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Verizon Accused of Slighting Copper Infrastructure

High Fibre writes "Regulatory hearings in Virginia raise questions about Verizon's stewardship of its copper infrastructure, with workers accusing the telecom of cheaping out on maintenance in Virginia due to its preoccupation with its FiOS network. Ars covers the fracas and gives more time to Verizon than the local media do. From Ars: 'During testimony given before the Virginia State Corporation Commission last week... workers painted a dire picture of the state of Verizon's copper network, saying that the equipment required to make repairs — including tools and cable — is not even available.' Verizon disagrees, saying that while it's a challenge to manage and maintain both networks, they are not neglecting their copper infrastructure." A union official gave written testimony about the Verizon problems, presumably so that individual workers would not have to testify in public and open themselves to retribution.

20 of 249 comments (clear)

  1. I would suspect Verizon normally... by mi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But I suspect unions even more. Most likely, they are concerned about the jobs of their members, who maintain the copper networks.

    A union official gave written testimony about the Verizon problems

    My guess is, those involved with FIOS are either non-unionized at all, or are much younger and thus not as dear to the union bosses.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:I would suspect Verizon normally... by ryanov · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I love how anyone who's in a union is automatically questionable when they make a statement. I'm a union official myself, and I am very honest about things that are happening in my workplace. Verizon I /know/ never took great care of their copper network anyway... it was always pulling teeth the get them to fix noise on a line (which mattered even more on a line with DSL).

      I don't know where all the anti-union rhetoric comes from, but I suspect it comes from unions having better contracts with better benefits, and then the general public getting pissed when unions fight to keep what they have. That, and FOX News and the like. I resent the bullshit, and I suggest that it's completely uninformed tripe.

    2. Re:I would suspect Verizon normally... by Knara · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From a few links in the Ars Technica posting of this story, this seems to be essentially correct. The Telecom worker union does copper (and the workflow involves 4 of their workers at different levels to provision/change lines), while the fibre workers, while unionized (apparently), are a different union group, with a different job description/position, and involves less workers for provisioning.

    3. Re:I would suspect Verizon normally... by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know where all the anti-union rhetoric comes from, but I suspect it comes from unions having better contracts with better benefits

      It's because Unions reward mediocrity.

      I know someone who left here to go work in a union shop. He ended up coming back because the idiot who couldn't do shit and has a whopping year's seniority can't be fired (even though he is useless) so an idiot who doesn't do shit makes more than he was going to, ever.

      It's also because unions are often famously controlled by organized crime.

      Basically, there were two ways we could have gone to protect the rights of workers; co-ops and unions. But it's too hard to take over, control, and wield the power of a co-op, so unions it is.

      I'll take you seriously when you're working for a democratic co-op. Unions are parasitic. They are better for the individual worker, but worse for the economy; co-ops would have been better for everyone but we're not there and probably never will be.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:I would suspect Verizon normally... by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For me personally, it is a friend whose family was threatened because he didn't use union laborers. After the brick through the window, he relented and hired a waste of life to stand there and do nothing, just so he could say he'd hired union. After that, the threats stopped.

      I'm not accusing you of such tactics, but don't deny that unions are full of thugs.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:I would suspect Verizon normally... by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is my opinion that unions have lost their purpose. Back before we had labour laws, employers could push unsafe working conditions on people, withhold pay, and fire them without severance. These kinds of things don't happen any more, or when they do, there's legal actions that can be taken against the company. The only thing unions currently accomplish is to set the salaries too high, and make it impossible to fire anybody, even when they do a bad job. Look at any unionized organization and you will see evidence of this. I haven't seen a union that doesn't abuse it's position.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    6. Re:I would suspect Verizon normally... by dreamchaser · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're absolutely correct. I could go on for *pages* about the excesses and outright bad behavior I've seen excused by union members because they could, not to mention the tremendous cost they've inflicted on our economy. They were a necessary thing at one time, but they have not become power centers of their own right, generally run by corrupt individuals.

      Mod us all offtopic, although I'd submit that the premise of not trusting the union rep automagically is very much on topic.

    7. Re:I would suspect Verizon normally... by Reaperducer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That, and FOX News and the like.
      Umm... you apparently don't realize that most Fox News employees are union members (AFTRA, IBEW, etc...), including the million-dollar anchors.
      --
      -- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
    8. Re:I would suspect Verizon normally... by ryanov · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am in IT and in a union/am a union rep. It is in my job description to occasionally work after hours/participate in the on-call rotation. Guess what -- I'm not paid for it. Until the union wins its fight on that front, I'm not GOING to be paid for it either. Those above my boss have spoken and said that their policy is to do as little as they can with the current contract and they're sticking by it. Fine, that works, but if I had no union, I'd have NO way to change that.

      As for your other specific scenarios: Meltdown at night? Someone should be responsible for the equipment at night, in a rotation or something. If there is no policy on that, management is asinine. In my particular shop, we occasionally do things for each other too (I'll go in one night when it's really another guy's responsibility 'cuz I happened to have no plans and he did). Just being in a union doesn't mean that stuff doesn't happen. The major financials thing? Why does that company have ONE person qualified to do that job? What if that guy gets sick, hit by a bus... whatever? If a business needs to have a union contract be the one to tell them that zero redundancy is a dumbass idea, so be it. I'd personally go back to work from a coffee break if there was an emergency, but that is my choice to do so. What's to stop management from taking the next step and saying, listen, you can't really go on coffee breaks -- who knows what might happen if you leave for a few mins?

      The harddisk thing? Again... if your company is too retarded not to properly staff for all hours, how is that the employee's fault? Where does that end without unions -- may as well have the one guy work whenever, since he is technically qualified to do so. Moving the computer? That provision is in there so that management can't say "fuck it, why have movers, you know how to move shit, right? I know you're doing the rest of your job, but put on your moving clothes. No, you aren't getting paid extra to do two jobs."

      I really don't have a problem with my management. They are fair, give comp days for off-hours time spent working, etc. Plenty of departments in my company are NOT fair though, which proves to me why this stuff needs to be organized and in the contract. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a good boss.

  2. fix the old or install the new by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Verizon more likely wants to dump the copper and go with FOIS to all.

  3. Verizion's actions not suprising... by mollog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am one of many who are not at all happy about the quality, level, and cost of telephony and digital access. I think our government has corrupted itself with the granting and enforcing of monopolies in this area. The access providers are screwing us and we have a third world infrastructure. It was inevitable that Verizion would skimp on copper to fund their build-out of FIOS. The suprise is that so few people seem to care, or even know, how badly we're being screwed.

    --
    Best regards.
  4. Re:Yes by ryanov · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You give customers what they pay for or you don't expand. I have to pay the whole bill, why shouldn't Verizon have to provide me with the full amount of service I pay for?

  5. Verizon copper was always bad. (Old GTE crap) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Not news...

    A lot of Verizon's copper is from the old GTE and that was horrible 30 years ago.

  6. From a Virginian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I live in Vienna, VA and we had a line that would completely drop out for a day or two after it rained, and the line was also noisy at other times. Verizon would take days to come out the check it, and said that even though they could detect no carrier they couldn't fix it unless it was not working when they actually were out there. On top of that, after the first couple of times coming out the guy basically told us they were going to have to re-run the cable to the house and there was basically no chance of that ever happening.

    Oh and they wouldn't give us credit for any of the downtime. So we canceled our land line and they can go to hell and die as far as I am concerned.

    1. Re:From a Virginian by rawbits · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I moved to Richmond, Virginia last summer. I lived in an apartment for 6 months, where I had DSL from Verizon. I bought a house and moved two miles, into an older middle class neighborhood. DSL is now out of the question (digital loop doohicky in the way, even though this is right next to a big commercial area and lots of well-off neighborhoods). Comcast is the only wired alternative, and it costs twice as much as DSL used to. So I'm left choosing between dial-up and some raggedy startup wireless broadband service...

      As for the FIOS, one of my neighbors from my previous apartment was sharing a place with three of his friends: they were from El Salvador, and they were here working (legally) for a Verizon sub-sub-sub-contractor digging trenches for the fiber optics cables. He got crushed when a backhoe slid into the ditch and pinned him. He was airlifted to the hospital, in intensive care for three days, and out of work for two months. His church friends were working with a lawyer to sue for some kind of compensation, since his employer was arguing that he should have to pay the hospital bill himself ($47,000), and meanwhile the employer wasn't paying him a dime in workers compensation, sick leave or anything else. Naturally, Verizon has nothing to do with any of that.

      You can say what you will about unions, but I doubt any union worker would suffer as that guy has.

  7. Valid, I think by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Verizon has been granted a monopoly on copper as long as they serve as a common carrier. If they are diverting funds from maintenance of their common carrier network to installation of selectively-installed FIOS, then they are violating common carrier rules.

    The net effect here is that people in poor areas face degraded service while people in wealthy, high-density areas have enhanced service and options. This is exactly what common carrier status and state funding of telecomm was supposed to avoid.

    Verizon should be forbidden from doing anything other than POTS (and DSL, provided they provide equal access to it, unlike the current situation). Let another company run fiber and operate a network over it, Verizon should not be allowed to run competing services when doing so violates their common carrier status.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  8. No by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem is that they're not just letting copper go by the wayside where they're installing FiOS, they're letting copper go down the tubes (so to speak) everywhere - even where they have no real plans to install fiber. Fiber is expensive and they are cherry picking the hig-density, high disposable income areas. To fund this expansion of service, they are shorting funds to maintain copper to the rest of the area.

    Now, that's all fine and good - I can always switch to any of a number of other telephone carriers who do a better job of maintaining my phone service. Oh, right - I can't because Verizon has a de facto monopoly on telco services in my area - much of it due to government regulation and exclusive rights.

    That's the problem with the infrastructure being run by for-profit corporations - there is effectively no competition. Between rights of way, exclusive rights for areas, and a century of stacked up regulations the barriers to entry are insurmoutable for all but the most dense, wealthy areas of the country. Were I king, I would separate the infrastructure from the services. Sadly, I'm not (as I hear it's good to be the king). It would not solve all the issues, but it would at least start down the road of reducing the anticompetitive behavior of the incumbent utility operators against data (and power) providers which do not own infrastructure.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  9. Re:A union official... by dattaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now there's a knowledgable, unbiased, accurate source. Are contract talks coming up soon?

    I'd trust anyone working out in the field compared to the suit and tie CEO who would could only be dragged into the trenches for photo-ops.

  10. FIOS needs less people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    one of the nice things about FIOS is that it takes a lot less people to maintain. A 2U server running Vovida has the power of a DMS 500 switch at a tiny fraction of the costs.

    Unions hate any efficiency that lets companies do more with less, so they are looking for ways to fight technological progress

  11. Re:Posting my trouble ticket here by genner · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They do if work for a CLEC.