Half of Mars May Have Ice

Ixlr8 sends in a BBC story suggesting that up to half of Mars may have ice at varying depths below the surface. Quoting: "Up until now, scientists had been able to search for water deposits using a spectrometer fixed to the orbiting Mars Odyssey spacecraft. However, only readings that are accurate to within several hundred kilometers can be obtained. By comparing seasonal changes in thermal infrared patterns, detected by the same Odyssey spacecraft, [scientists] can make readings accurate to within just hundreds of meters."

Comments

Really interesting, but new technique?

[tinkertim]

The TFA is just long enough to piss you off that its not longer and more detailed. You walk away with a picture of lakes and possibly oceans iced over and covered up by a few million years of space dust.

Apparently, instead of using a spectrometer, he's comparing seasonal changes in thermal infrared patterns. It doesn't mention if he's comparing AGAINST spectrometer data, it doesn't mention how he's able to determine depth, and it doesn't mention why its any more accurate than just using a spectrometer.

I could tell that someone who knows much less than I do about how to find water on mars wrote the article, and I know next to nothing on the subject. After reading TFA, I still know next to nothing on the subject.

Re:Really interesting, but new technique?

[tinkertim]

What do you want from the BBC

I want the authors to pretend to show interest in the things that they author :) I think i'm annoyed at the total lack of any evidence that the reporter asked any questions at all.

I can't expect everyone to get a twinkle in their eye if we come a little closer to colonizing other planets, but I can get pissed off occasionally when they don't I suppose, especially if its a reporter.

Mars isn't the only place (hopefully) that these investigations will take place. You don't need to understand the technology to appreciate its usefulness and ask a few questions.

But, good point. Its not (entirely) the BBC's fault.

Re:Really interesting, but new technique?

[uab21]

Try Space.com on the same story (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070502_mars _ice.html). for a slightly more meaty version. Evidently using data from a new bird with higher resolution combined with assumptions on effectiveness of soil insulation.

Re:Really interesting, but new technique?

[tardyon]

I read (some of) the Nature article. They are not using the spectrometer data at all - except by way of saying "there really is ice there". What they are doing is measuring, using infrared cameras only, how quickly the surface changes temperature due to seasonal changes. Water (ice) has a huge specific heat capacity, so it changes temperature more slowly. The more ice mixed in with the dust/rock, the more slowly it changes temperature.

To get depth, they note that the surface temperature changes first, then the temperature change slowly trickles down to deeper layers. So stuff that changes temperature really fast has no matter near the surface, stuff that changes slow has some water near the surface, and stuff that changes initially very fast but then stops and lets everything else catch up and surpass it has ice but its buried deep.

Naturally it's more complicated than this. They used computer simulations to help figure out what their observations probably meant in terms of amount of ice and depth of ice, but that's the gist it (as far as I can tell).

how shallow does it get?

[jcgf]

Could we push off a meter of dust and get to the ice to build a skating rink? The pioneers will need something to do for fun once the colonies begin.

Re:how shallow does it get?

[R2.0]

"pioneers will need something to do for fun once the colonies begin."

I'm sure they will do the same thing settlers did in every colonozation waze in human history.

Fucking. Lots and lots of baby making.

Sign me up.

Re:A new earth for us

[Dr. Eggman]

I dunno about anyone else, but when I try to fix something, I tend to make it worse or even break more things before I fix the problem. Making another survivable world would teach us a lot about how to fix our own, without making things worse on our own planet first.

Other arguments about global natural disasters, such as asteroid impacts, collapse of the earth's magnetic field, the eventual burnout of our own sun, ect, also provide reasons why the earth is not enough.

Too bad...

[aardvarkjoe]

Unfortunately, the other half has all the beer.

Re:A new earth for us

[Red Flayer]

I never understood the argument for populating another planet as a means for survival.

The same reason you use RAID to help your data survive. Redundancy. When the big one (meteor) hits, it won't wipe out the entire species.

Although, it should be said that Redundant Array of Planetary Environments doesn't acronymize as well as Redundant Array of Inexpensive Drives.

Uses for finely ground ice

[billstewart]

If we've colonized the place, then we'll have the capability of generating ethanol. Combining that with Martian ice should let you make margaritas, or at least dacquiris, which should take care of what you need...

Another more-detailed article

[qeveren]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/07050 2143733.htm

Re:A new earth for us

[tinkertim]

I never understood the argument for populating another planet as a means for survival. Surely it'll be easier to undo whatever we do to this planet -- a planet with resources we've harnessed, that has equipment, that we know has supported life -- than it would be to make another planet survivable.

If you understand that we are by nature parasites, and that 'shit happens', you'll see the need evidence itself.

Humans have only two (real) predators. Ourselves and viruses. There currently isn't much else keeping us in check on a regular basis.

Think about virusus for a minute because they are amazing survivors. A smart virus never fully disables or consumes its host. It knows if the host goes away, it goes away unless it can find another host.

Since, to this planet we are very much a virus, we need to be comfortable just admitting it, realizing that there is a high probability that we will do something terminally bad to this planet and find space to spread out. If we don't outright destroy it, we will overconsume it or die trying. Reference my previous statement, we have no natural predators other than ourselves and viruses. Now, we create viruses - even worse, genome specific viruses.

We have nukes, H-Bombs, American Idol, (I could go on).

The common cold is probably one of the best survivors I know of. It spreads from host to host easily and never really disables them. It can stay as long as it wants because it mutates so well. We need to aspire to be a cosmic cold in order to perpetuate, there is no question about it.

Hey, you asked :)

My god, it's full of ice!

[rubberbandball]

Coming summer 20(xx): D4: Ducks on Mars. Emilio Estevez, amazingly still alive; reprises his role as coach of the district 5 hockey team. Even more amazing, no one on the team has aged and they are all in peak physical condition since the last film in the series. Also, the old man who runs the store is alive. The team travels to Mars to compete against some nation who is vastly better in at hockey in every way than the USA in the first Interplanetary-No-One-Cares-About-Hockey Tournament. Along the way, they find out the true meaning of friendship and family; and much to the dismay of NASA, the girl who plays the other goalie in the 2nd and 3rd movies has sex with everyone on board except Goldberg. I for one, cannot wait.

The Halfs and the Halfs-Not

[R3d M3rcury]

You see, this is the problem with Mars: One half has all the ice and the other half has none. There should be an equitable sharing of the ice. We need to get some Marsxists up there ASAP.

Either that, or the other half of Mars needs to get some ice quickly. After all, we cannot have an Ice gap...

Scientists have also discovered

[obeythefist]

A large console underneath the surface of mars, with a funny looking handprint.

When discussing with chief scientist/agent Douglas Quaid, he commented "Two weeeeks". Then he put his hand on the console, melted the ice, got blown outside and his face puffed up and burst.

True story.