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Vista Media Center Plus CableCard Equals No TV
notthatwillsmith writes "ATI's internal CableCard readers are finally available, and Maximum PC got hands-on time with a couple of Vista-powered systems built using the FCC-mandated technology. The short version? It doesn't work. From the article: 'The tech told me he'd receive training direct from Microsoft, but none of it covered internal tuners. We both agreed that the process should be the same, since the only difference is that the slots are inside the case, versus in an external box. The tech then proceeds to install the CableCards, connect the tuners to coax line, fire up the PC, and begin the software configuration. This step involves activating the TV Wonder with a product-activation code, and calling the Comcast office to exchange some information. We should have had a picture at this point, but we didn't.'"
With the HDHomeRun you can watch/record the unencrypted channels on digital cable:n
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http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/products/hdhomeru
Two tuners and plugs into your Ethernet network. You can watch content from any computer on your network.
Works with MCE 2005 and Vista MCE - both 32 and 64-bit versions.
Works with SageTV, BeyondTV, etc.
Works with MythTV under Linux.
Mac support is rumored to be coming soon.
Linux review:
http://servers.linux.com/servers/07/04/18/1531247
Actually, it ALLOWS you to view shows on your computer. It's a spec for doing away with set top boxes and the like. With a Cable Card ready TV, you wouldn't need a set top box, you just plug the card into the TV. They also work with computers and other equipment. Try the Cable Card wiki page for more info.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Cable cards are horribly problematic. They were forced upon the cable companies and if you need one it means you're not renting equipment from the cable company. They really don't give a shit if it's a pain in your ass, because it lets them say "well, our cable-box/DVR/whatever never has these problems".
In three months, I've had 5 or 6 different cable cards in my Series 3 Tivo. Only one has worked the whole time (it's got a dual-tuner, so it needs two). Some never worked at all; others refused to unlock the premium channels I'm paying for; still others have been fine for a few weeks then suddenly stopped working.
For once I'm willing to give MS the benefit of the doubt and assume that the problem is Comcast and the crappy cable cards their cartel has concocted.
I've had very few problems with two Cablecards in my Tivo Series 3. The one time a Tivo upgrade caused a problem, I called Comcast and they sent the appropriate signals down the wire to re-enable the cards again. I'm not a big fan of Comcast, but in my area, they've been handling Cablecards very well.
RTFA. The comcast tech couldn't figure out what was wrong, neither could his home base, and neither could the relevant people at microsoft who should have been able to. If the cable industry makes it this difficult to watch tv on your computer, I'd be inclined to agree with you about the writing being on the wall. However, this is still very nichey stuff. once their revenue stream truly becomes endangered, I'd wager that things will mysteriously become easier.
I bought a Cable Card-ready Sony TV a few years ago with the idea that I would rent a Cable Card from Time Warner Cable so I could watch HD channels. Once the Time Warner Cable installation tech got the Cable Card working in my TV, he bolted out the door. About six hours later, the picture turned black and I could no longer receive encrypted channels. When I called Time Warner Cable's support, the support person first sent a "reset" to my TV but that didn't work. Then I was advised to turn the TV off and then unplug the set from the power outlet for ten minutes. That didn't fix the problem.
I had Time Warner Cables techs come to my house a few more times with replacement Cable Cards but they could never resolve the problem. They gave up and blamed the problem on my TV. They said the TV needed a firmware upgrade (I didn't even know my TV had upgradeable firmware!). I contacted a local home theater company and they sent one of their techs to my house to upgrade my TV's firmware.
After that upgrade, Time Warner Cable tried again but could not get the Cable Card to work. The TWC person at my house was on the phone with someone at the "head end" trying to get advice on how to fix this problem. Despite digging through some very cool diagnostic screens on my TV and trying every option available, Time Warner Cable never did the Cable Card to work in my TV.
I gave up and called TWC to let them know I would be bringing their card back.
For all of its hype, Cable Card definitely sucked donkey balls. I have a very nice Sony HD set that is supposedly "Cable Card ready" but the Cable Card just didn't work reliably. It's too bad. The time that I did get to watch channels like Discovery HD was very cool.
That was a couple of summers ago. I haven't had the time to see if TWC here in Milwaukee has figured-out the mysteries of the Cable Card.
They have gone to great lengths to prevent direct digital stream ripping of "premium" content. There are a number of ways to get a direct stream of non-premium content.
You could get an HDHomeRun. These are very nice little boxes that output a direct stream via ethernet. They can recieve both digital cable, and over-the-air digital broadcasts. They cannot decrypt premium content.
Another avenue of getting a direct stream is firewire. Your cable company can give you (FCC mandated!) a cable box that outputs the digital stream to your pc via firewire. You can normally even use this interface to change channels. Of course, when watching any premium content, firewire is disabled.
There are CableCard TV tuners for PC's as mentioned in this article. They can both receive AND decrypt digital cable. They will not work in anything but Vista (if at all), and the software is designed to allow you to view, but not record premium digital content.
So, you can upgrade to a digital tuner, and rip the streams directly to your HD, but you are not going to be able to record much that makes it worthwhile (Unless you're a sports fan). The best bet for getting ALL channels on your PC is still the analog hole. Yes, you're stuck re-encoding the video, but most capture cards do a great job of this. HD can be a bit tough to do, but it can be done.
As far as changing channels on your cable box, google up "IR blaster". Allows your PC to be a universal remote control.
Could it be that this product was pushed out the door without sufficient testing with different cable cards, cable systems and all the silly things that cable companies are doing just to be different? Naa. Has to be Microsoft.
It WAS NOT THE CARDS. They were tested before they left the shop and tested AOK.
Did you read the fine hands free phone conversation between the M$ tech and the cable guy? We can count the ways they lie to everyone. First, they sent a ringer - an experienced tech with inside contacts at M$ but they forgot to tell that inside contact in advance. Let's quote the fun that follows:
Translation: We lie to reviewers and send them out special equipment so that everyone gets a more favorable impression than they will if they actually buy the product.
Translation: They don't work but we are going to sell them anyway. The first tech wisely wants nothing further to do with this call and pushes it up to a second, who was not there, and third person you and I would never get to talk to, even if we spend $7,000 on a maximum rippoff, hi-death Tivo. The embarrassment mounts as two of them sit broken.
Things only go downhill from there. One of the cards had been "qualified" by the beast but neither worked. The tech devolves into typing "Microsoft-proprietary information" on a command line, a command so complex it had to be emailed but could not be shared with customer. After four hours, the tech gives up. The next day does not go much better.
Still, this represents a best case scenerio. How many of us will get a M$ or vendor Product Manager's email to make this thing work?
An bonus funny was the secret command:
c:/windows/ehome/ehribjob.exe \OCURNregister
Is this guy a Linux user or what?
Oh how I love Vista and digital restrictions. It does not get any worse than this.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
To everyone who complains about the command being in the wrong syntax (C:/ehome/ versus C:\ehome\)
/windows/system32
Go to your command line. Start>Run>CMD
> cd \
> cd
See where you end up.
Now, try
> c:/windows/system32/dxdiag.exe
Windows CLI takes paths in both formats.
It always seems like that, so I'll add my two cents. Comcast showed up and put two cablecards in my Tivo, and 15 minutes later (mostly the tech waiting for the head-end activation on the phone) it was up and running. No trouble since.
I wouldn't be surprised if the cable company itself could not reset them and they had to be sent back to the supplier to maximize DRM protection.
It makes you wonder whether the "flakiness" reputation actually originated from people performing such testing.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Task: Make a SanDisk multi card reader work under Linux and Windows. Same machine dual-booting between XP Pro SP2 and Fedora Core 6.
Fedora:
Boot and login
Plug card reader in
Wait a few seconds
A nice little window that has the files on the MMC/CF/MemoryStick appears on the desktop
Done.
so, bzzt. Try again. I've got a Lexar multi-reader that I've used for every format under the sun and FC 5, 6 and 7 all work great.
Depending on what hardware you try, you could end up mucking about on google groups under windows for why a seemingly simple, universal device like a multi-reader still shows up as "Unknown Device" or why "Windows could not find a driver for your hardware, please contact the manufacturer". The same is true of Linux and Windows- buy non-cheapie hardware and it'll be more likely work.
The problem (that a few people have realized) is that the technician tested the cards first. Because of this operation they were inseperably paired with the device used to test them.
Without knowing that and resetting this pairing nothing that could be done would force the cards to work in the PC. It has nothing to do with the new hardware, the operating system or anything else. Simple matter is these are complex devices interfacing with even more complex systems. And the supposedly knowledgeable technician didn't understand this restriction.
Unfortunately, the article makes it appear that the technician was knowlegeable and should have been able to solve the problem. In reality the inexperienced technican created the problem and insured the installation would fail by testing the cards.
Ah, you poor bastards in the US...
I have cogeco cable here in canada, and NONE of the channels, regular, HD or PPV/Premium have the Record-blocking Flag enabled. Also, for the record the Motorola DCT-6412 I have has 2 firewire ports and I assure you i can use both to record to 2 different computers at the same time.
Technicians can test cards all the want before bringing them to the customer site.
The bonding actually occurs at the head end, not in the card.
They have to call up and give the head end reps the device ID and card ID so that the system can start transmitting the correct key stream with which the card will be able to decrypt and use to get at the symmetric content keys.
The cards themselves can be tested in a sandbox environment where the technician can control the encryption process, registration in the sandbox, and then verify the decryption.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Typical Slashdot Microsoft bashing.
Isn't it the cable companies, or whoever they had design the cards, who came up with the pairing thing? Complain about them, not Microsoft.
At least do a little research on the topic. Microsoft has no interest in seeing it locked down. It's cable labs who have requirements that pretty much lock out things like open source use of a cable card and most 3rd paty use to boot. You must be able to certify that there's no way for a user to gain access to the decrypted stream.