Slashdot Mirror
Dell or HP for Small Business?
fruitbane asks: "I work for a medium-sized non-profit, approximately 50 full-time users and 100 desktop PCs. We're redoing all our technology plans and budgeting; that means it's time to pick vendors/brands and stick to them, something we haven't reliably done in the past. Sites like Consumer Reports review various PCs and manufacturers for home users. Are there any comprehensive reviews or advice sources for those trying to determine the best vendor/manufacturer for small business desktops and laptops?"
I have to disagree with you regarding Dell. Just because they sell directly does not mean that support is lacking. If you purchase Gold support on the systems you purchase, Dell sends a technician to your site the next day. Next day service is just as good as you would get from a local shop as they'll likely have to order parts as well (and avoid any shipping costs if applicable). Granted, this won't help you if you have an incompetent sysadmin at your business that cannot troubleshoot issues themselves, but this is more of a question of a reliable vendor and the servicing they offer.
How's Lenovo (owner of IBM's former PC division for those who don't know) hold up nowdays? I've been hearing great things about the ThinkPads (as always), but I've been wondering about their desktops, and the 3000 series (consumer-line) notebooks. Do they share the same reputation as the ThinkPads? First-hand experience welcome
"I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
For auctions, try gsaauctions.gov first. They're government auctions, a lot of 50 pc's in unwarranteed condition will go for around 400 bucks. And if you happen to be in the market for a wwii minesweeper or a helicopeter, well they've got those too.
I think the Acer machines coming preformatted with FAT32 partitions is a minor problem that is easily fixed if NTFS is what you desire. For me, the FAT32 partitions are much easier to oeprate with if you are using non-Microsoft tools to deal with the partitions. Compared to the fact that many other vendors install any number of invasive adware and also unwanted applications on their base installs, and make it hard to create recovery CDs, I much prefer the Acer setup.
Once again, though, I think it's more about the right computer people being able to help you out with your problems is really more important than the brand that happens to be on your system.
These are the good old days you'll be telling your children about. Make them worthwhile.
Since there appears to be some trouble with the question, let me clarify. We already have a lot of machines in use. Most of them are Dell, but not all of them. Dell's once great quality and support is now, according to consumer sources (and my own experience with previous workplaces), no better than anyone else's. How does an IT department reliably evaluate the big vendors to determine who's going to go the necessary distance and be a good business partner, especially for a smaller customer?
This doesn't rule out the smaller, local sources, but there can be a longevity issue there, as well as priority. Who says he can be there tomorrow with a replacement part in hand to get you back up and running? Yes, we're trying to save money, but staff time is more expensive than any single technology decision, so Linux and used computers are really not the way to go. We have adequate funding to get what we need, but we have to spend that funding wisely. When trying to standardize the products one uses, for ease of ordering, support, and keeping consumables in stock, making a bad decision can really set back the entire institution. And for that matter, when ordering 100 - 120 computers every 4 year cycle, paying an extra $50-$100 per computer can be worth it if you know you will get reliable, timely, and quality support for a quality product in return.
But how do you predict?
And to the individual who stated technology cycles every 3 years, I think that's a wonderful ideal. On a practical level, however, especially where smaller places with tighter budgets are concerned, a 4 year cycle makes more sense. Also makes it more worth investing a little extra up front.
Every time I go in to do a bit of work at a non-profit or the like that has had the "local guys" do their support and computer sales, I cringe. Most of the time the boxes are pretty much ghetto crap that when I see the invoice, I'm ready to call the cops and report a robbery.
While buying very high end parts makes a good home built PC, no company can make money selling quality components locally and compete with the Dell or HP model. So you are either charging too much to the customer or using substandard/refurbished parts.
Having a local company that does service, that knows what they're doing, well, that's something else entirely.
I provide end user support to a government enterprise running about 1800 PCs. We have a mix of roughly 50/50 Dells and Gateways. I have spent WAY more time on the phone with Dell getting replacement parts, and I have to prove that I have tried everything on their scripts before they will send the parts. Gateway sends out replacements on pretty much a "no questions asked" basis, but I have only had to do that a couple times in two years. I have no idea how our management's purchasing decisions are made, but once the boxes are onsite I would much rather see Gateway.
preformatted with FAT32 partitions is a minor problem that is easily fixed
No, it's not. XP installed directly as NTFS has most of the filesystem security set up properly by defult. If you install to FAT32 then convert to NTFS every single thing on the machine is defaulted to wide open file permissions.
And I'm sorry, but any company that decides to make their LCD monitors cheaper by silently removing half the onboard image memory and simply discarding the additional color bits that the video card sends is not a company I would trust. (If you've ever wondered why they color qulity is so poor on Acer LCDs now you know).
with 50~100 computers.. you can probably have someone on staff that knows a bit about computers... for a 2000~ish bucks you can then get them registered for dell's warrenty parts direct program. Once they are part of the program, they can order parts directly from dell, never haveing to deal with 'phone support'. its an invaluble tool if you need uptime and have someone that knows a bit about comptuers and can use a screwdriver!
experience at 2 companies over the last 4 years with >200 systems per site
Ah, then you probably had a direct corporate account with them. Yes, if you spend enough money you can sometimes get halfway decent service from Dell.
Personally and professionally, I buy from Dell.
Their PowerEdge servers are solid. I've had hundreds, maybe over a thousand, in service over the years and haven't experienced too many problems -- certainly nothing out of the ordinary.
Their Latitude laptops are pretty nice. Maybe not the nicest laptop in the world, all of mine have lasted at least three or four years, not including time spent in friend's and family's hands after I give them away. In service in the corporate environment, again, I've had very few issues.
In terms of service, I've never been disappointed. With Gold support, you get excellent service, IMHO. It does cost a lot, so be sure you need it first. But even with the lowest form of support, I've had decent experiences. Does it take longer to get ahold of someone? Of course. Do I have to wait longer for parts? Yup. But that's what I paid for, and it has never been excessive.
Anyhow, that's my short answer.
robert
Strictly from a support view, I would recommend Dell. Based primarily on my current experience with HP and past experience with Dell. I currently also work for a non-profit, albeit a much larger one. We administrator about 275 servers for school data centers across all of Washington State. I have to call HP support several times a week, and every time I dread it. I get the run around from the 'techs', I am regularly told that our servers are 'not under any warrenty' (I tell them the 300K a month we spend assures me that they are - and usually have to talk to a manger), and of course the language barrier is awful (I believe they are in Costa Rica). Oh and did I mention the voice activated call routing system? That sucks too. It's so NOT fun to have to repeat 'Proliant running Microsoft' out loud into the phone 10 times just to get a human on the phone. Keep in mind we have the *highest* support level offered by HP.
At my last job, I ran a much, much smaller datacenter with only about 6 Dell servers (I use the term data center loosely). There we had what Dell called 'Gold level support'. The fact that I usually spoke with native English speakers was awesome all by itself. But I could usually get a tech on site much faster, and with much less hassle. And we got a direct line to Tier II support.
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
I work for a company with ~200 PCs, across 4 states, all but 11 of which are Dells. I will agree, the phone support isn't the speediest thing in the world, but no worse than other companies I've had to call. The thing that does it for me though is the online chat with Technical Support. I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes to get to someone, and I think the longest chat I've ever had was about 10 minutes, mainly because I had to walk to another part of the office to check something.
The key is to know what the problem is, and know the steps you've already taken to try and fix it. If the power supply is bad, tell them you've tried another power supply in this machine and it works fine. Tell them you've tried this power supply in another machine and it didn't turn on. Pretty cut and dried, you need a new power supply. Then, per your warranty they will either send you a new power supply or send you someone with a power supply to swap it out.
I had an issue with a system critical server that the original purchaser felt only needed next day on-site hardware service. The system board went bad at 10am, and next day wouldn't cut it. The nice tech support person I had called, set up a 4 hour service call for me anyway, and transferred me to some billing department to buy 4 hour response retroactively. I waited on hold for these billing people for about 30 minutes (OK, that bit of the story sucks), but couldn't stand the music any longer and hung up. I went to notify our front desk that a system board and Dell tech would be arriving by 2pm to fix a server for us. The system board had already been delivered, and the tech was about 10 minutes behind. 15 minutes later my server was back up and running, and all my users happy again.
I might be biased, but HP would have to do a lot for me to replace Dell as my hardware manufacturer of choice.