Hearst's Seattle PI to Test Market E-Paper

NewsCloud writes "The Hearst Corporation plans to use the Seattle Post-Intelligencer to test market LG Philipps' recently announced flexible color E-Paper. 'The electronic P-I will carry real-time news, same as the Internet, not yesterday's news like traditional papers. Readers will turn the e-paper's pages by touching the flexible screen. And when those readers head off to work, they will roll up the electronic P-I and stuff it in their pocket, purse, or briefcase.' The announcement comes amidst the recent settlement of bitter co-operating disputes between Seattle's two newspapers and Bill Gates' recent comments on the shifting of the advertising market away from traditional media." Update: 05/18 21:51 GMT by Z : Michelle Nicolosi, Assistant Managing Editor for the PI, emailed this correction: "Someday, Seattle P-I readers may be able to carry around their news in a bendable, electronic paper device -- but not any time soon. Hearst Corp., which owns the Seattle P-I, has no plans to use the Seattle daily newspaper to test a newly announced E-paper gadget." The original site linked apparently got it wrong.

Comments

A Scanner Darkly

[n3tcat]

When they begin making clothing of this stuff, I call dibs on being "Fred".

what about the Indiana PI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I heard, they decided it was 3.

Oh, there's an article?

Re:what about the Indiana PI?

[parkrrrr]

They didn't actually legislate it to anything, and the legislation that was proposed (but never passed) would not have set the value to three, but to the result of some nonsensical computation that only a crank could understand.

Of course, for many purposes, three is a perfectly good approximation to pi. It's only off by about five percent, after all.

Re:what about the Indiana PI?

[maxwell demon]

Of course, for many purposes, three is a perfectly good approximation to pi. It's only off by about five percent, after all.

If you need something better, 22/7 is still quite simple, but off by only about 0.04%.

Re:what about the Indiana PI?

[parkrrrr]

But much harder to multiply in your head, which is really what I was thinking of when I said "for many purposes." If I had a calculator handy, I'd have no problem recalling that pi is approximately 3.14159265358979323ish.

Alternatively, if you want to do it in your head AND you need better precision, multiply by three and then add 5%. 5% is easy to calculate, because it's just a halving and a decimal shift. If you need more precision than 0.2%, you're probably not standing in the aisle at Home Depot wondering about how much of something you need.

Newspapers

[nelsonal]

The problem with most news papers isn't that they publish yesterday's news today, it's that there's aproximatly 0 usefulness accompanying the news. When the analysis exists, the papers continue to do well. Too many papers depended on their local monopoly on classified advertising for far too long and publish a shoddy product. That monopoly is fast loosing value to the internet and most firms were caught flat footed. E-paper isn't going to change that shift.

Re:Newspapers

[Wookietim]

It's impossible for print media to compete with the internet. The internet combines the best of TV with the best of print media. Therefore, this move makes sense - I have no doubt that in a couple years E-Paper will be able to have moving images, sound and wireless internet connectivity... Making the current print media obsolete. At the very least, it'll save a couple trees...

Re:Newspapers

[nelsonal]

A better answer would be to not compete by offering something the internet rarely offer's well, not news but thoughtful analysis (it's going to take time to generate that so the slower delivery is far less meaningful).

Re:Newspapers

[giorgiofr]

E-Paper has been in the works for a long time now and hasn't delivered on the promises. I doubt we'll have paper-quality E-Paper anytime soon. Besides, the print industry plants more trees than it cuts down and uses lots of recycled paper :)

Re:Newspapers

[Lemmy Caution]

What also isn't going to change is that people choose newspapers based on their niches, not because they are published via one medium over another. In the UK, the paper you read says, pretty much, who you are: the difference between a Sun reader and a Guardian reader is massive. I don't know the Seattle markets, but I suspect that the gap between a P-I reader and a Seattle Times reader has more to do with culture, socioeconomic class, and political affiliation than with how the content is distributed.

Re:Newspapers

[sgt_doom]

Tremendously well said, Good Citizen nelsonal. A month or so ago, I purchased the NY Times, Washington Post, Seattle Times-P.I. (that would be the Seattle-Post Intelligencer, they evidently combine the Seattle Times and P.I. for the Sunday edition) and a bunch of other major American newspapers. I do this every six months to see if the American newspapers are still filled with only crapola and no content.

I read every read every word of every edition, and the only new item I learned (and nothing newsworthy, of course, that stuff is only to be found on blogs, online or in Euro and Asian newspapers) was from the Fashion Supplement in the NY Times: that Richard Gere's son's name is Homer. (Whoopee do dah.....).

Re:Newspapers

[nelsonal]

Exactly, I read every page of the Financial Times daily (with relish on Saturdays), and the Economist weekly. Both papers are doing quite well with revenue and circulation up, and profits for the group up 50% last year.

Re:Newspapers

[nelsonal]

I'm not sure if there is a difference between the Times and P-I, they share many of the functions that separate the Sun from the Guardian.

Re:Newspapers

[rrhal]

There's no real difference between the two papers anymore. The PI was a more progressive paper once upon a time - and some percieve it to be today. The Times has a larger subscription base - I think because it was the morning paper and the PI was the afternoon paper.

Re:Newspapers

[Leiterfluid]

I disagree. I tend to find the Times to be a bit more, dare I say, fair and balanced than the PI. I prefer the Times over the PI for the following reasons.
The Times is really more of a local paper. The PI is, just like any other Hearst-owned property, more concerned with national headlines than the region.
The Times is more balanced, especially when it comes to endorsements. The PI always endorses to the left, often to the extreme left. The Times has made endorsements for more moderate candidates that make sense to Seattle, and Washington as a whole. For example, the Times endorsed both Dino Rossi and Mike McGavick, both moderate Republicans.
You would never see the PI "stoop to that level."

Re:Newspapers

[belg4mit]

>Besides, the print industry plants more trees than it cuts down and uses lots of recycled paper :)
On some places, not everywhere, and even then it's not necessarily as good of a thing as you think.
If you intend to get a lot of use out of it, durable and recyclable beats disposable and recyclable.

Refresh Rate?

[strredwolf]

Has anyone determined the refresh rate on these things when pushed, aka playing video? I know the color's terrible (4 bits per component, 12-bit color) but I'm intrested if it'll handle 30fps video. Anyone? Beuler? Beuler?

Re:Refresh Rate?

[Anonymous Coward]

eh, more like 2fps. Slow framerate seems to be the biggest limitation for e-ink devices. Makes navigation a real pain.

Re:Refresh Rate?

[Aladrin]

No, last I heard the refresh was quite slow, and that's why it's being marketted as electronic paper, and not a flexible screen. It also happens to be VERY much like paper to the eyes as well.

Re:Refresh Rate?

[AmIAnAi]

Fast refresh rate would have its downside too. Imagine trying to read the morning news while various adverts were flashing away round the page trying to grab your attention.

At least with current online content you can block many of the ads with the browser or hosts. You can be sure that this would be DRM laden so you could not block the Ads.

Re:Refresh Rate?

[thrillseeker]

Imagine trying to read the morning news while various adverts were flashing away

You mean like every other advertising supported site on the web that is losing money?

Re:Refresh Rate?

[mlk]

Ruddy slow (1second according to a post on the last ePaper story!

Plus that would negate the battery saving advantage of them (they only use power on a refresh).

Re:paper with moving images on it

[morgan_greywolf]

Considering that e-paper is a 'roll-up' computer display, I would imagine things like animated GIFs would be possible and even likely.

Re:paper with moving images on it

[fotbr]

Great. Punch the Monkey, coming soon to a paper near you!

Don't Seattle's buses have free wifi?

[antifoidulus]

here is a story on it and I remember when I was there seeing an add about it on the side of the bus(didn't have any internet equipped devices to test it out). So instead of a paper from a fixed source, couldn't you just as easily bust out your pda/psp/ds/iPhone/whatever on the bus and choose your source of news? These devices also let you do a lot of other things if you don't see any articles that are worthwhile.

Re:Don't Seattle's buses have free wifi?

[Sparks23]

Not all of our buses; the 'WiFi Bus' stuff is still being rolled out. 48 buses, scattered across 4 routes. Seems to be working well, though, and they plan to roll it out more widely if it proves popular; it mostly seems to be useful for people stuck in traffic on the way to work, so they can pull out a PDA or a laptop and deal with an e-mail or something.

Colleges

[jshriverWVU]

I can see this being EXTREMELY useful in the college scene. Imagine walking into a classroom and a bluetooth or wifi transmitter sends todays lectures to your e-paper. Then you can sit at your desk and follow along and spend more time learning than trying to frantically write things down. I welcome our paper overlords :)

Re:Colleges

[suv4x4]

I can see this being EXTREMELY useful in the college scene. Imagine walking into a classroom and a bluetooth or wifi transmitter sends todays lectures to your e-paper. Then you can sit at your desk and follow along and spend more time learning than trying to frantically write things down. I welcome our paper overlords :)

Ask yourself why this isn't the norm today with laptops, and some lecturers even ban the use of laptops in the classroom.
And please don't come up with stupid reasons that it's because you can play games on a laptop or something like this.

Re:Colleges

[jshriverWVU]

and some lecturers even ban the use of laptops in the classroom.

Here is the reason I've been told, even though I dont agree with it. (Also depends on the school you're going to albeit) It's unfair to those who can't afford laptops.
This world is cut-throat and the strongest or richest tend to win. I think we spend to much time trying to equalize things out, always catering to the lowest common denominator. Which can be good in some cases, but often abused to dumb down the college experience. This is one of those cases where you're hindering someones education. It's just wrong.

BTW I'm poor so I'm not flaming for those who can afford laptops, or private tutors, etc. I couldnt have those, but if they are available more power to those who can have them. Just more incentive for me to work harder.

Re:Colleges

[suv4x4]

Here is the reason I've been told, even though I dont agree with it. (Also depends on the school you're going to albeit) It's unfair to those who can't afford laptops. .... BTW I'm poor so I'm not flaming for those who can afford laptops, or private tutors, etc. I couldnt have those, but if they are available more power to those who can have them. Just more incentive for me to work harder.

I don't understand however why you couldn't. We're not talking high school here I believe, but higher education. My brother studies in USA and we're by no means rich, but he bought a new laptop from Dell for just below $600.

And there were laptops on eBay for $200. Now I understand this is a lot of money for some people, but you need to spend such an amount monthly just for food, books and such. So I'm not sure I understand this.

Re:Colleges

[jshriverWVU]

Think you answered your own question:

But you need to spend such an amount monthly just for food, books and such.

After paying for tuition, room, board, food, books, lab fees, daily parking, gas, incidentals, supplies, saving up $600 is hard. Plus when I was in college laptops were in the $1200+ range (circa late 90's early 00).

But to my earlier post. E-paper would be useful. If it's mass produced (at least enough to replace a newspaper) then it would be cheap enough for college students, even the poorer ones. If it has some kind of interface (USB) you could always go to a computer lab unload it to a USB key for storage. So many possibilities I'm just tickled.

Plus interaction. Imagine if you're in a lab class, if you could write on these e-paper then it could be an effective way of passing idea's concept back and forth between your partners, like a private dry erase board that clones itself.

Re:Colleges

[suv4x4]

Plus interaction. Imagine if you're in a lab class, if you could write on these e-paper then it could be an effective way of passing idea's concept back and forth between your partners, like a private dry erase board that clones itself.

You can't write on it though. It's also not like a touch screen, I suppose the controls will be small spots on the side. Adding full touch-screen capability would mean it becomes more expensive, and thicker.

I think people make those devices more complex in their mind than their are. At this stage, all they can do is download a bunch of pages, and browse them. That's about it.

Re:Colleges

[hal2814]

That writing does more to help you remember a topic than just listening to the lecture and reading e-notes afterwards ever could. Besides, if you are "frantically" writing, then you are doing something wrong. You don't have to write down every word that comes from the professors mouth. Most Universities offer a note-taking class of some sort. At my University, it only took two hours of my time and made me a much better note taker. I had to take the course before I could be a professional note taker for disabled students, but it was open to anyone.

Re:Colleges

[phaggood]

> I can see this being EXTREMELY useful in the college scene.

Heck, it'd be useful in *middle school* where my daughter hefts a rolling suitcase full of books to/from school every day. An inexpensive e-reader containing all her texts would be a dream, especially if supplemented with free sources like Project Guttenberg. The OLPC is a nifty thing (got to handle on "in the flesh" at the recent Penguicon), but a cheap reader would be an even greater catalyst for transforming education. I wonder if the Mexican e-textbook project is aware of these devices.

Re:Colleges

[Hatta]

Hardly, writing notes just distracts you. I found I did much better in classes when I didn't take notes, whether the prof handed out lecture notes or not. Paying attention and thinking about what's being said helps me remember a topic a lot more than playing stenographer does. When I pay attention, I come out of a class with a good understanding of the topic, when I take notes I come out of the class with a list of factoids. Besides, anything I would write down is in the book anyway.

Re:Colleges

[ryeinn]

I'm sorry, but everyone who tries to make an absolute declaration of "taking notes helps more" versus "just listening and getting printouts of notes helps more" is missing the major point. This is something I encounter far too often as a high school teacher. There is no one perfect way to do it. There are different styles of learning depending on who you are. Some people are auditory learners and some are visual and some are kinesthetic (they learn by doing). Personally, I'm kinesthetic and visual, so when I was in high school, I learned best by taking notes. Some of my students are auditory, they listen, and then take the notes at a later date, when they can concentrate on what they're writing. Please don't try to set absolutes, as you're going against educational research (sorry, I don't have citations at my beck and call, I'm in the middle of a prep period during the teaching day, so I only have a few minutes to myself before kids come in for class)

Re:Colleges

[TenBrothers]

Well I am a professor. There are two reasons why my lecture notes are not transmitted via WiFi/Bluetooth/etc to students as they enter the room.

One, I don't want to have to type them up into an outline format. I have my own ways of taking notes that make sense to me, which I am sure would no tmake sense to others. I leave it up to them to transfer the material into a method that makes sense to them.

Two, and more importantly, I already have background materials available online, BEFORE the students enter the classroom. Why do we need to have a substantial technology investment in each classroom just to transmit information that is already being transmitted through easier-to-collect methods? Is there something so difficult about clicking a link outside of class that requires we push materials through bluetooth?

Re:Colleges

[jshriverWVU]

Well said, I had a teacher like you in college and he was one of my favorites. He had most of the material on his website, so prior to class we could download it, read it, research it, then when we came to class we'd already have a basic understanding of what's going on, so then we could use that time to fine tune the knowledge and ask questions.

I find that a lot better than going to a lecture course of 500, and no one being able to ask questions and spend an hour, hour and a half being hammered by a raw stream of data.

Re:Colleges

[Hatta]

You are right, I should have said "Writing notes just distracts me".

Re:Colleges

[zippthorne]

That might be the reason they give you, but that's not the best reason for YOU to ditch the laptop and take notes the regular way. Heck, even if they pass out pages of "lecture notes" you're still well advised to take your own notes for several reasons.

1) there might be stuff talked about that isn't in the notes
0) The essence of learning is repetition. By writing it down, you actually reduce the chance you'll need to look it up later.

And don't get into a whole, argument about "well that's just learning by rote." You have to learn some stuff by rote before the rest can click into place. You simply cannot make the connections if you don't have the connecting points. In fact, no teacher can tell you anything other than rote knowledge. The job of the teacher is to give you enough information to lead you to a greater understanding.

In other news...

[coastin]

e-paper covered cereal boxes add audio to bring "snap, crackle and crunch to life.

Imagine this...

[FredDC]

An e-paper with a wireless connection (with widespread wireless connectivity) and a web browser.

I could read slashdot on the way to work!

Re:Imagine this...

[blue_moon_ro]

Soooo, what am I supposed to do at work then?..... /ducks

Re:Imagine this...

[Miseph]

Sweet! I've been wondering how to kill more brain cells during the work day for years now! First sniffing the fumes from all my markers and pens, then bashing my head up against the wall for hours at a time (reminds me of tech support...), and now I can get an early start by reading Slashdot on my commute!

Re:Imagine this...

[FredDC]

Hmmm, you're right...

Besides, reading slashdot while driving maybe isn't such a good idea afterall...

Re:Imagine this...

[Constantine XVI]

And then imagine a train (or bus) full of people reading Slashdot on their e-paper, tightly clustered together.
For no reason at all, let's call this train the Beowulf train.

Re:paper with moving images on it

[suv4x4]

I can't tell from the links if this "e-paper" will have moving images or if the images are static.

The e-paper technology is optimized to hold a static image without electricity. This is where it excels. The image refresh rate is abysmally slow compared to even the older TFT screens.

So if you're willing to keep your paper "on" to keep animating the images (which will waste far more electricity compared to when you only change pages and turn it off), and we're talking very low FPS image (2-3 frames per second) it may work.

Hackers

[Prysorra]

Anyone else sense trouble on the horizon?

It's just a bit....harder....to hack wood pulp paper.

oh, look, they're

[necaris]

making softscreens. I wonder when the Gaijin will turn up?

Unfamiliar for old people?

[UbuntuDupe]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned how this might be unnerving for old people, who may not adjust well to the new paper. (Believe it or not, Seattle has old people too!) Keep in mind, these are the people who cost the government and local check depositors lots of extra money by refusing to switch their Social Security payments to direct deposit because they love the warm, fuzzy feeling of getting a check in the mail.

But..

[name*censored*]

can you roll it up and use it to store fish and chips in?

Why e-paper?

[CrankinOut]

Four reasons:
High resolution => more info/sq. inch
High contrast => more legibility in ambient light without backlighting = longer battery life
Static image (power only needed to change image) => longer battery life
Light weight (no heavy glass screen or big batteries needed to create image)
Having seen high quality e-paper on a working device, I can say that it looks like the image has been printed on a laser printer. The long battery life means that it's useful when the information changes on the order of minutes, not seconds, and you can carry it around easily because of the light weight.
No, this is not a replacement for an active screen and GIF's and movies are not realistic uses for it.

Re:paper with moving images on it

[louks]

I've played a little bit with Sony's Reader in the stores. If the technology base is the same, moving images would not be very feasible at all. To refresh the screen on the Sony, it first inverts the ENTIRE screen (possibly to 'unsettle' the ink) then writes new information. I'm pretty sure that any changes, no matter how small, required the entire page to 'flash' and refresh. Even then, there are some 'Etch-A-Sketch' style artifacts left behind. Unless they have a controller that can shake up only a portion of the ink, it will still show ghosting and blurriness.

Re:paper with moving images on it

[Constantine XVI]

So modern paper technology has finally caught up with Harry Potter :)

Re:

[overcaffein8d]

Please wait while your ePaper updates over the Sub-Etha-Net.

Re:paper with moving images on it

[mlk]

Why would you want to do that, it would kill battery life.

Re:paper with moving images on it

[suv4x4]

I've played a little bit with Sony's Reader in the stores. If the technology base is the same, moving images would not be very feasible at all. To refresh the screen on the Sony, it first inverts the ENTIRE screen (possibly to 'unsettle' the ink) then writes new information. I'm pretty sure that any changes, no matter how small, required the entire page to 'flash' and refresh. Even then, there are some 'Etch-A-Sketch' style artifacts left behind. Unless they have a controller that can shake up only a portion of the ink, it will still show ghosting and blurriness.


Technology-wise, there's no need to invert the whole screen, but I suppose it was done for simplicity given the actual purpose of the device. But yea, no video for sure. At best, talking about a slideshow.

Umbrella?

[jimand]

here you go.

Battery?

[killa62]

I don't understand how these will be powered if they can be rolled up. As far as I know, thin, rollable batteries do not exist outside of the lab yet.

Re:Battery?

[WeblionX]

The batteries can be attached to an edge, which you roll the display around.

Umbrella

[Jamil Karim]

There is an umbrella that allows you to "watch slide-shows". It has a built-in camera, and allows you to transfer pictures to flickr. It's also got a GPS and a compass. I don't quite think it is as practical as a hands-free umbrella, but maybe if you combined the two, you'd have something.

Long Live Newspapers

[Frosty Piss]

The problem with most news papers isn't that they publish yesterday's news today

Most people are not like those that frequent Slashdot, they are not tied to the Internet by an IV, don't have Fox / CNN / Local News on the telly 24/7 droning away in the background. Yesterday's news this morning is quite adequate and timely for most people, who still enjoy the physical stimulation of turning the pages of a printed newspaper.

We've been hearing for years that the printed word is dead, books should have been gone long ago according to these blathering disemboweled heads. Words on paper are still around and will be probably forever.

Not just the news ?

[DrSkwid]

What's going to stop people using the e-paper to read other things?
I'm sure we'd all like something for reading documents on the move like reading from a book. If these guys want to generate buzz for their device, the should include a Project Gutenburg reader, extending the ad reach and revene sharing with the project would be good. I'd go for something like that.

Great idea

[Perp Atuitie]

Now the muggers can steal my newspaper, too. Progress is a wonderful thing.

I told them I'd subscribe ...

[Dillenger69]

The last time the P.I. people called I told them I'd subscribe if I could get it without the "paper" part. The guy thought I was crazy.
I'd definitely like to get in on the test group for this device.

Re:paper with moving images on it

[Randle_Revar]

I read this as "Monkey Punch", and I thought "oh goody, Lupin the Third in my newspaper!"
I was so disappointed when I realized my mistake.

When I'm finished reading it ...

[PPH]

... can I put it in the bottom of my E-birdcage?

It's Kodak all over

[frankShook]

Hearst is beating a dead horse. I can't possibly keep up with the world-spanning RSS feeds I track on my kitchen laptop right now (I'm behind by 1095 articles at the moment). Why would I want the narrow scope of a single news source when I can look to the 'net?

Looks like hearst is trying CPR on the old newspaper model. I refer you to to Kodak, who can't face up to technology passing them by, and continues to pursue pathetic variations on the drugstore film processing theme. E-paper is a great idea, but I want it to be the next-gen computer, not a newspaper.

"Errors in reason become evident in practice" --The Ayn Rand philosophy of objectivism (paraphrase)

Re:slashpapers

[nelsonal]

I read two papers daily, and one weekly paper (in dead tree form). I know that if the newspaper industry disappeared it would be very bad. However, most local city papers are pieces of crap, they need to change to survive, and not just because the internet threatens them. They grew very soft from the 1950s to the 1990s and were in a slow decline prior to the internet becoming a strong competitor to them, they'd already bleed most national accounts, and were holding on to their local ties.
Most city papers in the country are essentially an AP/Reuters/Knight-Ridder national feed with a page of local news, and classifieds stuck on the back. That's obviously not going to last now that classifed isn't nearly as profitable as it had been. Anyone can get an AP feed online for free obliviating 90% of the value of the pages in the paper.
Papers that continue to deliver relavent, exclusive information (because they are uncovering and featuring it) are experiencing circulation (as well as revenue and profit) increases, but too many papers in this country are wasting effort duplicating things that don't add value (there is little need for more than 3 international staffs) and not adding value to the news they repackage (reprinting an AP story a day later is also pretty easy to replicate). That business worked when the value came from being the classified market place, but they have been seriously challenged there, and now need to make news delivery pay or they will effectively die.