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Half of Mars May Have Ice
Ixlr8 sends in a BBC story suggesting that up to half of Mars may have ice at varying depths below the surface. Quoting: "Up until now, scientists had been able to search for water deposits using a spectrometer fixed to the orbiting Mars Odyssey spacecraft. However, only readings that are accurate to within several hundred kilometers can be obtained. By comparing seasonal changes in thermal infrared patterns, detected by the same Odyssey spacecraft, [scientists] can make readings accurate to within just hundreds of meters."
The TFA is just long enough to piss you off that its not longer and more detailed. You walk away with a picture of lakes and possibly oceans iced over and covered up by a few million years of space dust.
Apparently, instead of using a spectrometer, he's comparing seasonal changes in thermal infrared patterns. It doesn't mention if he's comparing AGAINST spectrometer data, it doesn't mention how he's able to determine depth, and it doesn't mention why its any more accurate than just using a spectrometer.
I could tell that someone who knows much less than I do about how to find water on mars wrote the article, and I know next to nothing on the subject. After reading TFA, I still know next to nothing on the subject.
Let the other half eat cake.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
I never understood the argument for populating another planet as a means for survival. Surely it'll be easier to undo whatever we do to this planet -- a planet with resources we've harnessed, that has equipment, that we know has supported life -- than it would be to make another planet survivable.
But I'm not the smartest man in the world, although I am in the running for smartest ass in the world.
I wonder if I use bold in my signature, people will notice my posts.
Could we push off a meter of dust and get to the ice to build a skating rink? The pioneers will need something to do for fun once the colonies begin.
You need all that ice to create a breathable atmosphere on Mars!
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
I dunno about anyone else, but when I try to fix something, I tend to make it worse or even break more things before I fix the problem. Making another survivable world would teach us a lot about how to fix our own, without making things worse on our own planet first.
Other arguments about global natural disasters, such as asteroid impacts, collapse of the earth's magnetic field, the eventual burnout of our own sun, ect, also provide reasons why the earth is not enough.
Demented But Determined.
That may be true, but it would be hard undoing "whatever we do to this planet" if we kill ourselves doing it. Or if something totally unexpected happens that we can't plan for, prevent, or adapt to.
Surely it'll be easier to undo whatever we do to this planet -- a planet with resources we've harnessed, that has equipment, that we know has supported life -- than it would be to make another planet survivable.
I agree with that, but hopefully, if and when we populate another planet, it won't be because we screwed this one up, it'll because we filled this one up. It would also increase our probability for survival because we won't all be in one place. So we won't all die when the Vogons come.
That was pretty thoughtful of you to copypasta the article. It's always a good idea- you never know when we might slashdot the BBC.
"We shall grapple with the ineffable, and see if we may not eff it after all." - Douglas Adams
No news at 11.
I agree. People aren't cut out for inter-planetary colonization. We evolved here, with Earth's life all around us, and other environments either poison us, starve us of resources available here (like air and water), freeze us, bake us, or crush us. We'll have colonized much of the sea floor long before we terraform Mars. I suspect that robots we create will colonize space and/or other planets long before we do, and that's pretty darned unlikely. If interstellar travel takes 1,000 years, that's a big problem for humans, but not so much for a robot.
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
If we take life to Mars, life will evolve there all the same as it has here. Colonization will mean people and a bunch of bacteria, etc. Life will adapt with enough time in an environment that is even barely viable.
I say that the glass Mars is half empty of ice.
Unfortunately, the other half has all the beer.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Although, it should be said that Redundant Array of Planetary Environments doesn't acronymize as well as Redundant Array of Inexpensive Drives.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
If we've colonized the place, then we'll have the capability of generating ethanol. Combining that with Martian ice should let you make margaritas, or at least dacquiris, which should take care of what you need...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/07050 2143733.htm
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
If you understand that we are by nature parasites, and that 'shit happens', you'll see the need evidence itself.
Humans have only two (real) predators. Ourselves and viruses. There currently isn't much else keeping us in check on a regular basis.
Think about virusus for a minute because they are amazing survivors. A smart virus never fully disables or consumes its host. It knows if the host goes away, it goes away unless it can find another host.
Since, to this planet we are very much a virus, we need to be comfortable just admitting it, realizing that there is a high probability that we will do something terminally bad to this planet and find space to spread out. If we don't outright destroy it, we will overconsume it or die trying. Reference my previous statement, we have no natural predators other than ourselves and viruses. Now, we create viruses - even worse, genome specific viruses.
We have nukes, H-Bombs, American Idol, (I could go on).
The common cold is probably one of the best survivors I know of. It spreads from host to host easily and never really disables them. It can stay as long as it wants because it mutates so well. We need to aspire to be a cosmic cold in order to perpetuate, there is no question about it.
Hey, you asked
Coming summer 20(xx): D4: Ducks on Mars. Emilio Estevez, amazingly still alive; reprises his role as coach of the district 5 hockey team. Even more amazing, no one on the team has aged and they are all in peak physical condition since the last film in the series. Also, the old man who runs the store is alive. The team travels to Mars to compete against some nation who is vastly better in at hockey in every way than the USA in the first Interplanetary-No-One-Cares-About-Hockey Tournament. Along the way, they find out the true meaning of friendship and family; and much to the dismay of NASA, the girl who plays the other goalie in the 2nd and 3rd movies has sex with everyone on board except Goldberg. I for one, cannot wait.
oh marmalade.
But the question is typically about things we don't do that are difficult to fix as we've never experienced said problems before(massive impact, global nuclear war, etc...) Besides, never hurts to hedge the bet.
I still say it's easier to deal with whatever happens on Earth than it would be to bootstrap another planet.
I wonder if I use bold in my signature, people will notice my posts.
If enough people are willing to do that prior to either 'shit happening' or total resource consumption, then great. I hope you realize this is a very dubious notion, at best.
We need a plan B in place.
Either that, or the other half of Mars needs to get some ice quickly. After all, we cannot have an Ice gap...
Plan B can either be riding out the storm or jumping ship. Both require prior work. Option A is, in my opinion, much more practical.
I wonder if I use bold in my signature, people will notice my posts.
Considering that our species first appeared in central African grasslands and has since spread to every continent and latitude on the planet (yes, scientists living in Antarctica count)we are a surprisingly resilient species. Low-oxygen mountain regions, arctic tundra, jungles, deserts - these are all environments that our species has learned to live in through physiological and technological adaptations. Humans aren't all that fragile.
Yeah, but if we can do both, why not? Its going to take enormous amounts of social reforms to get everyone cooperating globally in order for plan A to work. That's going to take quite a bit of time. We may need to first eliminate money before companies stop futher evidencing the need for plan B.
We may as well be looking. In fact I think its rather foolish not to be looking, given the circumstances while keeping in mind probability and the chaos 'shit happens' factor.
well done
The same reason you use RAID to help your data survive. Redundancy.
Or we could use the other aspect of RAID and use another planet for the human population to grow faster ;-).
You just got troll'd!
All in all, I'd say we're pretty amazing creatures. I worry (just a little) that someday our own creations might become intelligent and take over the world, like in so many sci-fi novels. However, two people can take nothing but plants and water and use them to create more people. As our computers become exponentially more powerful, the fabs needed to make them become exponentially more expensive. Survival for a machine race would be far more fragile than for humans (blow up a few fabs, terminate the race). However, we seem to be making far better progress towards building machines complex enough to think than we are at interplanetary colonization. Our basic space craft has not really improved much in 40 years, and if our machines can continue advancing for another 40 years at this rate, they will hands down out-compute us. If our space craft continue to improve at this rate, we'll have... nothing special.
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
Since the water is so widespread and the mapping is accurate, why not send the existing robots spirit and/or opportunity to investigate this evidence?
All you have to do is activate the reactor to melt it to release all the oxygen. Watch out for Benny, he's not who he seems.
When you have finished this cup of coffee your adventure will begin again.
Well I was going to point out that since the point of RAID is using cheaper drives whose reliability comes from redundancy that this should be included in the acronym, but then I realized that Redundant Array of Inexpensive Planets isn't any better. :(
The enemies of Democracy are
I thought about that, but also I don't think it'll be cheap to set up shop on Mars or other planets. Plus, I thought the acronym pretty fitting for how we treat planetary environments (well, the one we have access to) in general.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Gin.
It doesn't matter how much ice is present on Mars. The planet lacks a sufficient mass for holding an Earth-like atmosphere. You can terra-form all you want, pump loads of oxygen, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen into that atmosphere... it's just going to be lost on the solar wind.
Sure, we could probably get a little in-door civilization going there. Just don't plan on going for a walk around Victoria crater.
It's just a new advertising campaign for that Will Ferrell, John Heder ice skating movie.
"To be is to do." --Socrates
"To do is to be." -- Aristotle
"Do-Be-Do-Be-Do..." --Sinatra
A large console underneath the surface of mars, with a funny looking handprint.
When discussing with chief scientist/agent Douglas Quaid, he commented "Two weeeeks". Then he put his hand on the console, melted the ice, got blown outside and his face puffed up and burst.
True story.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
Half of Mars May Have Ice
;)
Wow, and to think that they say we have an ice problem here!
Between the falling angel and the rising ape
The only way we could be considered parasites is if we consider the Earth to be a living organism. Since the Earth does not reproduce, metabolize, grow, or do any of the other things we consider to be basic functions of life, it's hard to buy that definition. We may exploit the resources at our disposal, but that is not the definition of parasitic behavior. Any life, left unchecked, would eventually use up all of the resources available to it, and in the process, create an environment unsuitable for its own survival. Fortunately, we have the benefit of consciousness and foresight, things which viruses do not possess, and may yet avoid causing our own extinction.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere