Europe's Galileo Program In Serious Trouble

elrous0 writes "Various news outlets are reporting that Europe's Galileo program is facing a serious financial and technical crisis and may be permanently stalled. The European program, designed to be a superior answer to the US's GPS — and, more critically, not controlled by the US — has faced numerous hurdles since its inception. To date the Galileo program has succeeded in launching only one of its 30 planned satellites and has been beset by delays and cost overruns. Apparently, squabbling between the eight companies in the consortium behind the project is responsible for many of the problems. The project is now threatened with an EU takeover. But some doubt that even an infusion of EU capital can save the flagging program."

Comments

I'm not surprised...

[jawtheshark]

I'm a EU citizen, and I applauded the Galileo program. Especially, because at least we would gain a bit independence to the US. (I was for a European Army too, provided that all national armied be disbanded... That idea was highly critisized by the US too). Anyway, this is typical EU technology stuff. Good idea in the beginning, bureaucracy kicks in, budgets get busted, scientists get frustrated and leave for the greener pastures in the US (or elsewhere), etc... etc... etc...

Eurofighter... same kind of mess. The only thing the EU is good at is creating papers and using my tax money. Okay, that and technically they are responsible for keeping peace (within EU members states) for over 50 years. A fucking long time in Europes history.... Well, it's a high price for peace, but it's the only reason I'm not against the EU.

Re:I'm not surprised...

[DJCacophony]

Yeah, because we all know that no European nations have ever had any civil wars, or invaded other countries for their benefit. Ever.

Re:I'm not surprised...

[Colin Smith]

Huh? The EU started out as, and effectively remains, an economic organization. How did they "keep the peace". What on earth do you think wars are about? They're about getting hold of resources that other countries hold. The EEC created a large free trade area which allows the money and resources to flow freely. There has been no need for war.

Sooner or later, European countries will have to start footing their defense bill. Actually no, they won't.

They'll be able to do what the US is doing right now, as the Euro replaces the US Dollar as the world reserve currency they'll be able to print Euros without producing inflation within the EU. The inflation will be externalised. Essentially, the rest of the world will finance the EU defence budget.

Europe's been at peace for "a fucking long time", but 50 years isn't enouigh to change huma nature, and the nature of humans is to make war. But of course, the war will be against whoever holds the resources which are needed within the EU. Like the massive oil fields in Saudi and Iraq...

Re:I'm not surprised...

[wfberg]

Probably not a prime purpose, though.

The preambles of the Treaty of Paris:

CONSIDERING that world peace may be safeguarded only by creative efforts equal to the dangers which menace it;

CONVINCED that the contribution which an organized and vital Europe can bring to civilization is indispensable to the maintenance of peaceful relations;

CONSCIOUS of the fact that Europe can be built only by concrete actions which create a real solidarity and by the establishment of common bases for economic development;

DESIROUS of assisting through the expansion of their basic production in raising the standard of living and in furthering the works of peace;

RESOLVED to substitute for historic rivalries a fusion of their essential interests; to establish, by creating an economic community, the foundation of a broad and independent community among peoples long divided by bloody conflicts; and to lay the bases of institutions capable of giving direction to their future common destiny;

HAVE DECIDED to create a European Coal and Steel Community[..]

Yeah, probably just a footnote in history.

Re:I'm not surprised...

[Applekid]

I really don't know why the above was marked troll. And I walk in the minefield by trying to answer even in a neutral manner. So be it.

(Disclaimer: I am a US Citizen)

There's a lot of resentment over the power the US has held over the heads of other nations in the world. Gunboat negotiations and all.

US corporations spread globalism with an emphasis on profits over the benefit of humanity. The government repeatedly chooses not to reign them in because the politicians are lobbied by money instead of doing what's right for the nation.

Unfair trade agreements, a favor of capitalism over socialism, and other inequities just helps keep people angry. We try to police the world and are bad neighbors to the world community at the same time.

That said, (minefield time) I do agree that there's far more anti-American feelings than warranted. If Portugal (just for a random example) found itself in our position it would do the exact same thing. It's a Game Theory thing. A lot of old world countries did all sorts of horrible things within their spheres of influence. It just so happens that the rise of US power coincided with the time when one nation COULD have global reach.

But...
Until we get voter turnout rates that aren't pathetic compared to American Idol,
Until we have a culture that honors education instead of 50 Cent,
Until we can be colorblind in all racist matters,
Until we can humble ourselves as a member of the world instead of masters of it
We will continue to be hated.

That's ok, I was unpopular in high school, too. ;)

Re:I'm not surprised...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because we all know that no European nations have ever had any civil wars, or invaded other countries for their benefit. Ever. Most of them don't pretend to be innocent of any of these charges nowadays. European history is full of civil wars, predatory wars of conquest, ethnic cleansing and the associated atrocities and denying that history would be pretty pointless. It usually takes a large group of especially clueless morons such as the Nazis, Fascists or Balkan ultra nationalists to achieve a critical mass of stupidity that is great enough to generate a wave of such denial. The USA just as prone to deluding it self that every war it starts for it's own selfish ends is really a humanitarian police actions aimed at spreading democracy and preventing the proliferation of (imaginary) weapons of mass destruction.

Re:I'm not surprised...

[germanbirdman]

I also like the fact that I can work in every other European country. In fact if you have lived in another European country for more than a certain amount of time (2 years?) You can also vote in that country in many places now - not all elections yet, but we're moving in that direction.

Apart from the same money, Europeans also now share the same driving license.

Regarding commonality: There's more than the Euro, but not much: we now also have the same driving license. But I can't really think of much else at the moment...

The problem with democracy in Europe is that people use the EU elections to voice their frustrations and vote all the radical parties to show their dissatisfaction with the currently ruling administration in their own member state because the parliament doesn't have much power anyway.. So all kinds of really radical parties get voted in which people would never dream of voting into their own parliaments.

People actually say that the EU parliament has a much greater voice now than it did a decade ago - I also agree with other postings that the only way to make it more democratic is to give it enough powers so that people actually start caring. Right now, people use the EU elections for nothing but to voice their frustrations at their own goverment. This includes I believe even the referendums for the constitution: Their government is for it? People vote against - their government is against it? The people would have voted for it.

I believe that once the economic growth has gone on for a while and people are not fearing losing their jobs anymore as was the case in most countries that voted against the election, maybe we have a chance to get the constitution through. Without it, the EU will become a group of states that cannot do anything because all decisions have to be unanimous.

I still think of myself as a European though rather than a German - that being mainly because I grew up in the UK, lived in Germany for most of my life, spent quite some years in the USA where I really saw that there was a difference between European (not just English/German) mentality. In my work, half of the people I work with in the office are Dutch/other half is German.

People in Europe are brought up to be a lot more critical about their government, in the US for quite some time after 9/11 it was unheard of to criticize the president - US news just wasn't worth watching because it was all so one sided. Thankfully that has gotten a lot better again (I left the US two months ago). In the US, the goverment says something, the people believe it with almost no questions asked. Not so here.
What's not so good here is that people here rely too much on the government - in the US people rely more on themselves. If you're out of a job or are earning too little money, Americans get another job - here in Europe people ask for unemployment pay.
US and gun laws - after the shootings at that school people saying that if everybody had a gun, it would not have been as bad... No thanks... But I have to admit US gun laws are similar to having a law to impose a speed limit on the Autobahn in Germany- no government would ever be elected or reelected if they did that. It is just something cultural.
In the US it seems that the government wants to only have a few educated people and a lot of not so educated people - Universities there are just so prohibitively expensive. This is one of the main reasons I came back actually because my gf wants to study. 500 Euros a semester, that's a joke comparing it to US prices.
Then, we have more taxes here, but you get a lot for them - you get good roads (I am always amazed when I come from the US how good they are here), you get the university education.

Getting back to the Galileo program - there needs to be an EU government which have something to say. And they should press through the Galileo system. It is vital. Right now, I fear that it is not strong enough yet and it will stay at the one 1 satellite. I hope I am wrong.

Well, just use GLONASS

[Cyberax]

Well, you can always use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

Oh wait...

Re:Sounds Familiar

[rlp]

For those not old enough to remember, it still sounds very familiar.

Re:Piggyback US

[Dogtanian]

The US GPS system is available worldwide, and with the increased amount of definition now I wonder why they want to invest so much money creating their own. Perhaps a joint US / Europe project to utilize one system, would be cost efficient. Because the US system is under the control of the US. In reality, "friendship" between countries does not exist; countries have allies, not friends.

Beneath the PR gloss the US government has always acted in its own interest to a large extent (don't take that as a criticism, any government in its position would the same). However, in recent years this has become significantly more pronounced with the hawkish arrogance of Bush and co. In particular, Tony Blair's conceit that he has any real influence over the Bush administration is laughable, and has been for some time now. Bush will only do what Blair wants if he was going to do it anyway; out of the PR highlight, U.S. government staff have admitted as much.

I'm sure you'll excuse me if I say that I don't trust the Bush-led government one fucking bit. When push came to shove, if they were forced to choose, they'd act in their own self-interest. Even if the US Democrats won the next election, there's no guarantee that they'd be significantly better, or how long it would be before the Bush-types regain power.

As I said, I personally think it's undesirable to rely on the US-controlled system. You can take this as an anti-U.S. rant or not; what it comes down to IMHO is that we need a system under our own control, not something that can be yanked from under our feet if it proves inconvenient to our allies.

Oh, don't be dense

[Colin Smith]

This is what happens when you dive into a program like this motivated by little more than spite. Frankly I expected better from someone with a 4 digit ID.

Anyway, it has fuck all to do with spite and everything to do with military independence. It's geopolitics. Whether you like it or not, the EU is gradually unifying into what will become a direct competitor to the US for world resources. Where there are trade rivalries today we will have wars tomorrow, and to conduct a war against a country who controls vital information systems like GPS would be stupidest folly.

Oh, you don't think the EU would ever go to war against the US? Just wait till the oil and water start running out.

Why there's nobody fighting:

[Kadin2048]

Well, actually, I think the EU is really just the Germans and the French finally figuring out how to do jointly what they've been trying unsuccessfully to do independently for the last 300-odd years -- conquer the rest of Europe.

Seriously: they have a waiting list to get in. How slick is that? You've got countries falling over themselves, remaking themselves in your image, in order to be part of your empire. Not too shabby.

Re:Why there's nobody fighting:

[ThousandStars]

Well, actually, I think the EU is really just the Germans and the French finally figuring out how to do jointly what they've been trying unsuccessfully to do independently for the last 300-odd years -- conquer the rest of Europe.

Are Germany and France conquering the rest of Europe, or is the rest of Europe conquering Germany and France? I ask because I read -- chiefly in The Economist and The New York Times, granted -- about the angst in both countries over the rising tide of English as a language and the difficulty both have had with economic growth over the last 20 years. The language aspect is particularly important: the best way to kill or submerge a culture is to destroy its language. Look at what the English did to the Welsh, Scottish, and Irish; to most of the world, people who are from all four geographic region would seem one and the same. Not many people know Welsh, and few writers work with it any longer. The same happened to American Indian cultures.

It seems like the rest of Europe is changing the cultures of those two countries moreso than the other way around.

Re:Read about the founding of the EU

[NeutronCowboy]

"If you've been to Europe recently and noticed how citizens see themselves as European first and nationals second, you will see they've done very well on their goals"

What the hell are you smoking??? Go to France, and be astounded at the Frenchness of the French. Go to Germany, and be astounded at their Germanness. Go to Sweden.... you get the point. Not only are all the countries resolutely individual, they are proud to be something specific. Finally, a couple of countries voted against the EU constitution, some never really joined (they are only part of the EU market), and you'll realize that Europe is a long way from become a nation.

Whoever modded this informative hasn't been to Europe.