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Political Ideology in BioShock
An anonymous reader writes "Julian Murdoch at the usually-excellent Gamers With Jobs has a preview of BioShock up today. Far from being a normal piece on the game's graphics and gameplay, it delves deep into designer Ken Levine's attempts to include some extremely complex and controversial political ideologies as the baseline for the title: 'The point of BioShock, the raison d'etre, is really the story, and the messages and intellectual content that Levine tries to deliver as a payload. "Look at Lord of the Rings," he challenges. "Why is Lord of the Rings more interesting than random RPG story number 507? They're exactly the same thing. They have orcs and goblins and demons and trolls. But Lord of the Rings is a meditation on power. And it's really interesting because of that. It's what gives it it's heart." And with undenied hubris, Levine's trying to do the same thing with BioShock.'"
So, like. You can vote republican AND rape little girl like aliens?
Wonder how many people will get "offended" if the games political ideology is different then theirs? For a 100% fictitious example: Someone plays GTA 37 and kills hookers and has no problems. Burns people and runs them over, again no problems. Their in game girlfriend gets an abortion, or says the like democrat / republican, or says the world is more than 6000 years old...all hell breaks loose.
...welcome our new underwater overlords.
Anyway, I have been following the development of this game...it looks like it should be quite interesting, especially if the gameplay videos that were released on LIVE are indicative of the general direction of gameplay...yes, it was just a demo and is of footage that is not nearly complete, but still....I think Bioshock will be one of "the games to play" in 2007.
I also predict that it will become another Okami. Beautiful, fantastic, unknown.
Living With a Nerd
does anyone feel that bioshock (for as great as the system shock games were), comparing itself to one of the great stories of the last century kind of like a high school baseball player comparing himself to babe ruth?
It may be, but Tolkien hated allegory, and any comparison of lotr to ww2, ww1 or Europe at the time of the writing would come up seriously lacking. In fact, he writes about broader, more applicable things, power, nature vs destruction, hobbits, but politics? If lotr was about politics, it wouldn't have been made into movies nearly 45 years after it was published in complete form. The crucible was about politics, but instead of movies, they read it in highschool to explain McCarthyism and to explain why paranoia is bad.
Summary Recap: LOTR was not about politics, it was not an allegory. Anyone who says different should read the introduction to the book, written by Tolkien himself.
Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
If you have missed is, this game is made by many of the people behind horror classics System Shock/System Shock 2. It is my most anticipated game this year. I've actually stopped reading about it though, articles contain too many spoilers these days. However, if you liked the 40s-50s vibe of Fallout artwork, check out the great art deco posters in the game.
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
. . . will it run on my computer!?!
The article mentions use of the Quake 3 graphics engine. Are there any games currently out that use this system? They might help estimate the sytem reqs for BioShock.
By the way, people keep comparing this game to System Shock. I don't know much about that, but BioShock does remind me of Deus Ex. Different background themes certainly, but Deus Ex gameplay was driven by character customization choices and those plasmids sound similar.
Frankly I'm sick and tired of shooting Germans or aliens but I'm not tired of playing FPS games. I really hope that there are more games that are more adventurous and take on more imaginative themes. For example instead of having yet another game about a group of white soldiers in WWII, why not take one step outside and make it about one of the groups of African-American soldiers? Why not make it that you are a French citizen (maybe even a woman!) in occupied France? How about making the movie Glory into a game (or maybe not the movie since it was inspired by some real events) or how about a game like Thief that relies on hiding and stealth and if you try to attack someone you get killed or attract the attention of a bunch of people. Now imagine that the main character is an escaping slave. I'd much rather play those kinds of games than yet another WWII shooter featuring white soldiers killing Germans.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
I rarely post b/c, for the last 5 yrs that I've frequented Slashdot I've been too lazy to get an account and for the most part I just enjoy what you guys say, but I've gotta add some input here. For a split second the summary made me really interested in Bioshock. Then he claimed that the Lord of the Rings was a meaningful story. I like the Lord of the Rings as much as the next geek, but I also know a bit about literature and I understand that there is no hidden message. It is NOT a mediation on power, and this is underscored by the fact that Frodo is so weak. Unlike Bilbo, Frodo rarely used the power of the ring, and when he did he just endangered himself. The most powerful characters in the series were the antagonists, and like any run of the mill adventure tale, it's about the weaker good guys standing together to take on the more powerful evil nemesis. If you think Tolkien had a point other than using writing as a primitive form of World of Warcraft then you gotta be chasing the dragon more than Tolkien himself.
My question is, if this guy so grossly misinterpreted such a well known trilogy as Lord of the Rings, what makes him capable of crafting a meaningful storyline? If these video games want to compete on an artistic level they're going to have to hire writers such as Michael Crighton, William Gibson, or Alex Garland (first rendition of the Halo movie doesn't count). Anyway, just my 2 as a college kid working on his English degree.
Oh, and after reading the article, expressing political ideas through a negative utopia was outdated when Orwell did it. . . Furthermore, I'll believe the game translates objectivist ideas when I see it. Just because the creator has this in mind while he creates the game doesn't mean that it's commnunicated within the story. To me, this guy sounds very Molyneuxish - impractical big ideas. Lets hope he proves me wrong, but considering that I'm at odds with objectivism and I don't understand how it could be coherently examined within a video game, my pessimism persists.
Well, let's put it this way: it also tells you that people are looking for _entertainment_, not for a lopsided lecture in why you should vote for the republicans in the next elections.
I'll even go ahead and say that I'm one of those who _will_ choose to ignore the ideology bullshit, because the alternative would be to actually get annoyed that some idiot lectures me in his half-baked misunderstood ideology. And I'll even tell you why.
1. Because, as I was saying, I'm looking for some simple, sanitized entertainment. I use my brains enough at for other stuff, I have plenty of _real_ stuff to worry about, I don't want games too to be a stress factor and a guilt trip. When I play a game, I want my decisions to be simple no-RL-consequences stuff like "do I look for the princess in the blue castle or the red castle first", not stuff like "damn, should I vote for the left or the right in the next RL election."
And when I'm done with the game, I want to be done with it, to have no more worries following me to bed. Sure, I might still have to find that princess in another castle, or I might have chosen to join the evil empire instead of the rebels, but that's game-only stuff that doesn't carry any consequences or lessons to the real world. It's just a game, it's just a meaningless scenario invented just for that quest, it can be quickly forgotten when I turn the computer off. The _last_ thing I'd want when I turn the computer off is to be followed by some moralizing bullshit or guilt, like, "damn, the game just told me that I should be ashamed for working for this company/country/party and that people like me are to blame for the global warming."
2. There are already plenty of PR hacks and politicians and journos peddling their ideology to me. In fact, there are entirely too many.
I need some time off from all that lopsided reporting and outright PR bullshit. I _don't_ need yet another wannabe Goebbels trying to peddle his ideology to me even when I'm just playing a computer game. Fuck off already, really. If I wanted more dogma, I'd have bought a party's newspapers, not bought a computer game.
3. Just because every barber and taxi driver can talk at length about "what should the government" do, it doesn't mean that they actually have any fucking clue what they're talking about. Most of their "common sense" solutions wouldn't even work. Most are based on pure ignorance of how things really work, and/or on mis-conceptions and false assumptions. And the same applies to game designers. Unless you're an economist or have a degree in political science, don't kid yourself, chances are that you don't know jack about how it really works.
Real politics are a damn complex thing, and the economics that underpins some of those decisions and issues are even more complex and problematic. There is almost _never_ a free meal, and no real win-win scenario. To get X you pay with Y, and the best you can hope for is the least crappy compromise where the costs doesn't out-weigh the gains. There is no easy "just push this button to win" strategy, or someone would have done it already.
Some things can't even be solved at the same time (but politicians will promise to anyway), because they're interdependent and pushing one down will automatically cause the other to rise. E.g., inflation and unemployment.
Basically: stick to what you know, really. If you're a game designer, stick to making games, not to politics lectures. Unless you have a degree in either economics or politics, chances are you don't even know what you're talking about.
And _especially_ I don't want to see another retarded economic "solution" from someone who hasn't even heard of keynesian economics. (Which is how the economy of all countries has worked ever since the Great Depression, and why we don't have the crisis and bankruptcy cycles that were the _norm_ in the 19'th century.) Even you don't
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I'm really not sure if this is going to be awesome or awesomely overhyped.
Generally, I don't like it when games intend a 'message' with their mechanics. I understand that the settings are incredibly beautiful and detailed, but having an artist spend 4 hours texturing a model for a future-retro art deco faucet doesn't have anything, really, to do with it being a good GAME.
I'd be interested to hear less about the physics and setting (ho-hum), and more about whatever sort of faction-system architecture that would have to underpin such a non-linear, freeform game. Is it a simple matrix, some of which are zero-sum (ie go up with Faction 1, go down with Faction 2) and some are related (go up with faction 1 by 10 points, this means you also go up in Faction 2 by 2 points)? Do the faction relationships change over time? Can the player's actions move factions' opinions of each other? Does the player's actions affect everyone in the faction instantly, or is there a communication lag before 'everyone' knows? Does the character build reputation? Do the character's actions only have an effect if they are observed? I mean, if the player wastes a Little Sister and her Big Daddy instantly, and then gets away unobserved, does that impact his rep?
How will the player accomplish anything - will it be MMOG sorts of quest givers with specific tasks that the player can accomplish? Can the player develop allies, ala HL2? What can they do?
Sorry, but all I've seen are some pretty pics, and a few *VERY* setpiece combats and tactics. Set the bear on fire and toss it at the big daddy? That's only novel the first time you see it - this is the 2nd for me, which makes it seem less like an 'example of free form use of the environment' than a narrowly-scripted "thing" that the game's programmed to allow you to do.
How about something different in the demos? How about breaking a bottle from the bar, and then lighting that pool of alcohol to separate a little sister from her big daddy?
Right now I'm only allowing myself about 4 of 10 on the "hopefulness" meter for this one. I hope like hell it's going to be SS2 writ new. I'm more afraid of Daikatana or American McGee's "Alice".
-Styopa
I found this really funny: These plasmids let you modify and slowly build your character in a way not-dissimilar to an RPG. But don't tell Ken that. "This is not an RPG," he demands. "It's not about stats. This is about huge amounts of dynamic exciting player expression
Well having just watched a documentary on how the US spends billions on helicopters to spread herbicide on Columbia instead of treatment for addicts, a plan for the 'drug war' that even the conservative Rand corporation said was the most economically inefficient and in reality the most ineffective, (not to mention very unhealthy for the people we're spraying that crap on) but done anyway for nothing other than military contractor and chemical corporation greed, I resent that remark slightly. I also know a thing or 2 about Guatemala, Nicaragua and Chiapas, let alone the fucked up policies in the middle east and the spoon fed BS terrorism threat that the current regime is using to bamboozle the stupid with. I know the feeling of being overwhelmed with the evils of greed and power creating worldwide misery that I feel too insignificant to do anything about, but that doesn't mean that a good Utopia gone wrong story involving people and their twisted political ideals turning paradise into smoking ruins will turn me off. Its just the opposite, I think if this clues one uninformed gaming idiot into thinking about broader issues than the tired old 'fighting the alien menace with buffed out space marines' then I say there should be more of it. I'm kind of surprised that someone like you would cringe away from such a thing, but you must have not really read the article or ever played the Shock games, its not about giving you some hippy dippy notion about how we can all get along, its about giving you a thought provoking story amid the same kind of power struggles and real problems that people face in the real word, even if it is set on some spaceship or underwater facility. I do think a hell of a lot about the things going on in this word, and the absolutely brain sucking moronic state of the whole entertainment industry is not helping, and its certainly not entertaining to me.