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Would You Install Pirated Software at Work?

An anonymous reader asks: "I am an IT professional, and due to budget constraints, I have been told to install multiple copies of MS Office, despite offering to install OpenOffice, and other OpenSource Office products. Even though most of the uses are for people using Excel like a database, or formatting of text in cells, other programs are not tolerated. I have been over ruled by our controller, to my disagreement. I would never turn them in, but I am in tough place by knowing doing something illegal. I want to keep my job, but disagree with some of the decision making on this issue. Other than drafting a letter to the owners of the company on how I disagree with the policy, what else can I do?"

31 of 848 comments (clear)

  1. Just watch your back by AmIAnAi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You must ask yourself: if they're willing to overrule you and insist you commit an illegal act, how are they going to behave should this come to the attention of FAST (or other enforcement body)? My guess is they will dump it all on your shoulders. If they don't play by the rules now, they certainly will not start when their backs are against the wall.

    I suggest you document everything, off site and get your CV circulated immediately.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.
    1. Re:Just watch your back by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You work for the government and you don't think they'll dump possible licensing issues on your shoulders? No offense but that's a bit naive, the gov is MORE likely to do that than your average company, not less, as has been shown by the large number of times a low level person in the government is fired for one of the big timer's mistakes. If I were you I'd get those documents in triplicate in different places...

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    2. Re:Just watch your back by cliffski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      why would he have to quit? Just don't do it. What is the worst that can happen? they fire you? I don't know US law but in the UK, that would be clear cut unfair dismissal and they could be severely punished by the courts. I doubt you are a union member, but if you are, this is the kind of thing you would have them handle.
      It amazes me that execs in companies can be such thieving bastards, even in companies that themselves make software. If it was somehow necessary for you to quit, then I would 100% definitely report them to FAST if they went ahead anyway. In any case, it sounds like a pretty low-life employer, so your medium to long term plan should be to leave anyway.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    3. Re:Just watch your back by tehwebguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wouldn't he be legally responsible for taking that action, even if he were ordered to do so?

      --
      -- lol pwned
    4. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes.

      It is your responsibility to disobey illegal orders.

    5. Re:Just watch your back by mysidia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Talk to the Legal department or the company's counsel. The senior execs will probably never listen to you (mine never have), but they might listen to someone else in management.

      I would suggest Legal department/counsel, if your company has one, is where you should be going if you are concerned with legal ramifications -- that's their job, they are the ones paid to determine what is and isn't the best legal way to proceed.

      Installing multiple copies of Office is not illegal, but copyright infringment is, and it's up to the lawyers to sort out what can and cannot be done, to minimize liability.

      And they may know things you don't know, like special super-secret deals the company may have signed out with software vendors, that you're not privvy to or allowed to know about.

      If the lawyers who specialize in the law and representing the company say it's OK and sign their name to it, then you have to take their word on the matter, even if you personally disagree -- it's their a** on the line, not yours.

    6. Re:Just watch your back by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the only sensible course of action here, but I would add: do NOT do something illegal on behalf of your employer

      Ditto. An old boss of mine was a bit of a bully, and one day he called me into a private meeting and asked me to break into an ex-employee's server to see if they'd copied any of our code (it was actually quite likely). I told him point blank that I wouldn't be doing it and suggested he talk to a solicitor about the suspected copyright infringement. His response? "Oh. Um, okay." It's the quickest I ever saw him back down on anything by miles.

      The thing is, they already know they are in the wrong and are sticking their neck out by asking you to do it. It would take a real psychopath to attempt to force you into it after you refuse. Normal people, even nightmare bosses, are going to back down immediately.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  2. Ask Slashdot: How do I act on principle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Slashdot, I have a set of principles that I adhere to rigorously. Today, I have been presented with something that violates my principles. What should I do?

    Answer, you have a choice: Grow some balls or a spine. Really, either will do.

  3. Blow the whistle or quit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The minute you install the pirated software, you have no moral leg to stand on. You either stick to your guns or you leave. The "I did it because it was my job to do it" defense has been tried (literally) and failed.

    1. Re:Blow the whistle or quit by iminplaya · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Befehl ist Befehl" or "only following orders"

      I don't speak any German, but doesn't that literally mean "Orders are orders"? Anyway, I don't believe in turning people in for property crimes given their vengeful nature on both sides of the law, and I wouldn't want to put myself in the line of fire, having to testify, have my personal things torn up, possibly losing my own computer at home even, for "discovery", etc. And even more so, I don't want to be labeled as a snitch. I would be completely untrustworthy in the future, and rightfully so. Don't do anything that can be traced back to you. Look for another job, and maybe don't use that particular employer as a reference. They might get caught, and something could lead back to you, even if they are outright lies. Our system has turned honesty into a liability. When dealing with the authorities, always do so anonymously.

      --
      What?
  4. Professional by 26199 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any actual profession... and as much as IT/programming may claim to be one, it isn't really one yet... has a code of conduct that says quite clearly what you need to do. You can't be a professional and knowingly support illegal activity.

  5. Understand your situation. by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you don't get it in writing, should anything happen and the company be audited ... YOU will be the one blamed and fired.

    Everyone else will swear that YOU were the loose cannon. That they would NEVER violate a copyright. That they are 100% honest.

    Really. They're already asking you to violate your ethics / principles. Why would you believe that they wouldn't lie about who's idea it was?

  6. You do know you'll be the fall guy, right? by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You should go into this knowing that, if you get caught, everyone will point the finger squarely at you. That same boss who is ordering you to do this will deny that he knew anything about it and say that you did it on your own. As long as you're willing to deal with the legal and financial fallout that could hit you personally, then go for it.

    Personally, there is *NO WAY IN HELL* I would do it. Nor would I work for a company that was irresponsible enough to even ASK me to. Sounds like you've picked a pretty shady and unstable company to work for. If I were you, I would stall on the installation ("We're having some technical issues with some of the machines, sir") and start looking for a new job. DO NOT install it if you plan on doing this (they would still blame you after-the-fact).

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  7. I've been down this road by Xest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been in a similar situation, only for us it was the case where someone wanted to run a course in our IT Suite. They needed specific software for the course and told me this 2 days before the course was due to run, they told me they'd ordered the licenses and were on the way but might not make it until after the course was due to run.

    Knowing what these people are like, and having little confidence in their ordering of the licenses I put my foot down and refused to install it until the licenses arrived, I made the point that if this caused a problem for their course that they should perhaps consider not leaving things until the last minute in future. My line manager backed me up in my stance however my boss over-ruled both of us and told us to install it, standing my ground I defied him and refused to do so. Eventually my boss installed the software himself, so the course ran and so forth but at least I hadn't been the one to break the law, the best part? Those licenses never arrived, the whole thing was completely illegal, frankly I fail to believe the licenses were ever really ordered.

    You shouldn't worry about losing your job by refusing to do this, they'll most likely back down on any threat to sack you. If they do however follow through then you're looking at an extremely strong court case involving a massive payout for yourself. If you get sacked and know they have gone ahead installing illegal copies, your first stop should be to report them to whatever country deals with anti-piracy raids, when you report it ask that any evidence of infringement they find be made available to your court case, this will make your case pretty much un-loseable. Just bear in mind that you absolutely do not have to do this, you're entirely in the right by refusing to do so and the law will recognise that.

    One other thing to note is that if you do follow through, obey your orders and install the software - what happens if someone else reports your company? Can you really be sure they'll take the blame? What are you going to do if they say they had no knowledge of pirate software on your systems and hence the blame gets shifted entirely on you.

    I think most people pirate at least some software and home, and so some may say it's hypocritical to say the things I've said here knowing that, but there's a distinction to be made between what you do at home and being professional at work. No one has to know what you get upto at home, and so the risk is more controlled, however at work any number of your users could cash in on that $1000 software piracy report reward or whatever. Furthermore, I'd imagine the penalties for what would probably be commercial copyright infringement would be much more harsh than for home copying also.

  8. Just don't do it by Goose42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The answer is simple, just don't do it. Just do your other jobs instead of following your boss' order to break the law. If he fires you, sue. You'll win multiple years of lost salary easily when the reason you were fired is that you were ordered to commit illegal acts and wouldn't. In the end, it'll look good on the resume for your next job, because future employers will know that you'll stand your ground for the things that are right.

    Honestly, I'm speaking from a little bit of experience here, so keep a stiff upper lip and don't give in to your boss.

  9. Stick to your guns and quit. by twitter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    how are they going to behave should this come to the attention of FAST (or other enforcement body)?

    Why bother to find out?

    Tell them that you are going to Install Open Office or quit. It's not that what they have asked is morally wrong, it's that it exposes YOU to danger for their benefit. Oh yeah, it's also stupid because better software exists and they have "standardized" on the worst. You offered your advice and they discarded it, so it's time to go unless you want to be an bag man.

    By the way, the anonymous reader has already reported them. ISPs already co-operate with media companies and monitors traffic. The chances are they have monitored the post. But it won't matter because someone there will fink sooner or later.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by dougmc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh yeah, it's also stupid because better software exists and they have "standardized" on the worst.
      You aren't saying that OpenOffice is better than MS Office, are you? It's cheaper, it runs on more platforms (which is why I use it on my Linux box for the very few cases where I need Office-type software), but other than that, it's most certainly NOT better.


      I love to bash Microsoft as much as the next guy, probably more in fact, but when I'm looking for examples of great free software, OpenOffice usually isn't one of my first choices. It's slow, buggy and just as bloated as Office is -- if not more so. (AbiWord is better, but still not perfect ...)

    2. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by avronius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One e-mail message will do the job nicely.

      To: [e-mail address of manager]
      Bcc: [your personal e-mail address]
      Subject: [Product] installations and license limitations
      Body:
      [name of manager],

      I have reviewed our records and determined that we have x licenses for [product]. There are users that require this product, yet do not currently have it installed, and there are insufficient licenses to meet their needs. Unfortunately, we are not able proceed with installing more copies of this software until new licenses are purchased.

      I am attaching the name of our local [product] vendor, as well as his/her direct number, so that you can obtain additional licensing. When the new licenses arrive, we will happy to proceed with the new installations.

      Alternatively, we would be happy to install an available opensource alternative. There are a handful of products that might be more suitable in this environment, and we are willing to work with the users to ensure the right products for them.

      We are not willing to put this company at risk of litigation or prosecution for software misuse.

      Sincerely,

      [You]

    3. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The guy's solution is one that does not expose them (or him) to any potential licensing violations, and consequently any lawsuits. Whether or not OpenOffice, or any open source solution, is better, equal or worse is irrelevant. He's offering them a solution that will offer the shallowest learning curve, will likely do most (if not all) of what they want, is cheap (as in free) and is completely legal and above board.

      I would never in a million years expose myself to potential litigation over something like this without a notarized document from my manager protecting me from all blame, and from losing my job if someone comes a'knockin' to check up on licensing violations. Since I doubt anyone's manager has the power to make that deal (unless the manager is an owner), it's going to hit the legal department, and the legal department will probably have a fit, and the whole plan will fall in its ass in a hurry.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that when it gets to court, you have at least some chance of your employer pointing the finger at you and saying "He installed these without our authorization", and suddenly it's you on the hot seat.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by bob_herrick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, we are not able proceed with installing more copies of this software until new licenses are purchased. [emphasis added] It's not that it is unfortunate, it's that it would be illegal. It's not that you are incapable of doing an installation, it's that to do so would break the law. I would rewrite this sentence to reflect the situation, rather than leaving room for 'misinterpretation.' Something like the following is what I have in mind.

      Under the terms of our license with [whomever], it is not legal for us to install more copies unless we purchase additional licenses.
      This serves to put the decision maker on clear notice, and forms the basis for you legitimate refusal if it comes to that.

      Either way this comes out, update your CV and get it launched.
    6. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by Arterion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I just have to wonder if you've ever went to bed hungry.

      Ethics is further down the list of things to be true to than survival. Especially since we're talking about something as abstract as violating a copyright. No babies are being eaten, and no Nazis are riding dinosaurs. Choosing to to honor IP laws that are themselves ethically questionable over one's own survival is not something I expect anyone to do, regardless of the law. Maybe he has kids to feed. Maybe he lives paycheck to paycheck. There are a lot of reasons he might not be able to just quit.

      I think anyone who's ever gone to bed hungry would totally appreciate that.

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    7. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by MayorDefacto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I sent such an email. Was then called into the managers office and told in no uncertain terms that if I sent an email like that again I'd be kicked out of the building. They don't like that stuff because it's tracable.

      Seriously, I know you value your paycheck, but LEAVE. It sounds like your company has serious ethical deficiencies that border on criminality. Based on the fact that they're asking you to do something illegal and refuse to listen to the voice of reason-- especially in light of the fact that they told you you'd be out on your ass for bringing this up in a traceable forum-- you really need to remove yourself from such a toxic work environment. The stress of having to find another job pales in comparison to the stress of being the fall guy when their scheme is discovered.

      Do what's best for YOU and get out!

    8. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by terjeber · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even better, cc your vendor and include a line like "I've included John from {insert vendor's name} whom you can contact to purchase additional licenses

      Never, never, never. Don't do this. Bad idea. CC the HR person only. Keep it internal. Don't snitch like this, it is not your business to do that, and it can (rightfully so) make you entirely unemployable. Go the HR way and sue their asses if they fire you.

    9. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by terjeber · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ethics is further down the list of things to be true to than survival. Especially since we're talking about something as abstract as violating a copyright.

      If you break the law, you break the law, and you take responsibility. It doesn't matter if someone "ordered" you to break the law. You see, you can't be ordered by anyone to break the law no matter what, if they did your responsibility was to completely ignore them.

      The one thing to remember is that the following is illegal for a company (1) to order an employee to break the law and (2) to fire someone for refusing to break the law. A company will normally get punished hard for firing someone for refusing to break the law.

      If the original poster sticks to his guns and still experiences significant pressure over this issue after refusing, he should seek proper legal counsel. If he is fired and he lives in the US, he could end up with a decent settlement.

  10. BSA by eric76 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You might point out to them that all it takes is one disgruntled employee or ex-employee to make a complaint to the BSA (Business Software Alliance).

    There is a bright spot, however. After they pay a few hundred thousand dollars to the BSA, they may be more willing to switch completely to open source software.

  11. Re:Why do you want to keep the job so badly? by stinerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Probably because the guy needs to eat.

    Not all of us live in a perfect fantasy land where we can just quit jobs that offend our ethics. The guy probably has a family to support. Having to take care of other people lessens your ability to stand on principle.

  12. oh please by bwy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I love the fact that pretty much all the responses to this topic say "quit!"

    It is amazing how easy it is to tell someone else to quit their job. The majority of people telling this guy to quit have probably installed lots of pirated software in the past, and they probably have music that they didn't buy. Why should you be so offended when your manager asks you to do something that you've already done in your personal life many times?

    It is kind of like if you are a mass murderer and go to prison, and your cell mate asks you to kill someone in a cell down the hall. Shouldn't be that offended that he asked, should you?

    Anyway, what this company is asking him to do is wrong. No doubt. But I love the fact that everyone here is so incredibly offended and now has all these morales that they didn't have last week when they were posting bits about how they trade music files without guilt because even though the law says it is illegal, they don't recognize the law as being valid.

    Well, this is SLASHDOT, after all.

  13. Re:email won't save the job. by bob_herrick · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Impractical advice, sorry to say. Sounds like fun, but inivites heavy duty retaliation, and undermines the possiblity of support from above. The upper level CC's will be seen by both your boss and the folks above him/her as a transparent play. The CC will make it look like your mission is to make your boss look bad, which may be true, but it is not the perception you wish to leave. A BCC to self is fine. If you get pushback from the boss, CC'ing his boss on your reply is fine, even with the e-mail chain - but round one CC chain you suggest is going to convert an outcome from which it is possible to emerge with a victory to a sure loss.

  14. Re:email won't save the job. by pete6677 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're not doing this to keep your career within the company, you're doing it to buy some time while you search for a job with an ethical firm. Of course an unethical boss will try to get you fired for blowing the whistle. The email is just to cover your ass and possibly have grounds for a wrongful termination suit. Career potential in a company like this is zero unless you can actively aid and abet wrongdoing.

  15. Looks Like You Dont Work in Corp America by SRA8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been in a similar situation. I didnt make the email that formal, but basically wrote "Per out conversation, I will make X copies of WorldScope, based on your understanding that so many floating licenses are available." My boss wrote back "do not install." Then came by my desk and verbally said to install. THEN what do you do?