the library that allows your email application to know that the network is down, and to try sending via a relay server or some other relay method, takes a bit more effort and cooperation. Even if functions like this are only built into the OS networking (cable modem connection vs. wireless connection) redundancy and self healing get complex and expensive at the edge of the Internet cloud, and depend greatly on what the ISP will pass back to end users as to the condition of the network. The ISP part is where this will break down so that end users will still see the same Internet they have always seen. At least this will be true until ISP's are forced to play nicer.

    --
    Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
    1. Re:Admirable goals by timeOday · · Score: 1
      I don't think that level of reliability is required. People are happy enough to think of the POTS system as "reliable," even though there is only one little wire running up to your house, with no failover.

      There will always be tension beetween efficiency and reserve capacity. We don't want to subsidize agriculture, but we don't want to go hungry every time crop yeilds dip below 98% of expectations, either.

    2. Re:Admirable goals by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

      I recently watched a Google talk by Van Jacobson (http://tinyurl.com/28j762) about changing the way we design networks to accommodate the new tasks we use them for. To summarize: a dialing in a circuit switched network can be described as programming a path within the network; your destination identifier also determines the exact route you take. But weren't interested in the path once communication lines were everywhere - we were interested in conversations between endpoints, and the path was irrelevant. So packet-switching gave us the independence we needed to continue innovating.

      In this talk, he proposes that we no longer care even about establishing a conversation between two parties; that is now as irrelevant as the path. What we care about is information, and disseminating it to all interested parties. In this dissemination network, instead of sending and receiving data to and from another host specified by a network address, you would actually exchange data with the network itself and allow it to manage the details of how it is distributed. (Obviously, security would be a concern, but that too can be implemented by the network.)

      Of course there's little to no chance of this kind of revolution changing the face of the Internet within decades. The details, economics, liabilities, etc., are just too foreign to our current models. But a man can dream.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    3. Re:Admirable goals by zappepcs · · Score: 1

      Actually, I am not so sure that change is that far away. I know this example isn't a one size fits all, but if every house in a gated community, or club of home owners were to sign up and use a Tor like service such that no one knew exactly where their packets went, or through which ISP, it would provide a lot of redundancy. All the participants would need to use wireless, and everything would have to be configured to participate, but if your ISP has a local outage, you are less likely to notice if your personal network access has multiple entry points into the Internet cloud.

      By sheer accident, many neighbors all use the same ISP sadly. But where there is true multiple options for ISP it would work, at least at the redundancy stage. Using Tor or something like it would also create a bit of security through obscurity. Not sure how much opportunity it would give hackers, but properly networked, it could function.

      Another option is point2multipoint microwave that covers participating areas with a limited feed to the Internet cloud. Additionally, I believe that WiMax has important contributions in this area for redundancy and security. Cost becomes a factor, but that could be limited as secondary systems only provide limited capacities.

      Another issue is that if municipalities created their own local WAN, with all users connecting via that lWAN, it could use redundant connections to the Internet cloud, operating at reduced capacity while one or more of the redunancy links is down. The municipality would connect via all telco operators in the area as well as cable companies etc. This option would provide true choice of ISP services. Each end user pays modest fees, the service providers 'rent' connections to those end users via the municipality's lWAN.

      Its a few thoughts anyway

      --
      Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
  4. Oblig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Russia, internet fixes you!

  5. He forgot something.... by toolo · · Score: 1

    Left-brained, text filled presentations are uninteresting no matter what the topic is.

    Why even make this a Powerpoint presentation? Let the communicators do the communicating, let the engineers focus on the fixing.... then maybe someone will pay attention.

    One of the reasons why there isn't much investment in doing IT "correctly" is because of the inability of engineering types to communicate properly to the investor, in my experience.

  6. oblig by auroran · · Score: 2, Funny

    In Soviet Internet, data pipes you?

  7. Oh come on now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    This was posted just for a huge, long thread of ISR jokes.

    Obvious and blantant pandering!

  8. How about the presentation in PDF or ODF? by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Great, but in the interest of reaching the largest possible audience, how about posting at least an alternate copy of the presentation in a less insecure and more interoperable format like ODF or PDF. Both do presentations and since the main beef is about USSR-like control, using PDF or ODF would be putting money where the mouth is -- both are published, open standards.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  9. Okay, Johnny One-Note by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    We know you hate ICANN and think it is more an evil empire than the USSR ever was, but at least attach that tiresome rant to a topic that at least makes a single, solitary passing mention of ICANN.

    1. Re:Okay, Johnny One-Note by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      huh? This is slashdot.

    2. Re:Okay, Johnny One-Note by The_Wilschon · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair, the title of the Register article that the summary linked to is "ICANN is the USSR of the internet - Karl Auerbach speaks out". The summary doesn't mention this, however, and perhaps should, or else change the title...

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
  10. Auerbach's approach has always bucked trends by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Informative

    When his grass-roots election to ICANN happened, he ended up against the madness that ICANN was and is. Goto http://www.cavebear.com/ and get his story. He's a protocols expert, worked for Cisco at high levels, and knows his chops. You could also see him hanging from the rafters at InterOp. Yeah, he's a lawyer, too. Add a moral geek with an atty, and that's what you get.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  11. Untrue Comparison. by Dputiger · · Score: 1
    The fact that Auerbach compares ICANN to the USSR is something I find offensive. The USSR was directly responsible for some of the most heinous crimes against its own citizens in recorded history. Ten million Russians died during WWII--but Stalin executed an estimated 27 million of his own people during his time in power. Other Soviet leaders may have been less barbarous, but the USSR never exactly gained a reputation as "a good place to live."

    Regardless of the problems of ICANN, comparing it to the USSR is just as bad as comparing it to Nazi Germany, and should immediately result in the invocation of Godwin's Law. ;) Auerbach loses. :P

    1. Re:Untrue Comparison. by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      And add to that that, it didn't do everything badly. a) As you say, other soviet leaders may have been less barbarous. Like Gorbachev maybe? Kruschev(sp?)? So it was bad leadership, not the USSR itself. I mean really... we kill people too. When you strip away the media sound bytes and the claims of WMD, isn't a dead body a dead body?

      and b) The USSR wasn't all bad. You know that for all the bad we say about them, it was the general consensus among Soviets that tales of homelessness in the US was propaganda by their own government. They didn't have homeless people, and couldn't imagine that any country that was as powerful and had a better reputation than them worldwide could possibly have people living on the streets with no shelter. So when they heard about it, they naturally assumed it was more propaganda by their own government.

      Isn't it funny how people's perceptions can be warped?

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    2. Re:Untrue Comparison. by belmolis · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is a silly complaint. He didn't compare ICANN to the USSR. He compared the governance structure of ICANN to that of the USSR, a very different thing. He never even hints that ICANN's activities are comparable in nature to those of the USSR.

      It may be offensive to compare every little thing you don't like to the USSR or Nazi Germany, but I find it just as offensive when people get all snitty about any comparison involving the USSR or Nazi Germany. People of any intelligence understand that saying that two things are comparable in certain respects does not mean that they are comparable in other respects. Comparing ICANN's governance structure to that of the USSR does not imply that ICANN kills and imprisons people, nor does it imply that killing and imprisoning people is no worse than playing footsie with Verisign etc.

    3. Re:Untrue Comparison. by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      "you don't want to go there, you may be homeless"
      "yeah yeah, whatever propaganda monkey"
      "no seriously"
      "yeah yeah, whatever propaganda monkey"
      *wall comes down, curtain falls*
      "holy crap! it wasn't propaganda... "
      *moves to US anyway*

      -nB

      (please note that I do not resent the influx. Their crime largely stays within their population, and they are some of the hardest workers I know)

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    4. Re:Untrue Comparison. by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Hehehe its true.

      Going offtopic here but... that tends to be true.

      Never mind the fact that there is a little selection going on here... a migrant is someone who moved. That right there shows they are more ambitious than the average person in some way. Not to say all ambitous people move, just that slackers tend not to.

      All groups have crime. How many ethnic groups don't have a large international organized crime syndicate or two? We Italians made it popular, but its as old as dirt. Ever since there were laws to break, someone has been breaking them. It really works like any other market.

      In any population, no matter how big the crime, its only going to be a small small percentage of the population "involved" (obviously I mean directly taking part, I wouldn't call the small time shopkeeper who pays protection "involved"). I mean, shit... what percentage of the population is involved in any individual industry?

      Its like saying they leave their butchers at home.

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    5. Re:Untrue Comparison. by Daychilde · · Score: 0

      In Soviet Russua, Godwin threads *you*. Wait, what?

      --
      A cheerful little bird is sitting here singing.
  12. cheap TLDs by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

    we have recently seen several other TLDs drop their prices down into the sub $0.25 per year range"

    Hey! Where do I find these ultra-cheap TLDs?

    --
    Nothing for 6-digit uids?
  13. It's worth a try... by danbert8 · · Score: 1

    In soviet ICANN, domains register you!

    --
    Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
  14. Try to Justify your 6th figure. by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    Web portals are resources to do just that.

    Leave the internet unregulated and allow web portals to provide limiting "features" when users demand them.

    What you do it censor content and control aspects of the internet that we don't need censored or controlled.

    It's information, not a hammer As seen by its obvious yet lack of ability to smash you into inaction

  15. poopsmear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    In soviet ICANN, DNS resolves YOU!

  16. ICANN...Not..... by IHC+Navistar · · Score: 1

    Is it at all possible to defy ICANN? I mean, if I were to create an ISP, with my own network and such, albeit a small one, is it possible to defy ICANN?

    Back in the '60s and '70s, some guy out near me got tired of all the BS with Ma Bell, so he created his own telephone system. Could the same be done as a way to get around ICANN?

    ICANN-OT

    --
    Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
    1. Re:ICANN...Not..... by NobleSavage · · Score: 1

      Sure - but your network would only be as good/big as the people use it. Some guy tried a while back http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlterNIC

  17. Like the USSR? We could only be so lucky... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Before tagging this one flamebait, please hear me out.
    If ICANN was indeed a totalitarian system, then why do we have so many registrars and so little control over them?
    How many registrars are in China, and will respond as if they don't speak English when someone from the US tries to complain to them?
    With the exception of the recent problem with registerfly, can anyone name an action that ICANN has taken against anyone?
    At best, ICANN resembles Russia as it is now - a poorly regulated market-based system. Some people are making lots of money on the system (some even are doing it in an honorable fashion), and lots of people are still losing. But considering how few controls are actually in place, it really is an insult to Soviet Russia to compare ICANN to the Kremlin.

  18. Re:Like the USSR? We could only be so lucky... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In soviet Russia
    Parent thread mods up YOU

  19. Hmmm by renegadesx · · Score: 1, Interesting

    So in ICANN.. ODF uses you??

    --
    Make SELinux enforcing again!