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Dell or HP for Small Business?
fruitbane asks: "I work for a medium-sized non-profit, approximately 50 full-time users and 100 desktop PCs. We're redoing all our technology plans and budgeting; that means it's time to pick vendors/brands and stick to them, something we haven't reliably done in the past. Sites like Consumer Reports review various PCs and manufacturers for home users. Are there any comprehensive reviews or advice sources for those trying to determine the best vendor/manufacturer for small business desktops and laptops?"
How about finding a local computer guy that will help you out?
As a small business computer consultant and a computer repair technician, I think the issue will be more about who can help you with the inevitable problems that will occur when you use the technology in your workplace. Everyone will have their preferences, I know that at our office, we recommend Acer notebook computers and desktops, and our users seem to be happy with the advice. (Incidentally, Acer is #1 in Notebook Computers in Canada, where our office is located).
For us, the important thing is not so much the brand of computers, as each consultant will have his or her own preferences in this area. The key is the business relationship between the person who is fixing your computer and the vendor. As an Acer Authorized Dealer who also has a service relationship, we are often able to order in parts to the store to fix the client computer systems when there are issues. This is quite different from many other computer stores where they may sell the computer to you, but have to send you right back to HP or Toshiba or wherever else for service. As for Dell, the direct sales approach offered by the company means that there is rarely a reliable channel for local support for your hardware, relying instead on centralized phone support that is not always with the same person.
My opinion is that nothing beat having a local reseller to call for service that knows your business and knows your network and knows your hardware, which can help you with your issues and fix your problems.
These are the good old days you'll be telling your children about. Make them worthwhile.
It's all about hardware support.
So try to focus as much as possible on getting the SAME model for everything that is possible (without under-powering something).
Then get a couple of extra hard drives and a spare machine. In case of disaster, just drop in the spare machine or a replacement hard drive.
Otherwise, get on the phone and talk to the vendors about getting a 4 year, overnight replacement warranty on your hardware. Shop around. See what prices you're quoted.
Local sites will PROBABLY not be able to provide that kind of support. That requires a warehouse where you can leave extra parts. So don't expect that. Understand that you'll be storing your own emergency replacements AND spending the weekend getting the replacement server up and running after a disaster. You'll save money up-front AND maybe get some good-will. But you're trading your time for those savings.
If you keep churning the technology on a 3 year basis, you should be good.
If you're looking at 4 years, you're running a bigger risk. It depends upon what you're comfortable with. Hardware can fail at any time.
Of course you need to check them out before you buy them, have a trusted referral or ideally have been buying from them for several years. Their service is light years ahead of the Multinationals. These guys need customers. 'Chandler' who wants 'to provide you with Excellent Service' from some outsourced HP call center on the other hand doesn't care if you live or die.
If you're talking very large orders, say a few thousand PCs, there's are medium-sized businesses who can integrate it for you on a contract. I'd trust an ASUS Motherboard far more than whatever the hell is inside a HP or Dell this week.
I think what you are proposing is a great idea in theory, but it's impossible to predict the future.
I know of a number of organizations that were bit by the Dell Inspiron 1100/1150/5100/5100/5160 systems. (As someone that works day-to-day with fixing notebook computers, we run into a lot of these systems). These systems have a great deal of problems, from motherboard issues and overheating to physical problems with the design. The issues are serious and with some models these issues lead users to launch a class action lawsuit against Dell. If you look back, these machines were quite well recommended at the time, and looking at the specifications they were a good buy. Who knew that they would have so many issues? Buying HP or Dell does't mean that you won't have any problems. More and more, major brand systems are manufactured by third party Original Design Manufacturers (ODMs) that are in the business to build computers as quickly and as cheaply as possible. Buying a big brand is not always a sure sign of better quality and better value.
On another note: I think the 3 year cycle is a function of the manfacturers themselves and their planning. We have in the shop right now a notebook computer from HP with a broken hinge problem. The computer is just over 3 years old. HP says the part is not orderable, and there is no replacement part available. Now, everyone orders the same parts from the same place at HP, and we are all in the same boat as HP internally as far as the availability for these parts is concerned. We will now be looking into the third party sources for the part to help the customer. I don't think that anyone 3 years ago would have been able to predict that this would be the case, but it's not an uncommon problem, especially with notebook computers.
Once again, I think that dealing with a local supplier that you know can be the difference between making a good decision and a bad one. For those systems that had a problem, our relationship with the supplier allowed us to help the client to fix the problem, and advocate on their behalf to come to a resolution.
These are the good old days you'll be telling your children about. Make them worthwhile.
HP for servers. Always. Sun has bid a few times, but they are consistently (and drastically) higher priced. The HP kit is rock solid!
Dell for desktops. I hear some say to buy local -- I don't like that. Locals keep changing shit up. You may get one motherboard one day, and a different one another day. Do you really have time to corral the local boys who throw these boxes together from the cheapest rickshaw parts they can find? I sure don't. Now, Dell does get stuff from the lowest bidder as well, but at least with Dell I know that my configuration will not change. I'll get the same config and the same install CD will work with them regardless of any internal changes. It's a whole hell of a lot less headache! (I used to recommend whitebox as well until I got into a Director of IT position... Dude, trust me; you really do NOT want to have to deal with crappy local integrators EVER.)
I use OpenBSD for firewalls. They work great with our OC3.
I use HP ProCurve for networking. We do have some Netgears to support our office here and there.
I use EMC for SAN.
I use Qlogic for storage fabrics and HBAs.
Seriously. The systems are exactly custom-ordered, they have better online documentation (including tear-down instructions for field replacement) and there hasn't been any hardware problems as of late.
HP, however, has a ton of problems it needs to resolve. It's site is counter-intuitive, both on buying a system and getting support for whatever you have. It's offerings are very fixed, even after it borged Compaq. Some offerings have variations that are hard to find, and some even harder to find support to. I hear the customer service isn't worth the phone call.
I'm not sure about Lenovo, since they're owned by the Chinese government. Gateway I haven't heard from, but depending on how hard you're on laptops, maybe Panasonic?
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> ... Dell's once great quality and support is now, according to consumer sources ... no better than anyone else's.
> How does an IT department reliably evaluate the big vendors to determine who's going to go the necessary distance
> and be a good business partner, especially for a smaller customer?
Exactly! Multinationals are focused on the next balance sheet. Once they have the money and you've signed for the boxes, you're a liability. Sure in theory if you like them you might buy something in the future... but that's 3 or 4 years away, waaay beyond the next balance sheet. You're not a 'business partner'.
> This doesn't rule out the smaller, local sources, but there can be a longevity issue there, as well as priority.
> Who says he can be there tomorrow with a replacement part in hand to get you back up and running?
Here I have some wonderful news for you, my friend. Desktops these days are very standard. All the plugs, connectors, memory and cards are interchangable. I have a lovely desktop sitting under my desk. If it dies tomorrow, I can call up my local guy and get a new motherboard for like $70. You can also change suppliers at any time, and we're talking about easy-to-source, mass-produced components. In the bad old days, manufacturers did make keyed connectors that only worked on their machines. IBM even made their HDD cables incompatible with everyone else(!!!) FAIK those days are gone. Certainly hasn't bothered me since I stopped buying IBM brand and went generic.
> Yes, we're trying to save money, but staff time is more expensive than any single technology decision,
> so Linux and used computers are really not the way to go.
Of course for an upgrade to an existing shop, you need to keep all your software talking.
If you were setting up from scratch, Ubuntu may well be the way to go.
> paying an extra $50-$100 per computer can be worth it if you know you will get reliable, timely,
> and quality support for a quality product in return.
This is the misnomer with Multinats, and you basically contradict that above. You note Dell no longer offers the best of anything, so why pay more for it. Same for HP. Pay more, get less. If you think buying a hundred PCs from these guys will give you piece of mind and make you a 'business partner', well, that term was only ever a euphemism. They may be big, but they don't care where you buy your next PC from.
> We have adequate funding to get what we need, but we have to spend that funding wisely.
> When trying to standardize the products one uses, for ease of ordering, support, and
> keeping consumables in stock, making a bad decision can really set back the entire institution.
> And for that matter, when ordering 100 - 120 computers every 4 year cycle,
Obviously you have to plan this carefully, risk management and all, but you should be doing that regardless of who you're ordering from: big, medium or small enterprise. If you're fully funded and you're looking for an external support contract, in which case talk to a medium size integrator. They can do it all for you. If you want to do it in house, competent tech guys and a smaller supplier will be fine.
HP? Dell? Avoid, avoid, avoid.
Find a small or medium sized vendor, preferably headquartered in your area, that carries a good small-name brand, store brand, or whitebox lineup. Ideally you want systems composed entirely of bog-standard interchangeable off-the-shelf hardware components.
In Ohio, for example, there's an outfit called Microcenter, with locations in Columbus and Cleveland. They carry big-name computers like HP and so forth, but they also carry a whitebox brand called PowerSpec. After I discovered this brand we quit buying Dell and HP and so forth where I work.
I got tired of having a computer that's six months out of warrantee have a part go bad (a CD-ROM drive, say) and not being able to replace the part because it was non-standard in some way (e.g., designed to fit behind a non-standard case front). All the big international brands pull those sorts of schenanighans, for no good reason, and it leaves you with computers you can't service the minute they're out of warrantee and therefore must replace entirely when even a cheap component dies. Oops, I can't replace the power supply because it has a special connector for that weird fan in the front of the case. Oops, there's a case fan making a racket and I can't replace it because it has a non-standard mounting form factor. These are the sort of unpleasant surprises you can expect with the big brands. Usually you discover it about two months after the warrantee expires.
Do yourself a favor. Avoid the big international brands that like to have a new non-standard "feature" for each model line. Instead find a brand that uses 100% standard off-the-shelf components.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
That's what I told the admin of our finance network when she started getting in Dell desktops.
Three years later she was saying "You were right". Every model was a unique design, the motherboards, power supply connectors, cases, and everything was designed to force you to replace the computer when you needed to upgrade, to force you to go to Dell for support, and when the warranty runs out you're out of luck.
HP? The HP desktops I've seen have been bog standard ATX cases and motherboards, maintainable and upgradable without HP's help. Much better value.