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Dell Ships Ubuntu 7.04 PCs Today
javipas writes "Today by 4:00 PM CST Dell will start selling three machines with Ubuntu 7.04 pre-installed. The two desktops (XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599) will be the first three machines with the popular Linux distribution installed by default. There is little or no price differential between the Linux and Windows models; in fact, the entry level E520 Windows desktop is cheaper. Dell has announced that they will provide hardware support, and they've created a new site devoted to giving further Linux support and updates. At the moment the offer is only available in the US."
They must be mighty expensive then !
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in. So it costs you negative money at first, but believe me there is a positive cost at the end that more than makes up for it, or else they wouldn't do it. Open source is the same price the whole time: free.
stuff |
Makes sense if you consider the bundled software that comes with Windows that the software manufacturers pay Dell to put on the systems. And if you consider the added cost for supporting a new OS.
.. you've been asking for this for, let me think, for ever.
It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!
Put your money where your mouth is :-)
monk.e.boy
Open source, flash charts
I think for Linux installs they don't get revenue from Symantec's trial of the worst security suite in the world, WildTangent, Office trials, Quicken trials, video game trials, some poker, etc.
So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
I don't see many people buying the more expensive model, just to have Ubuntu pre-installed, except maybe to make a point to Dell (very few will do this). Let's face it, the people who want Ubuntu are pretty likely to just buy the cheaper model and install Ubuntu. This might work in some distant future where people without technical knowledge want Linux, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I'll be happy to be proven wrong by history though.
If nobody buys these, I seriously doubt they'll keep them around. And if Dell drops them due to lack of demand (in real life, not on the Internet), Linux will end up farther from getting on the average person's desktop than before.
Dell pays for Microsoft software just like everybody else. They don't pay very much, but they still pay a little for it. The difference is the 3rd party stuff. The Norton/McAfee third party trials. The AOL links on the desktop. The Nero trials and all the other stuff you either uninstall or wipe with your own installation of XP/what-have-you. *Those* are the sort of things that Dell gets kickbacks on.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
There was a story on Ars Technica a while back (I don't have the link, sorry) where Michael Dell was doing a question and answer session, and someone asked him how much extra they would have to pay to get a PC without "Craplets". The figure he gave was $50 - $60.
Now, I don't know how much Dell pay for a vista license, and I don't suppose we will be finding out any time soon, but if it's less than $50 dollars (which would not be a shock) then the Linux machines being more expensive makes sense. If I had to guess though, I think they will probably sell for the same price as the Windows machines.
"I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
Keep in mind those are the BASE prices.
They are basically the lost leader prices they use to "get you in the door". Once there you can still customize the laptop or desktop with any number of hardware selections, including more RAM, better processor, and larger hard drive. These machines also come with dedicated video cards, as the integrated video isn't supported very well by Ubuntu. So you are STARTING OUT with a better base model than the Windows base model. (Which also explains why the Linux laptop is more expensive than the Windows one.)
My company has been a Dell shop for as long as I have been here, and I've become VERY familiar with Dell's setup. Keep in mind, Dell has been selling "open Source" (Free DOS) Desktops and laptops for YEARS already. Adding Ubuntu isn't THAT much of a change for them. I'd also imagine that you will find that the support package offered by Dell will actually be a Canonical support contract. This was a natural next step for Dell, and I think that all Slashdotters should get behind them. Not just with their words, but with their Dollars. I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months), I'll be going through Dell, and getting an Ubuntu Laptop.
Good on ya' Dell!
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
all true, except the line about photoshop: not to flame about gimp - but it's no photoshop. It's great and all, but (at the moment) it's not even close.
Some day I hope they get there, but that day is not today.
Doolittle :
Bomb no.20 : To explode of course.
And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.
-b.
Not everyone does professional-quality PAPER graphic design. For most Web work, GIMP is just fine.
-b.
You what? I think you will find Dell, HP etc pay MS to have windows on their machines. Where the fuck do you think a large percentage of all that cash MS has came from?
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Retailer has new product and it's not priced dirt bottom. That's news?
It would be silly to introduce a new version of a product and sell it for less than an existing product.
If it were me, I'd start with the price up a little bit for two reasons. 1, less complaining when the price goes down versus up (yes, someone will complain on a price drop!). 2, with a higher price I have a cushion in case these things start selling like hotcakes and the volume murders my margin as I burn resources to keep up.
SOP, nothing to see here.
Anything is possible given time and money.
Unless you are going to be buying a used Mac Powerbook, I doubt that will be happening.
A used notebook is going to be used, abused, and worn out. Even the much-vaunted Thinkpads are not indestructible, and the notebooks that sell at the prices you mention are going to be more than 3 years old, and completely out of date.
I've not found the Dell laptops to be any better or worse than the competition, and I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere I go, so it gets plenty of abuse. It sounds to me like you just have a bug up your butt about Dell. With that I cannot help you, as no matter what I say, your obvious irrational hate of all things Dell will not allow you to take a balanced approach to this issue. It's too bad, because Dell and Ubuntu really do need our support as a community if this is going to work. Trolling Dell for personal reasons just gets in the way.
And before you go off on me as a Dell fanboy, Keep in mind that I was hired into an already established "Dell shop". My company as a long-standing relationship with Dell, and regardless of my personal preferences, Dell is what we use. We have thousands of machines, all Dell, and I have had to work on EVERY ONE of them. I have dealt with Dell support, and I have worked with a Dell Rep. So I'm not just working on the one or two machines owned by family and friends, these boxes are my job to keep running. I have found that duty to be reasonably easy. Yes, we have had our share of lemon machines, but no more than I have run into at other places, with other makes of PC. Dell is no worse or better than any other manufacturer in regards to the general quality of their PCs, excepting perhaps Apple, but those aren't so good in a Windows software programmer shop, so I can't get them.
Dell deserves our support. They listened to their customers, and are giving us what we wanted. They deserve to have this risk rewarded.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
We get a very mixed message. Searching Dell's UK site for 'Ubuntu' brings up this page, but if you go through all the options on the online store, Linux isn't there.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Well, tell ya what - I want Ubuntu, I want it on a laptop, and I think I'm clued up enough (been running linux for years; two Slackware servers and an Ubuntu desktop at home; I switched my work-machine from Windows to Ubuntu and then wrote a guide that nine other colleagues used to do the same).
I'm pretty confident that I've got the skills to buy the Windows machine from Dell, and switch it myself (though no, I wouldn't dual-boot, I have no use for Windows on it). I could probably find the right drivers for the GoofyCool wireless card, get the sleep function working, etc, etc, etc. As I said elsewhere, I've even got the money. So why don't I? To be honest, I really don't have the time. Married, kids, full-time job, plus other responsibilities. Something else would have to suffer - something that (and here I put my geek-card at risk) frankly, is more important than a new toy.
I don't want to shell out a grand or whatever and then have to spend time I don't have to turn the machine into what I actually needed in the first place. There is a time I would have, and would have relished the chance - but that time is long passed.
I'm a reasonably sophisticated Linux user, and even a Linux advocate - but in this case - I'm primarily a consumer with a need and the willingness to pay for it. The guy who offers to fulfill that need, gets the cash.
Running Windows^H^H^H^H^H^H^H OSX and Linux in the home. (I don't have time for Solitaire any more.)
People are funny -- they'll think: isn't that the OS that they put on cheap crappy computers? A lot of people don't differentiate the computer hardware from the OS -- they think of computers as Windows, Macs, or Linuxes.
-b.
How smart of Dell, who will buy Ubuntu computer when he can for the same price have Vista license? You get all the dll files you might need for Wine, W32codecs, etc and can install Ubuntu by yourself since Dell doesn't modify Ubuntu install in any way AFAIK.
Dimenson E520n ranges from $289 - $399 with FreeDOS. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is +$310.
XPS 410 ranges from $899 - $1699 with Vista. Ubuntu base is price is $899.
Inspiron E1505 ranges from $699 - $1,560 with Vista. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is -$100.
I agree, I will not be buying any of these, computers because I do not live in the US. However, I really hope this is a big success and leads to Dell spreading there offers to other models and countries.
Remember, not only does this mean it is easier for new users to have a computer running Linux/ubuntu/GNU/whatever because they know the hardware will be supported and they don't have to install it etc etc etc. It will also mean more extensive hardware support in Linux because hardware manufacturers will have more incentive to create (hopefully unrestricted/free) drivers for their products.
"sudo rm -rf your-face"
In other news, this "coming soon image"u buntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/
used to be kinda different. And I made fun of it over here.
http://a4fs.net/img/lol.htm
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Furthermore, I believe the default config will have integrated video (which has open sourced drivers). You will probably have the option to upgrade to an nvidia card. (But the specs aren't official yet, so this is speculation based on what had been on Dell's wiki & official statements they've made saying they'll use F/OSS drivers.)
At first, the base price may be more expensive than the Windows laptop, but:
In the past, I have proudly emerged from the entrails of my machine saying, "Yesss! What a breakthrough! Am I a geek or what? After countless hours of Googling, downloading drivers, messing with the hardware, and writing my own script files, my computer now finally works properly!" Meanwhile, my wife's machine has worked from the beginning. Well, been there, done that; now I want to move on. I want it to just work.
So, when I tally it up, it's definitely to my self-interest to get the Dellbuntu system, even if it looks more expensive at first.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
It just occurred to me that Microsoft has been accused of abusing their monopoly power by bundling applications with their operating system. E.g., IE versus Netscape, Windows Media Player versus RealPlayer, etc. (For anyone who's not familiar with this idea: Microsoft, due to their operating system monopoly status, has an unfair advantage in the applications market.)
Now, clearly you can build and ship an Ubuntu (or just about any other Linux distribution) machine pre-loaded with tons of free software. And that probably needs to happen to make Linux effective for the "unwashed masses".
But, is it possible for Microsoft to take a look at this, and use it as an excuse to start forcing more 3rd party software developers out of the market? If I remember correctly, Microsoft's defense to the monopoly abuse allegations has always been something like "but these applications are part of the operating system." Dell shipping Ubuntu plus a lot of applications kind of supports Microsoft's claim (in a weird, twisted way, which I'm sure Microsoft's well-paid lawyers could use to their advantage).
it's actually their $950 laptop with a rebate down to $700 for the windows model.
they must be saving a LOT putting OSS on the machine.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
They are basically the lost leader prices they use to "get you in the door".
George W. Bush is a lost leader. Something sold below cost in the hope of selling other things for a profit is a loss leader.
My old laptop is actually 2 1/2 years old. So my old laptop would be the same age as the one he is going to spend $400 on, and I only paid $650 for it new. Sounds like I'm getting the better deal here.
Besides, I've found that the useful life of most laptops is about 3-4 years. After that they start to either have battery issues, Power Adapter problems, loose or sticky lid hinges, worn keys, cracked frames and other component problems that require either repair or costly replacement parts. Not to mention you usually end up immediately investing money in RAM upgrades, as they are always under-RAMmed. You are basically at a point of diminishing returns with older machines like that. You end up paying out as much money to keep the older, slower, worn-out machine going as you would have if you had just ponied up the extra $200 - $300 for a low-end new one with a full warranty and support.
Old machines are fine as free hand-me-downs or when bought in large quantities where a few units can be parts-scavenged to repair other ones, but buying new is almost always the better way to go. Now that Dell is giving us the option for brand new with Linux, there really isn't any excuse other than penny-wise pound-foolishness.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
The Conexant modem works with Ndiswrapper. I have an Inspiron 1200 and has been running Linux on it for years. Everything works.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Windows costs less than free. They have to pay you to take Windows.
Do you really think there's a PC manufacturer out there who wouldn't want to tap into the Wal-Mart distribution channel?
Dell is geared up with the kind of manufacturing capacity to supply systems to Wal-Mart at the ridiculously low prices they demand. Landing a huge sales channel like this is hardly desperation on Dell's part. This is a win for both companies. Maybe even for those of us who buy systems, too.
> So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.
Initially, perhaps. Overall, no. Reason: Security.
What price do you want to put on peoples bank accounts, credit cards, ss#, etc?
One piece of malware and that initial savings turns into a vastly expensive liability.
Phishing is bad enough. Windows helps fill in the gaps.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
> I paid $100 for Windows XP. The Ubantu Dell should cost at lest $100 less than the identical Windows box.
1) Dell doesn't pay the retail cost for Windows.
2) Dell defrays the cost of each PC with the additional software (aka "crapware") that vendors pay to have pre-installed on dell PCs. At the moment, the version of Ubuntu sold with Dell PCs does not include such software...so you are buying a clean PC. Thus, the price comparison noted in the original article is inappropriate. Instead, one should compare the cost of the new Dell Ubuntu models with the cost of their equivalent Windows versions with the dell "clean PC" option...which adds additional expense to the Windows PC.
3) Dell must defray a range of costs associated with these new models, including additional work with OEM vendors for drivers, building a Linux-centric support site, and providing Linux OS phone support...at least with regards to how it relates to the hardware.
4) Most people who will buy one of these models with Ubuntu will most likely not do so to save money. Thus, Dell does not need to offer deep discounts...and this is a free market.
I almost wonder what the point of all this is. Linux fanboys have made such a fuss about Dell and other companies shipping Linux machines, but I find it hard to believe that the "do it yourself" Linux crowd would actually even consider buying a machine that's already been built. The laptop makes sense I guess, but the desktops don't.
Plus, for a group of people that make such a big deal about OS choice, they'd probably be likely to wipe off Ubuntu as soon as possible (if not for a newer version of Ubuntu when it's available or for their distro of choice). So why not just get the desktop with Windows? They're not more expensive, you just have to install Linux versus having it done for you.
Yeah I know, I'm being facetious. I know this is all purely a symbolic thing. A big name company is selling Linux boxes. Woo hoo. And they're going to stop selling these Linux boxes when Linux geeks either don't buy any (because they want to build their own machines) or the Linux geeks who buy one or two boxes just to show support, well, stop buying boxes. No one outside of the Linux world would care about these machines since they can just get one that has Windows for the same price.
My wife use to do response rate modeling for targeted advertising for a credit card company. The response rate is really, really low. You can't afford to pay very much per impression because otherwise, the numbers don't work out. They really don't work out for a Symantec who doesn't know who the buyer is, and there is a pretty good chance that the buyer is already a customer. What Dell ought to do is label certain models as 'Linux certifed' and allow you to buy those machines without Windows and the price of Windows deducted. The *ONLY* reason Dell (or any other Windows OEM) doesn't do this is that Microsoft threatened to retaliate in some way that would increase Dell's price for Windows and or MS Office. We don't know what form that threat took, but I guarantee you that this stupidity was dictated by Microsoft.
Value of including craplets > cost of Windows.
Therefore, there is business case for MS to give away craplet-infested Windows install disks.
I don't know whether to be amused, intrigued, or run screaming in horror.
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
I thought I should hang back and let others do the initial buying, to see how well this works out and whether the hardware crashes and burns. But if everyone did that, then nobody would buy because no one would want to be first. Since I've been looking forward to getting a Linux notebook, I think it should be okay for me to be one of the first "tryer-outers". Also, hopefully this venture of Dell's into Ubuntu will be high-profile enough that if I encounter any problems, I'll scream and shout that I'm going to post about my problems on Slashdot, and then Dell shall suffer the wrath of Slashdot!!</voice> and they'd be more willing to fix it.
In addition to the basic notebook at $599, I decided to upgrade the memory from 512MB to 2GB (+$200), since it's probably the most precious commodity around; if I try to upgrade later, say in 2 years, some new memory standard will probably have come out and I won't be able to find the proper chips.
I figured I'd upgrade the hard drive, too, from 80GB to 160GB. I had thought I would upgrade the 2.5" HDD myself, but it comes with a SATA hard drive, and I've only worked with PATA hard drives[1]. Anyway, that's another +$125 for the HDD upgrade.
My third upgrade is for the DVD burner. The original price comes with a CD burner/DVD-ROM drive, but I've always had problems with Linux and DVD burning --my Kubuntu box has the LITE-ON DVD DL burner, and so far I've had to power up our Win2k box to burn DVD's. For +$40, I'm happy to get the DVD DL burner, and I want to see if K3b will let me burn all 8GB+ onto a DL DVD. Would be sweet if I could.
The only thing I don't like is the screen size. I don't care about widescreen[2], and you can't directly compare diagonal screen sizes of 16:9 (widescreen) screens with 4:3 (conventional) sizes, so I converted. The diagonal of a 16:9 screen is 1.22 times as long as a 12:9 (that is, 4:3) screen for the same height, so I divided the 15.4" diagonal length of the widescreen by 1.22 to get 12.6". So I'm really getting a 12.6" screen, except it's wider. That's tiny. The ThinkPad that my work gives me is 15" (4:3 aspect, same screen height as 18.3" widescreen) and I don't think it's big enough. Well, at least the small screen size makes the laptop smaller and portable.
By the way, what the heck is "TrueLife (glossy)"? I have the option to have it or not have it for my screen, at the same price, but it sounds like a load of MarketSpeak.
So, anyway, here's my system, cut&pasted from the Dell page:
Intel® Pentium® dual-core proc T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB
Ubuntu Edition version 7.04
15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife(TM)(glossy)
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHZ, 2 DIMM
160GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945a/g
1Yr Ltd Warranty and Mail-In Service
Recycling Kit and Plant a Tree for Me
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950
Integrated Audio
Intel Centrino Core Duo Processor
I'll probably sit on this till next week, and then make the purchase.
Any comments? Is this a good deal, or am I being foolish?
I'm experimenting with the Slashdot journal, so maybe I'll post stuff in my journal about how the purchase is going, and I think I can set it up so that people can post comments.
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[1] PATA notebook drives: It's not that I'm afraid of SATA drives; it's that I've been standardizing on PATA 2.5" drives because I have a number of 2.5" notebook enclosures that, for $25, turn the internal notebook HDD into an external USB HDD that fits into my shirt pocket.
[2] widescreen: Please don't give me that crap about "But if you're screen's not wide enough, you don't see the whole movie --it will be chopped off at the left and right sides!" Well, then, just shrink the movie! I don't see anyone ever saying, "You need a 4:3 screen, because your TV show will be chopped off at the top and bottom by a 16:9 screen!"
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
Dell updated the article TFA was based on to correct a pricing typo and someone posted a followup to summarize the corrected price differences.
If the compared boxen are actually equivalently-featured (time will tell) all the linux (suffix "n") versions are $50-$100 lower price than the Windows equivalents:
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way