Slashdot Mirror


Privatization Limiting Access To Information

Knutsi sends us to the Federation of American Scientists' blog Secrecy News for a post on how privatization can affect access to research material. The blog tells how a Harvard researcher on the history of nuclear secrecy was denied access that would have been granted in the past. Some followup is in the comments to this reposting of the FAS story. "Los Alamos National Laboratory will no longer permit historians and other researchers to have access to its archival records because Los Alamos National Security (LANS), the private contractor that now operates the Lab, says it has 'no policy in place' that would allow such access."

23 of 163 comments (clear)

  1. If research is or was by rockclimber · · Score: 5, Insightful

    funded by public money, there should always be public access.

    1. Re:If research is or was by Holmwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is public access, via the Freedom of Information Act. The problem is, that's too slow and cumbersome for most researchers. From the post there,

      The relevant DOE procurement clause is DEAR 970.5204-3 "Access to and ownership of records" and it is in the LANS contract by reference in I-78.

      ...

      It DOES NOT require that the general public have access to either Government-owned or Contractor-Owned records in the possession of the contractor.

      It's not entirely clear whether this is the contractor doing this on its own initiative, or, more likely, the contractor legitimately concerned about being accused by the government of giving someone improper access. So, LANS seems to be playing it safe by directing everyone to FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) which is of course all but useless for students and many archival researchers.

      A very unfortunate state of affairs, but I'm not certain privatization is exactly what's to blame.

    2. Re:If research is or was by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It does seem like a no-brainer. However, let's look at it from another, purely hypothetical, angle.

      Let's say you are having a wedding. You want photos of that wedding. You can take them yourself, or pay someone to take them. If you pay someone, only part of that payment covers the total cost. The photographer makes his money back by selling the photos of your event.

      Now, you *can* pay someone enough and they will just download the RAW images and burn them to a DVD for you. But it's very expensive.

      So, the Government wants to research fusion. They don't want to hire all the scientists and fund the entire project. They just want to give someone $1b and reap the rewards. The problem is that it costs a company $2b to get a working product.

      If the taxpayers want it, they can purchase it outright. They should have that option. But it'll cost a lot more than an additional $1b. The company took the risk. If they dumped $4b and got nothing, they'd eat it. If they succeed, they should benefit.

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    3. Re:If research is or was by Vicissidude · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not entirely clear whether this is the contractor doing this on its own initiative, or, more likely, the contractor legitimately concerned about being accused by the government of giving someone improper access. So, LANS seems to be playing it safe by directing everyone to FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) which is of course all but useless for students and many archival researchers.

      The researchers had access before the privatization of the lab. This whole article is the result of the privatization stopping the flow of information, which had normally been filled without FOIA requests up until this time. Presumably, the government would not care since they previously released this information when they ran this lab. This would not be a big deal otherwise.

      A very unfortunate state of affairs, but I'm not certain privatization is exactly what's to blame.

      Interesting that people will not hesitate to call government bureaucracy for what it is. But, when the same thing happens in the private sector, people excuse the behavior.

      This is corporate bureaucracy.

      Libertarians like to point out all the positives of privatization without going into the negatives. Here is one glowing example. The bureaucracy is now worse under corporate operation because the private businesses don't have to follow the same laws as the government. More than likely, we're also paying more money as well. At least government limits the amount that executives are compensated.

    4. Re:If research is or was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So, the Government wants to research fusion.

      If the taxpayers want it, they can purchase it outright.

      "The government" and "the taxpayers" are the same people. The problem here is that it's not being treated that way.

  2. If it weren't privatized... by mobby_6kl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If it weren't privatized, they'd just claim the information is a matter of national security and still refuse to release it.

  3. This was to be expected. by Wizard052 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now it's all about policy and bottom line. That's privatisation for you. It works wonders with inefficient utilities and such but this? By placing such restrictions, they are nipping the very root from which such institutions begin.

  4. Open Source by hoojus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a researcher in trying to integrate knowledge I find this more and more dissapointing. Where the research community is advocating a share model, companies like this come along and remove information from the public domain.
    This introduces difficulty as a researcher as this is now a void over which we need jump in order to create new knowledge. As more and more companies become contractors for the government it will ensure that not only researchers but the public will have to pay for information which may be necessary for the growth and understanding of the community as a whole.
    It is time for the government to realise that the public should come first and ensure that these types of restrictions do not occur in the future and if possible to revoke those that have already occured.

  5. Re:In ... by Xiph · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Ack, i lowered myself into groupthink mode, and forgot to post as AC.
    oh well, karmawhoring is for gutless punks anyway.

    --
    Blah blah sig blah blah blah irony blah blah
  6. Mini Dark Age by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a researcher, I can tell you flat out that the privatisation of information is putting up serious barrier to the work I do. Aside from prohibitively high prices on journal papers, etc, many old papers, experiments and historical documents are under lock and key, with the private companies that hold onto them totally unwilling to go to the (minor) expense of open up their archives. Such papers have effectively dropped off the face of the earth, and when those companies go under or dissolve or simply move headquarters, it's likely that the papers will in truth become lost forever.

    Try to find scientific articles or papers before about 1960. It's a nightmare. Aside from paying about $50-60 if you do find anything, finding it will be a challenge. Go back to the 50's and you're in trouble. The 40's is pretty bleak. You can find more papers on ancient Egypt than you can from the 1930's.

    It's possible that you can find old articles in Libraries, if you're willing to try about a dozen libraries. But many libraries are "downsizing" their paper collections(for financial reasons brought on by high journal prices). You can try an inter library loan but there are incredibly stringent copyright signoffs for every single item.

    Books are not so bad. Libraries usually have good collections, and book publishers don't seem to be as rabidly concerned with copyright as journal publishers. If the material you want is in a book, you're OK. The book can have been published in 1700 and you'll still be able to find a copy relatively easily, and cheaply. Paper's from the 1700's, except seminal ones, probably have all been lost by now.

    Private companies cannot be trusted to archive material. I really cannot put it plainer than that. If we place our scientific data, history and writings in the hands of private industry future generations will speak of a "Dark Age" in the 20th century, where apparently a lot was accomplished, but there will simply be no record of it. Our books aren't getting burned, they're getting privatised, a much surer method of destruction.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
    1. Re:Mini Dark Age by alphamugwump · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Damn right. If data is too difficult to access, it's the same as if it didn't exist. The Ark of the Covenant might really be stored in some government warehouse, and it wouldn't make a difference. To be easily accessible, data must be indexed, redundant, and digital. Which, practically speaking, means it must be on the internet. You might have some nifty search routines, but I guarantee they're not half as good as google. This is my problem whenever I try to search an academic database: their search sucks. Even if you have a general idea of the title, an article can still be hard to find.

      But more frightening is the rapid obsolescence of the physical medium. If you can't read the data, it also does you no good. Example: my parents recently mailed me a VHS tape. I don't have a VCR. Nobody I know has a VCR. My parents have a VCR. But when it breaks, there won't be any VCR repairmen left to fix it, or any companies making VCRs. They might be able to find something on ebay, but it would be a collector's item.

      What happens when all those microfilm readers break? Do you order a device custom-built to read your data? No, as important as it may be, it probably isn't worth it. That data is effectively gone. Every time there is an article about archival on Slashdot, someone mentions how durable paper is. Of course, stone is even more durable, but it has massive problems with storage density. And of course, there's the fact that nobody will know how to read your runes in a couple hundred years. Hell, a hundred years from now, we'll probably be plugging ethernet into our skulls. We probably won't be able to read anymore.

      Funny thing is, we (or my generation, anyway) like to think that the internet has always existed, and that every scrap of human knowledge is in there somewhere. It feels big, nebulous, and immortal. But try searching for things that happened before, say, 1995. Not big things, like wars and shootings. Try googling your grandparents. Or minor news, like some school being opened, or old radio shows, or something.

      It won't be there. And your radio station or newspaper isn't about to digitize all their archives, if they still have them. In theory, there's a record, but in practice, it never happened. Written history has given way to "internet history", just as the oral tradition gave way to written history. And it's like we're not writing down the Odyssey because the Bards Association of America will sue us if we do. So only information worth risking a DMCA is getting saved.

      Thus, Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons from the 60s are easily available. But the news? You're pretty much out of luck.

  7. On the flip side. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    As a researcher, (who's worked in industry and the university sector) I can tell you flat out that privatisation has helped the quality of research and pace of progress in the fields that I work in: physics and fundamental computer science. Competition and profit are strong motivators for many people.

    I do agree it can be irksome that you can't tell folk about your work - I've written more papers than I can count for my previous employer - they fill more space that a CD provides - yet I'll never be able to show them to anyone outside of the company, or have them cited in public publications, because they're commercially sensitive and would be easily exploitable by competitors for profit.

    However, working for a private company does free you from the waste endemic in universities, and provide greater opportunity and increased freedom for many people.

    Privatisation is not all bad.

    1. Re:On the flip side. by lawpoop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can tell you flat out that privatization has helped the quality of research and pace of progress in the fields that I work in: physics and fundamental computer science...

      I've written more papers than I can count for my previous employer ... yet I'll never be able to show them to anyone outside of the company, or have them cited in public publications, because they're commercially sensitive and would be easily exploitable by competitors for profit. OK, so privatization helps the pace and quality of research... but doesn't that lead to duplication of effort, and a general stymieing of knowledge in the field? If you are doing some great research, but it only reaches other people in your company, aren't there 50 other companies who are doing the exact same research, but only keeping it internal?

      So what happens after a generation or two of all of the cutting edge research happening solely within corporations, who aren't sharing with each other? Wouldn't that basically put a halt to the progress of the field, since in order to learn cutting edge stuff, you would have to go to a company after your degree, and then you are bound up by the confidentiality agreements, and nobody can legally reverse engineer the fruits of your research because of laws like the DMCA?

      It might be faster than the university for a while, but after that while, it would seem to peter out to me.
      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    2. Re:On the flip side. by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Competition and profit are strong motivators for many people.

      What competition? The academic publishing sector is undergoing merger after merger. Monopolisation is a fact of life. Prices of papers keep going up an up. Profit is the main motivator here and it is directly opposed to the principles of research; open exchange of ideas.

      However, working for a private company does free you from the waste endemic in universities, and provide greater opportunity and increased freedom for many people.

      Waste in terms of what? We're talking about access to information here. If a lazy university academic produces a only one publically viewable paper in 10 years, while a private researcher produces 100 private papers in the same time, the lazy academic is still infinitely more productive when it comes to disseminating research.

      Privatisation is not all bad.

      That's true. Corporate shills for example profit exorbitantly.
      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
  8. Problem with Privacy by adarklite · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Everyone is so quick to demand privacy, but aren't as quick to allow other entities like businesses, governments, and other organizations the right to the same privacy. However, privacy is a tricky issue. The US Constitution never mentioned the right to privacy and I'm sure that the founding father's would've found it laughable if someone mentioned it to them. We in America are guaranteed our right to live the way we want as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights or on mutually agreed upon laws. Doesn't mean that the government can't know about how you live your life. It just can't interfere with it if its not against the law. I'm not defending any position mind you. But, if you deserve the right to withhold information from the government so do they. Not all knowledge is in your best interest.

    1. Re:Problem with Privacy by pionzypher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First off, I agree with you on your last point. There is certain knowledge that shouldn't be publicly available to everyone.

      That said, the constitution doesn't mention a right to privacy because the constitution was created to spell out the limited rights granted to the government. During its creation, this was clearly understood by those in participation. This is why the bill of rights was written later- the governmental powers were quite limited in scope at the outset and it was assumed that all else was in favor of the citizens.

      Some of the founders believed that there might be confusion regarding this, hence the bill of rights. Which brings us to amendments 9 & 10. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. and The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.. Thus, since it isn't written anywhere in the constitution nor in any of the amendments that americans do not have a right to privacy, we the citizens retain that right by omission.

      I also disagree with the founding fathers finding our expectation to privacy laughable. They were attempting to crawl out from under the thumb of the british empire. In fact, it would appear to me that the early workings of the government suggest that the attitude was more of a "to each his own" style. As you yourself stated "We in America are guaranteed our right to live the way we want as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights or on mutually agreed upon laws."

      Finally, I disagree partially with your suggestion that the government has its own right to privacy. Public office? Funded by taxpayers? Not a private citizen? The government was intended to work for and in a sense be monitored by the citizens. Representation, accountability, those were what we were shooting for back then. Privatization and the ensuing loss/lockup of what was previously not public, but available to those with clearance doesn't promote any of these things.

      --
      I'll believe in corporations having personhood when Texas executes one... - advocate_one
    2. Re:Problem with Privacy by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not defending any position mind you. But, if you deserve the right to withhold information from the government so do they.

      Well, that certainly sounds like you are defending a position. And why does it have to be reciprocal? There are reasons why the government and publicly traded companies should be open that simply don't apply to people. It's like children and parents. Parents need to be able to know 100% about their small child. The small child doesn't need to know what mommy and daddy do when the bedroom door is closed. There are reasons for both, and the relationship isn't symmetrical. The government should be transparent. I vote for people based off their record. If their record is sealed (or the effects of their votes), then I am not an informed voter. Corporations that choose to be publicly traded must disclose financial information so that investors can make informed decisions. Corporations are also not people, and have no rights other than what is granted by the government (the opposite of people).

      The US Constitution never mentioned the right to privacy

      Sure it does. Read the 9th and 10th Amendments and report back what you find. I have a constitutionally guaranteed Right to Privacy. It's funny that those that claim to be the most literal interpreters of the Constitution just pretend the 9th and 10th Amendments aren't there (I'm not stating specifically you, but just those people in general).

  9. privatization by jovius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's amazing how everything can be turned into a business.. The sad thing is, that the companies seek to protect their interests not the humanity's, which in the end pays for it. It hardly leads to savings, when the government functions are maintained by a mesh of private companies, which all seek to profit from the business of governing...

  10. Re:Is it really a problem though? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    At this stage, I think it would be best if everyone had the knowledge. Think switzerland (where you have a requirement to keep arms, not just a right). I'd feel a lot safer in the long run (i.e. for my children's future) if the government was constantly under REAL threat of being overthrown.

  11. Re:Is it really a problem though? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is security via obscurity really how we want to maintain our nuclear defense?

  12. Re:In ... by Sir_Kurt · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why is parent post moderated as funny? It should be moderated +5 as informative.

    Kurt

  13. nothing unusual about that by c6gunner · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It' just the next logical step. We've progressed from a manufacturing-oriented society to a service-oriented society, and are moving toward an information-oriented society. As goods and services decline in value, it's only natural for information to increase in value, and for people to start controlling what information they give out to whom.

  14. Re:Which company researched the bomb? by Gerzel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Indeed.

    The knowledge of how to make a nuke also comes fairly easily with an understanding of physics on a degree level. Would you deny physics doctorates to anyone from a foreign country that might want to make nukes or support terrorists?

    Biological and chemical weaponry are the same. Anyone with a modern degree in the field should fairly easily be able to use such knowledge as is required for such a degree (and all the GOOD that can be done with it) to create a weapon of devastating proportions that I, for one, would not like to imagine on the real world.

    The truth is knowledge, to use a cliche, is power. It is a tool. A knife that can be used to reap crops and prepare food or a weapon to be used out of desperation and fear against a threat real or perceived.

    Just because a tool can be used for harm does not mean that it is wise to take it out of the hands of man and if we do decide to try and limit it we are fools to think that it can be held entirely from others.