Massachusetts Joins the Real ID Fight

In the battle against big government and the infamous Real ID, Massachusetts has hopped on board. In the words of State Senator Richard T. Moore, D-Uxbridge, "Historically, Americans have resisted the idea, which totalitarian governments have tended to do, of having a national ID. That's the broad philosophical issue. I don't think it's a good move and I would be reluctant to see why we are going to that step." And State Attorney General Martha Coakley thinks "it's a bad idea." Should be interesting to see how it gets voted.

Comments

Not quite....

[A Name Similar to Di]

FTA:

The Real ID Act, passed by Congress in 2005 and signed by President Bush, requires all U.S. residents without a passport to obtain a new state-issued type of driver's license or ID card in order to board commercial airplanes, enter federal buildings, get Social Security benefits or get into other federal government programs, starting next May.

As I read that, I can freely walk down the street without carrying an ID and not fear being detained. You may argue that it may grow into something more in the future, but at present, it is *not* a license to exist. Just thought I'd clarify that as I feel it's an important distinction.

Please also note, I'm not *for* the ID, but I'd like to try and blame the bill for what it actually does rather than what it doesn't do.

Re:Not quite....

[jcr]

I can freely walk down the street without carrying an ID and not fear being detained.

Legally, that's correct, and you can thank Edward Lawson for fighting all the way to the supreme court to establish the precedent. Lawson was illegally arrested for declining to show his ID when a police officer decided that he was the wrong color for the neighborhood he was walking through.

-jcr

Re:Not quite....

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to disagree with you, but this is NOT true any more :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judic ial_District_Court_of_Nevada

Like 20 other states, Nevada has a "stop and identify" law. The law allows a peace officer to detain any person he encounters "under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime," or simply to "ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his presence abroad." In turn, the law requires the person detained to identify himself, but does not compel the person to answer any other questions put to him by the officer.

One afternoon the sherriff's department in Humboldt County, Nevada received a report of an assault. The circumstances were reportedly that a man had assaulted a woman in a red and silver GMC truck on Grass Valley Road. The deputy that responded found the truck parked on the side of the road. A man was standing beside the truck, and a young woman was inside it. Skid marks in the gravel behind the truck suggested that the truck had come to a sudden stop.

The deputy explained to the man that he was investigating a report of a fight, and asked the man if he had any identification on him. The man refused to produce any identification, and when the deputy pressed him for his identification, he became agitated and insisted he had done nothing wrong. The deputy repeated that he was investigating a report of a fight, and the man persisted in his refusal to identify himself to the deputy. After asking the man to identify himself 11 different times, the deputy arrested the man.

That man was Larry Dudley Hiibel, the petitioner in this case. Hiibel was charged with violating Nevada's stop and identify law and with obstructing the deputy's investigation. In the Justice Court for Union Township, Nevada, Hiibel was convicted of these charges and fined $250. He appealed to the Sixth Judicial District Court, which affirmed the conviction. He then appealed to the Nevada Supreme Court, arguing that the requirement that he identify himself to any police officer upon request violated the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures and the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination. The Nevada Supreme Court rejected these arguments, and Hiibel asked the U.S. Supreme Court to hear the case.

Ron Paul (R-TX) rejects the Real ID!

[SonicSpike]

Libertarian leaning US Congressman Ron Paul who finished first in the MSNBC poll following the GOP primary debate last week absolutely opposses a national ID. 6:33 into this clip from the debate shows what he said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peBGJwE9NXo

Last Day to STOP REAL ID

[groschke]

I'm a lawyer at the Electronic Privacy Information Center. There are just about 24 hours left for the public to submit comments against REAL ID. A broad coalition is urging individuals to speak up. They have links to portals that accept comments online, and sample comments like:

"The plan will create a massive national identification system without adequate privacy and security safeguards. It will also make it more difficult for people to get driver's licenses. And it will make it too easy for identity thieves, stalkers, and corrupt government officials to get access to such personal information as a home address, age, and Social Security number."

Slashdotters should offer their perspective. REAL ID was approved without Congressional hearings, and this is the last 24 hours for the public to comment on this proposal!

I'm going to code me a mini-van!

[khasim]

They forbade the trading of money for tips and information to those who were significant parts of criminal enterprises, so they couldn't give, say, $50,000 for information on where drug lords were hiding out or $10,000 for a tip on where some shoulder-fired SAMs might be delivered next week if the person telling you might be a drug trafficker or be involved in some jihad-related mayhem himself.

Yep. When Mafia family A wants to take over some territory from Mafia family B, just call the Feds. They'll do the work for you.

If you're a little strapped for cash, just offer to sell that old weapons cache for cash!

You see, the problem is the corruption of the law enforcement agencies. No matter how clean they are to begin with, once they start swapping favours and cash with the bad guys, they become corrupt.

The final result is cops being paid as hit men. And we've seen that.

Re:Passport?

[Kadin2048]

Why not just issue everyone passports? What benefit would a new card/system have?

Because people might realize how creepy and fascist the government has become, when they need an actual "internal passport" to travel within their own country, like the Soviet Union, China, or North Korea.

But you're right in thinking that there's no difference; it's effectively the same thing. It's just that this way, it sounds nicer.

Re:Sadly...

[packeteer]

Clinton also signed NAFTA and all kinds of other nasts things into place. Just becuase someone dislikes Bush doesn't mean they like Clinton. I think the neo-cons realize that Bush is indefensible so they feel they can only attack Clinton who they assume is supported by anyone who disagrees with Bush.

Your point is valid though. It is likely that all presidents are going to want a national ID. Power corrupts and all of the recent presidents have wanted to expand their power.

Real ID is scary for the TRANSGENDERED

[Anonymous Coward]

...wanting to change their gender. Of course, none of you care about the rights of the minority.

From another source:

It could make it almost or totally impossible for transgender people
in some or all states to obtain accurate driver's licenses, causing
extreme difficulties for trans people to participate in everyday
aspects of society such as driving, traveling on airplanes,
purchasing alcohol or opening bank accounts.

It will expose transgender people to routine discrimination
everywhere IDs are inspected, including in employment, in schools,
purchasing goods or otherwise conducting business, at any security
check-in, etc.

It would likely expose transgender people's personal medical
information to databases accessible by all local state and federal
law enforcement officers and others.

Because it would require every driver in the United States to renew
their driver's license from scratch with proof of birth, residence
and citizenship, those trans people who have acquired gender changes
on licenses without proof of genital surgery could lose their
accurate ID.

Submit comments, annoy a bureaucrat.

[Anonymous Coward]

The power of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), along with other federal government agencies, to reach into the everyday lives of people living in this country will be unprecedented. This is the same federal agency that had responsibility for helping people following hurricane Katrina, and proved itself not to be ready for the challenge. Creating a national identification system is a huge, complex project and there no agency in the Federal government that has proven that it could manage a project of this magnitude.

Facts: You will make more than one trip to the motor vehicle office to apply for your REAL ID national identification card; the government has estimated that the scheme will cost taxpayers $21 billion; REAL ID requires documentation that most people will have difficulty finding; and the cost of driver's licenses and state ID cards will skyrocket. We do know that the federal government is considering expanding the REAL ID card to everyday use.

The new requirements dictate state collection of personal data and documents without setting adequate security standards for the card, state motor vehicle facilities, or state motor vehicle databases. The government will create a national identification database by linking the databases of all 50 states and the data of 245 million state license and identification cardholders. REAL ID also increases the risk of counterfeiting and identity theft by creating one unifying ID card (with one design) to forge and one database full of sensitive personal information, with many entry points across the nation, to attack.

Add all of this to the fact that when Congress created the Department of Homeland Security, it made clear in the enabling legislation that the agency could not create a national ID system. In September 2004, then-DHS Secretary Tom Ridge reiterated, "[t]he legislation that created the Department of Homeland Security was very specific on the question of a national ID card. They said there will be no national ID card."

DHS is accepting public comments on REAL ID until tomorrow, May 8, at 5pm EST. A broad coalition of over 55 groups has launched a campaign to encourage the public to submit comments rejecting the REAL ID program. Check out http://www.privacycoalition.org/stoprealid/ for information on how you can submit comments.

Re:Passport?

[PMuse]

You're not supposed (at least according to that pesky Constitution) to be required to show ID everywhere you go within the US. But, that has largely been trampled upon since 9/11.

The right to remain anonymous died in 2004 in the Supreme Court case, Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada. All we're haggling about now is what kind of ID they can force us to show.

national id

[falconwolf]

the id is useful for delivering services to citizens...
such as national health insurance...

Forget that! I don't want any national healthcare! All that leads to is rationing. I'm all for affordable health insurance for everyone but I oppose mandated nation healthcare run by the government.

at least consolidating one's health records so that you never have to fill out the same idiotic form every time you visit a new doctor

I don't want anyone to be able to see my medical records unless I authorize it. When I go see a new doc I'll bring my medical records from the last doc I saw.

It will also be important if you end up unconscious in the ER and are allergic to the drug they think they need to give you immediately.

There are alert bracelets and Medi Alerts people can get identifying allergies or other medical conditions for healthcare personel.

I believe it is more important to fight for legislation that demands that information is used properly for the right reasons and that all use of personal information be audited and available for individuals on demand.

Once collected, the info will be ABUSED!!!

Falcon