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NC Man Fined For Using Vegetable Oil As Fuel

mdsolar writes "The News and Observer reports on an Charlotte, NC driver who has been fined $1000 for not paying a fuel tax when he fills his tank with vegetable oil. Perhaps the funniest quote is this one: '"With the high cost of fuel right now, the department does recognize that a lot of people are looking for relief," said Reggie Little, assistant director of the motor fuel taxes division. "We're not here to hurt the small guy, we're just trying to make sure that the playing field is level."' Sure, since the field is so plainly tilted against Arab oil interests."

26 of 909 comments (clear)

  1. Biodiesel by narced · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does anyone else get hungry when they smell biodiesel exhaust? Reminds me of McDonald's.

  2. Hell hath NO fury by WCMI92 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Like a woman scorned?

    HARDLY.

    That pales in comparison with the fury of a government that isn't getting it's "cut".

    We truly lost our freedoms when it became accepted that the government has an inalienable right to a "cut" of ALL transactions!

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
    1. Re:Hell hath NO fury by WCMI92 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Normally, I'm against libertarian notions like this, but this is the danger of governments. I mean, the concept is square and solid for businesses dealing in fuels, but what about average joes trying to get by with biodiesel or other forms of power?"

      Presumably taxes were paid on the stuff that made the bio fuel oil in every phase of transaction. The farmer paid taxes, the producer paid taxes, the McDonalds paid taxes, those who bought the fries fried in the oil paid taxes, etc.

      How many times should the government be able to tax one product?

      --
      Corporatism != Free Market
    2. Re:Hell hath NO fury by I_Love_Pocky! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you are missing the point here. All of the taxes you mentioned are different kinds of taxes for different purposes. Fuel taxes in many states are used for transportation costs like road maintenance and public transportation (which in theory reduces traffic). It's like a use tax for the road system. Why should those who choose to pursue alternative fuel sources automatically get an out on paying for the roads they are going to be driving on with that alternative fuel? I could understand a state making the choice to promote alternative fuels by giving them tax breaks, but it seems like a decision that should be made rather than assumed. At the end of the day, there are costs that those taxes are paying, and we should all pay our fair share of it. If you feel like taxes are too high, pressure your legislators to cut taxes, and programs.

    3. Re:Hell hath NO fury by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Trying to tax a product based on how it's used is absurd.

      The correct thing to do here is this: Define the tax to be on gasoline / diesel sales at a gas station. If a significant portion of the population (even a couple percent) decides to get diesel automobiles and buy heating oil to fuel them, then either apply the tax to sales of heating oil too or remove the tax on diesel fuel and create a yearly tax on owning a diesel vehicle. There's no reason to worry about vegetable oil at all - there isn't a large enough supply to matter.

      My point is this: Distributors should be responsible for taxes on products they sell. If a few people get similar products through different channels, that's ok - they may be fringe, or the market may be changing. Once the market has changed, the taxes should be changed to catch up. But fining people for making a non-standard market choice is absurd - in fact, it should be criminal.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  3. Re:Fair enough by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    no, road use is what vehicle rego is for. This is just petty to the fucking extreme. i wonder how in the world he got done for it in the first place, surely not enough people are doing this for the government to have crack down on it to protect their precious taxes.

    this is all besides the fact that why is it anyones business what i use to run my car? am i dodging fuel taxes by using an electic car?

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  4. Re:Fair enough by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Funny
    "illegal for the government to charge more for a service (like vehicle registration) than it actually costs to provide the service"

    You sir, amuse me.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  5. Arab Oil interests? by mr100percent · · Score: 5, Informative
    "Arab Oil interests?"

    That's a cheap shot at Arabs. And untrue. Did you know that the top 2 sources of crude oil are Canada and Mexico? Followed by Saudi Arabia and Venezuela? 3 of the top 4 sources of oil are non-Arab.

  6. bad press for the state itself. by drgonzo59 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    bad press for the state itself.


    So what? The people will move out of the state because of it? Someone who has a good job, children in school and family members will decide to move because the state fined someone $2k for using unauthorized fuel? What else would happen, the state will be ranked last on 'environment friendly states' list? In other words, the state is not the same as a company, a state's bad image is harder to link to immediate loss of profits.

    1. Re:bad press for the state itself. by ultranova · · Score: 5, Funny

      Fortunately, the options people have are a slight bit more subtle than that. There is a middle ground between apathy and packing up and moving out.

      Yeah, you could write a disapproving letter to the state government. That will show them !

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    2. Re:bad press for the state itself. by palewook · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A disapproving letter to a state government in 2007 will only increase the chance you end up on somebody's watch list..

    3. Re:bad press for the state itself. by Anonymous+Cow+herd · · Score: 5, Funny
      The biggest paper "The Charlotte Observer" doesn't carry this type of news.

      Oh really? Better have them yank this then...

      --
      Ita erat quando hic adveni.
  7. Re:So what? It's North Carolina... by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Funny

    Time to get really nervous if you have to push your car...

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  8. Re:Regardless by Original+Replica · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hope he pays in pennies. Dumptrucked to the front steps of the courthouse.

    --
    We are all just people.
  9. No mistake about it. by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're absolutely right. I wish I had mod points, and I wish my friends list weren't limited to 200 names -- you deserve a spot.

    Americans have become so used to their loss of freedoms in day-to-day life, they forget how absolutely invasive and totalitarian their government has become. Want to be innovative with your fuel or save a little money? Big Brother didn't get his cut, so here's a fine for $2000, and if you do it again, we'll toss you in jail as a threat to "society". It's just like the mafia telling the new business owner on the block that he needs to pay a hefty protection fee like his neighbours do, and it would be a shame if someone burnt down his shop otherwise.

    The sad thing is, I fully expect to see many misguided Slashdotters stand up for the state here and defend this ridiculous fine.

    --
    He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
  10. Many states fine you for driving with heating oil by billstewart · · Score: 5, Informative
    While this is the first time I've heard of a fine for using biodiesel, there are a lot of states that will fine businesses and sometimes individuals for using home heating oil instead of regular diesel. It's the same reason - highway taxes - and they don't whine about "level playing fields", they just say they want the money. There isn't much difference between some grades of diesel and heating oil - diesel may or may not have some additives in it, and some states will put colored dye in them so you can tell them apart and bust gas stations that sell heating oil as diesel.


    Back when I lived in New Jersey, I had oil heat, and if I'd forgotten to check the oiltank dipstick in a while and ran out of oil at night, I could get a can of diesel at the gas station to restart my furnace until the oil people could get there. It was really convenient.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  11. Re:Ask a long-haul Trucker about NC taxes! by polar+red · · Score: 5, Insightful

    for doing nothing. Yeah, cuz the state doesn't build roads, right ?
    --
    Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
  12. Re:Many states fine you for driving with heating o by onsblu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Singapore takes a similar approach, however, it is also easier to get by without a car in city-state. American cities could probably benefit from the congestion tax implemented in London, which applies to cars in the city during business hours; I know that NYC is looking into this. One major problem with taxing either gas or cars is that it is a regressive tax. Besides, it doesn't matter just how fuel efficient or expensive a car is, what matters is the emissions created during its use (and production). A carbon tax addresses these issues, because it is intended to be a revenue neutral tax, in which the money that is collected from corporations selling energy of fuels to consumers is returned when consumers file for taxes. This way, individuals can make their own short-term (driving habits) and long-term (car purchases) based on the premise that they can save by cutting down on their carbon emissions. http://www.carbontax.org/ By the way, you can't "really make taxation progressive by taxing the percentage of the vehicle's value to bring in the necessary revenue," because that's the same principal as sales tax which is the primary example of a regressive tax.

  13. Re:Regardless by the_tsi · · Score: 5, Informative

    For those who missed further intricacies of the above joke, (former) NASCAR driver Rusty Wallace (who, along with most other NASCAR teams, is/was headquartered just outside of Charlotte, NC) was fined $5000 for an infraction during a race in 1997. He paid the fine in pennies delivered to the NASCAR officials in an armored truck -- during the next weekend's race, no less, in an attempt to turn it into a PR stunt. (It worked.)

  14. Re:So what? It's North Carolina... by fractoid · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you want to sit I'll tax your seat
    If you take a walk I'll tax your feet...

    --
    Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  15. Re:Ask a long-haul Trucker about NC taxes! by ukyoCE · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IPAFTTS (I programmed a fuel tax tracking system) and this is how it works. The trucking industry is *heavily* regulated. Truckers are required to keep log books recording much of their travels. In the end, it really doesn't matter too much what state you buy gas in - it's just delaying the inevitable. You track how many miles you drive in each state, and pay fuel taxes to each state based on miles. So you can fill up 2 miles over the border in Virginia, but if you drove 1,000 miles in North Carolina this quarter, you're still required to pay North Carolina taxes on those 1,000 miles as if you bought gas there.

    The penalties for not filing your fuel taxes on time every quarter as pretty hefty too.

    Yep, it's a royal pain in the ass.

  16. Re:Many states fine you for driving with heating o by GundamFan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If a state or city institutes a tax on carbon with the expressed purpose of spending the money neutralizing the taxed emissions it won't take long before the governing body is spending those taxes on other budget items or subsidies for large businesses that have no real benefit for the people paying the "carbon tax".

    --
    I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
    Mark Twain
  17. Re:What happens if you buy it from a gas station by nomadic · · Score: 5, Funny

    If one is street legal, fully taxed diesel; how does Johnny Law prove that this guy was running on the untaxed grease at the time of the arrest?

    By the french fry smell.

  18. Re:No, they'll tax your odometer by Like2Byte · · Score: 5, Funny

    Eventually, we are all going to be driving cars that run on something other than gasoline.


    The answer: YABBA DABBA DOOO!

  19. Re:So what? It's North Carolina... by OS24Ever · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually they're looking at taxing per mile with GPS encoders in your car showing how far you drove.

    I believe Oregon has already piloted said program. The problem seems to be as people push for higher per mile return on the fuel it uses their revenues go down. So now they feel they should get a per-mile rate instead of a per-gallon rate.

    I'm a bit surprised this was tagged with humor, as it's not really funny and it's really happening to this guy and sets a precedent for other states to come after all of the folks interested in not burning oil products to make their cars move.

    I'm sure we'll see some asinine proposals to add taxes to wind power generation/solar generation that is done by individuals to live off-grid or to reduce their consumption because once again with the taxes placed on the electrical usage reducing your usage of it via these methods is stripping the state of it's ability to generate revenue.

    Heaven forbid the states actually reduce their output as well. There sure seems to be a lot of waste in government, at least in my experience with seeing the back end of government entities.

    --

    As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.

  20. Re:Many states fine you for driving with heating o by orlanz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So because I am better or more efficient at deriving value out of a service/good, I should be punished more than someone who is less efficient or worse at deriving value from the same service/good? Ok....

    As long as I am not purposely hurting others, at the end of the day, how I derive that value is really irrelavent.

    It isn't a matter of benefit, but rather a personal act of deriving. The former implies the state provides/gives unfairly more value to the rich rather than to the poor (in which case I would agree with you). Which is BS, the state doesn't provide jack. It reallocates while taking its own transaction cost cut and then some. Here, all customers are allocated the same service/good. The later (derives) implies personal action and drive to generate productive value for society from the service/good.

    If the poor guy wanted to derive more value from the infrastructure, then he should strive and struggle to do so (getting a higher paying job being just one of many options).