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Driver's License to be the Next Debit Card
prostoalex writes "Your US driver's license has a magnetic stripe with unique ID in it, and your debit card carries a magnetic stripe with account information on it, so why not link the two together and allow people to use their driver's licenses as debit cards? That's precisely what a young company National Payment Card is doing in select locations, according to Business Week: 'Gas-station owners are pleased with the program too. Because NPC processes the payment as an e-check with the Automated Clearing House (ACH), a network most commonly used for direct deposits, participating retailers bypass credit card companies such as Visa and Mastercard.'"
...your account is frozen. Brilliant!
"It's a reverse vampire...they....they crave the sun!"
It's not for me, but I can see where some people would like this. One less card to carry around and potentially lose.
So now someone can steal my identity and my credit in one card?
I would like to be the first to say this is a really bad idea.
Get a web developer
As of today, driver's licenses and ID cards are state-specific. Layout, extra features (barcode, magnetic strip), anti-forgery techniques, etc are all decided on a state-by-state basis. If you move to a different state, you need to get a new license from that state within a certain amount of time (usually it's within a few weeks of establishing permanent residence). In order to roll out a nation-wide license-as-debit card program, either states will have to standardize on specific extra features like a magentic strip and what information is stored there, or licensing will have to be handled by the federal government.
As a believer in states' rights, this looks like nothing more than an end-run around opposition to a national ID program. If they can get people hooked on using their license as a debit card, nobody will object when the fed steps in to take control of licensing to make it "more efficient".
One early morning, back in the early days of debit cards, I inserted what I thought was my debit card into the ATM. It asked for, and accepted my PIN, gave me account options, then, after a short delay, said that there was no such account and returned my card to me. As I pulled the card out, I realized that I had inserted my Driver's License into the machine, instead of the debit card. I had always thought that the two should work together, as it appears that such interaction had been pre-built into the ATM software, even back then.
How about no.
Shall we enumerate some of the problems?
Suspended/surrendered license = no money
Hacked debit card = hacked license
numerous swipes = worn card + license. I'd rather not deal with the DMV any more than absolutely required.
What is the benefit for me? Nada.
The key to successful reduction of identity theft is the ability for revokation NOT only by grantor (state) or clearinghouse (credit bureaus), but most importantly, the grantee (the end-users).
Without the end-user being able to revoke a stolen card, the whole system is worth squat, security-wise.
And none of that clear-text personalized info on the magstrip, thank you very much, NO!
Michigan does not use privately assigned numbers for our drivers license numbers. Our drivers license numbers are calculated using a method that's not secret or random or anything.
_ mi
We use a system that combines soundex codes with date of birth. You can find anyones michigan driver's license number if you know:
First name, Middle Name, Last name, Month of Birth, year of birth.
If you're from michigan, get out your driver's license and see for yourself.
http://www.highprogrammer.com/cgi-bin/uniqueid/dl
There are only a few times where it might be a few numbers off. If you happen to share a first name middle name last name month of birth and year of birth, then the last 3 numbers will be off by 1. Besides that, this works really well.
This is great for catching fake ID's. None of the fake ID's bother to calculate the right number. Most bouncers who police doors are familiar enough with the codes to flag fakes quite easily.
I see where this is going: National ID, financial account ... next is it medical data stored on same card?
Heck, this card will be TOO important! What if it is lost! Why, I can't be identified, buy or sell, get health care... you'd better just tattoo the damn number on my arm and forehead.
No, thanks.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
As a proud citizen of Montana, I am pleased to report that our state told the federal government to "shove it". In the words of our governor, "Never, no, hell no".
I refuse to use debit cards at all (as opposed to an ATM card or a credit card), because they draw directly from your account and they don't require an independent piece of verification (like a PIN) to use.
Now that depends on the debit card, doesn't it?
There's nothing to prevent this company, or one like it, from requiring a PIN to transact business when you identify via driver's license.
At least a debit card can be cancelled in the event it's stolen, even though by then it may be too late. How are you going to cancel your driver's license when the DMV is only open Monday through Friday 8-5?
By calling the "card stolen" hotline of N.P.C. and telling them to disconnect your license from your bank account.
Your driver's license is just being used as a key to a database. It's another way to go from a piece of plastic in your pocket to your name and account number - after that it's E-checks on your account with the E-check processing company.
The only real issue I see with this (besides people reading personal data off the plastic) is if the state doesn't make some distinction in the data on the license between a lost/stolen one and the replacement. Without that, once you've had ONE license lost or stolen you can't turn such a service back on for your new driver's license without re-enabling it for the missing one. (Of course you can change the PIN - presuming a PIN is required to use the service.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
So when your license is suspended...your account is frozen. Brilliant!
Nope.
When your license is suspended it doesn't keep you from using it as ID. It just keeps you from driving legally.
All this system is doing is using your license as an ID to look up your account in the e-check processing service's database. This keeps on working until the service decides to stop accepting that particular license as ID. (Probably when it expires and/or is replaced with a new one.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Err... wouldn't that mean that you could pay a traffic fine immediately? Which translates to:
"Do you really want your state government having easy access to your bank account?"
"How fast will the state legislature pass a law requiring the immediate and direct payment of fines via the license/debit card?"
"A hold has been placed on your account for the amount of the fine. The hold will be removed if you are found innocent. Your court date is in 30 days."
Lets make our drivers licences Debit Cards
Hey lets make our drivers licences national ID Cards
Hey lets make everyone in the World have ID cards that can be used as money which makes a world currency
Hey we're too lazy to carry cards anymore, lets have a microchip imbedded in everyone.
God spoke to me.
(Some context: I founded a company that made credit card processing software for Linux (among others) more than ten years ago. My knowledge on the matter might be stale (as of about 2002), but as far as I know nothing about this has changed much.)
This is very bad.
When you use a credit card, you get fantastic levels of consumer protection. By law, you're liable for at most $50 of bad transactions on your credit card, and most of the major payment backbones (Visa, Mastercard, etc) have reduced that to $0 liability over the Internet. There's no burden to reporting the charges as bad - you report the charges and go on with your life and you get a bright shiny new card in the mail in a few days.
On the ACH network, it's very different - it's like you're writing checks (the ACH network is used to settle checks). In other words, you're limited to the laws protecting you from bad checks, which puts the burden on you to prove that the charges did not come from you. Recovery of the money can be a nightmare, which can only be mitigated by the policies of your bank. The law offers you very little protection. Some banks are very good about this, others won't lift a finger to help you unless it's required by law.
Debit cards are bad, but at least their widespread use have made banks familiar with the issues. This is much, much worse.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
So when an officer stops you for speeding, does handing them your license constitute offering a bribe??
Debit cards suck. If there's a fraudulent or otherwise disputed transaction, the other party has your money. Getting it back is a major pain in the ass. My friends have had issues where it's taken them months to get something resolved and, in the mean time (it bears repeating), they have your money. Credit cards companies are generally much easier to deal with - the money is still in your pocket, so the burden is on the merchant to prove the transaction is valid. If (like me) you want to avoid credit card debt, use American Express charge cards (green, gold, platinum, or black). These basically work kind of like a net-30 account for your purchases. AmEx has always been great to me when there's a problem with a charge.
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Thanks for pointing this out. I'm so sick of being asked for ID when I use my credit card. BTW, here's a PDF of the merchant rules - page 29 also mentions the "See ID" nonsense.
Remember: if you try to buy something with your Visa, but they won't let you because you won't show your ID, you can file a complaint against the merchant by calling (800) VISA-911. So far I've never had to make the call, just had to threaten it.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
I would much rather have my cell phone be my:
RFID Entry key (With an actual battery it can be truly secure)
Debit/Credit Card (Same deal, different implementation)
Driver's Liscence/ID
Etc. Etc. Etc...
I should have to type in a PIN or something to spend money. You can already deactivate phone immediately if they are lost or stolen, so that's not really an issue. I'm sure this is the way things are headed.
--The universe will not be altered by forum threads, even those which are very wry. --Tycho Brahe (Penny Arcade)