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Judge Orders FBI to Release Abuse Records

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the watching-the-watchmen dept.

Spamicles writes "A judge has ordered the FBI to release agency records about its abuse of National Security Letters (NSLs) to collect Americans' personal information. The ruling came just a day after the EFF urged the judge to immediately respond in its lawsuit over agency delays. This is the same case in which an internal FBI audit found that the bureau potentially violated the law or agency rules more than 1,000 times while collecting data about domestic phone calls, e-mails and financial transactions in recent years."

19 of 56 comments (clear)

  1. Great! by Sunburnt · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm sure this'll get results. The current executive branch has been pretty respectful of legislative and judicial checks on its power thus far.

    And while I'm at it, I'd really like a pony.

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    1. Re:Great! by bladesjester · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'd say that qualifies more as cynicism than apathy. He's not saying he doesn't care, just that he doesn't think it's going to be actually followed through on.

      Given past practices, I have to say that I agree with that sentiment. I think the chances are good that the administration is just going to ignore the demands.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    2. Re:Great! by Courageous · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Really, I don't understand how the FBI could "ignore" a ruling. I would think that the judge would respond by naming specific individuals at the FBI, like the Director, and holding them in contempt and in jail, in perpetuity, until compliance occurs.

      C//

    3. Re:Great! by soren100 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm sure this'll get results. The current executive branch has been pretty respectful of legislative and judicial checks on its power thus far.


      While the above might seem like cynicism, but the truth is that the FBI has been abusing its power for a long, long, time.

      in 1971 the Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI raided an FBI office and published over 1000 classified FBI documents, revealing domestic political repression campaigns such as Operation Cointelpro A year later the FBI officially terminated the program.

      The public outrage led to an official Congressional investigation of the FBI which gave a report in 1976 that had this to say:

      "Americans are now aware of the capability and proven willingness of their Government to collect intelligence about their lawful activities and associations. What some suspected and others feared has turned out to be largely true -- vigorous expression of unpopular views, association with dissenting groups, participation in peaceful protest activities, have provoked both government surveillance and retaliation." Sound Familiar?

      The report goes on to say:

      "Too many people have been spied upon by too many Government agencies and too much information has been collected. The Government has often undertaken the secret surveillance of citizens on the basis of their political beliefs, even when those beliefs posed no threat of violence or illegal acts on behalf of a hostile foreign power. The Government, operating primarily through secret informants, but also using other intrusive techniques such as wiretaps, microphone "bugs", surreptitious mail opening, and break-ins, has swept in vast amounts of information about the personal lives, views, and associations of American citizens. Investigations of groups deemed potentially dangerous -- and even of groups suspected of associating with potentially dangerous organizations -- have continued for decades, despite the fact that those groups did not engage in unlawful activity. Groups and individuals have been harassed and disrupted because of their political views and their lifestyles. Investigations have been based upon vague standards whose breadth made excessive collection inevitable. Unsavory and vicious tactics have been employed... Remember, these are not "conspiracy theorists" talking -- this is an actual government report from 30 years ago documenting the behavior of the previous 40 years.

    4. Re:Great! by Sunburnt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Remember, these are not "conspiracy theorists" talking -- this is an actual government report from 30 years ago documenting the behavior of the previous 40 years.
      And look at what a widespread change in the corrupt culture of governance that report effected.

      While the above might seem like cynicism, but the truth is that the FBI has been abusing its power for a long, long, time.

      Exactly. I'm not being cynical. I'm just betting the odds.

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    5. Re:Great! by kcbrown · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really, I don't understand how the FBI could "ignore" a ruling. I would think that the judge would respond by naming specific individuals at the FBI, like the Director, and holding them in contempt and in jail, in perpetuity, until compliance occurs.

      And who, exactly, would arrest them, huh?

      The DOJ? Only if the DOJ were independent of the executive branch. Thanks to GWB, it's not anymore (if it ever was). The DEA? Executive branch. The ATF? Executive branch. The military? Executive branch.

      The court's power is enforced through the executive branch. If the executive branch decides it wants to ignore the court, what can the court do?

      Not a damned thing, that's what.

      He who controls the guns controls everything. Power over life and death is the ultimate power. The executive branch has that. The judicial branch does not.

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    6. Re:Great! by Courageous · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm uncertain in situations involving federal cases who the court appoints to conduct their arrests for contempt. However, I am pretty certain that they do indeed command the practical authority to have their contempt charges enforced. Whether or not they would be likely to engage an individual (FBI director, unlikely) as opposed to a fine ($100K a day until you comply... more likely) is worth discussing. And I think you're wrong: he who controls the PRESS controls everything. It just so happens that the one with the guns MIGHT be also in command of the press.

      BTW, while you have fine rant, the practical reality is that the FBI director won't be so for long with a warrant out for his arrest....

      C//

    7. Re:Great! by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I believe that responsibility would then rest with the U.S. Marshals.

      From Wikipedia:

      The USMS is the enforcement arm of the federal courts, protecting federal courts and ensuring the effective operation of the judicial system.
      and

      The United States Marshals Service also executes all lawful writs, processes, and orders issued under the authority of the United States, and shall command all necessary assistance to execute its duties.
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  2. For the love of god noooooooooo by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ice Ice Baby was bad enough the first time it was released.

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    1. Re:For the love of god noooooooooo by dangitman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ice Ice Baby was bad enough the first time it was released.

      You mean "Under Pressure"?

      --
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  3. Great! by TheGreatHegemon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Normally, I'd write a deeper post, but this warrants this instead: *Dances for joy* Granted, this is still a far cry from those documents being released. Documents disappear, or hell, the FBI just ignores the ruling. Wouldn't be the first time.

  4. It's just a matter of time. by Fox_1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We know that there are records of this activity by the FBI. Now it is just a matter of time until these records come to light. The beauty of computers and email and automatic logging is that this administrations actions will be very difficult to hide. It's really amazing that the FBI and other Gov't agencies went hog-wild on peoples civil rights, and that they thought somehow that this was OK, that they would get away with it. How blind to the future consequences of their actions are these people? Seriously it's like watching the stooges play gov't.

    --
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    1. Re:It's just a matter of time. by _KiTA_ · · Score: 4, Insightful


      We know that there are records of this activity by the FBI. Now it is just a matter of time until these records come to light. The beauty of computers and email and automatic logging is that this administrations actions will be very difficult to hide. It's really amazing that the FBI and other Gov't agencies went hog-wild on peoples civil rights, and that they thought somehow that this was OK, that they would get away with it. How blind to the future consequences of their actions are these people? Seriously it's like watching the stooges play gov't.


      Well, they felt that they had fixed the process enough that they had a "permanent majority" starting about 6 years ago. Fixed via either hosting sessions with DOJ and other Government officials on how they can do their part to fix elections, or getting easily edited digital election machines, or just restricting our rights to the point that we can't do shit to stop them.

      Ergo, why bother holding back anymore? They are "The Government" (Tm), now and forever, right? Right?

      I fear we're going to find all too many abuses of power in the upcoming decades. I've heard tell of us using White Phosphorous as a chemical weapon on civilians in Iraq, of using siege tactics on civilian cities, of all sorts of horrid crap that the US Media just won't acknowledge -- but is easily available information in the European and Asian news.

      Well, until the Democrats take full control in 2009 -- then suddenly the suddenly reformed US Media will "discover" all this bad stuff, just in time to find an excuse to blame it on President Obama.

    2. Re:It's just a matter of time. by kcbrown · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We know that there are records of this activity by the FBI. Now it is just a matter of time until these records come to light. The beauty of computers and email and automatic logging is that this administrations actions will be very difficult to hide. It's really amazing that the FBI and other Gov't agencies went hog-wild on peoples civil rights, and that they thought somehow that this was OK, that they would get away with it. How blind to the future consequences of their actions are these people? Seriously it's like watching the stooges play gov't.

      Yes, they may "come to light", though if they do so it'll be primarily through foreign and "independent" media, rather than the "mainstream" US mass media.

      And even if the general population finds out about it, you know what will happen? Nothing. Just as nothing happened with the revelation that the NSA was tapping domestic calls.

      Why? The root cause is that the people make their political decisions primarily based on what the mass media tells them, and the mass media is now controlled by a very small number of very large corporations. Those who run these (and other) very large corporations favor fascism because a merger between the corporations and the state (which is what fascism is) gives the corporations the ability to create captive markets through law, something they wouldn't be able to do with a government "by the people and for the people". It also gives the people who own and run these corporations power that they can exercise without responsibility (because the stooges in government wind up taking the blame for the consequences of that exercise, and in a pseudo-democracy like the US is right now the people wind up blaming themselves since they think they have control over who winds up in office -- a fallacy since they don't have control over who winds up on the ballot).

      In other words, we're way past the tipping point now, and there's no way short of massive violent revolution to put things right again. And I think violent revolution will fall on its face unless it gets the support of the military.

      And that means you'd better get used to the New America, because it looks like it's going to be with us for a long time.

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  5. Why the delay in turning over the records? by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After all, as mewling pussies everywhere have reminded us ad nauseam, if the FBI isn't doing anything wrong, what do they have to worry about?

  6. how can their possibly be _so_many_ terrorists? by hxnwix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Thousands! Of terrorists, in our own country!

    And criminals! With 2,186,230 in jail and thousands investigated without due process, Americans are either the most criminal or the most oppressed people on this earth.

  7. What the Guys at the FBI just heard by JamesRose · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Judge orders FBI to Abuse Reports"

  8. The government they deserve. by Original+Replica · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While I would like to agree with your optimism about the Democrats in 2009, I can't. Politicians aren't in the buisness of giving up power, and if we get a Democratic president, then signing statements etc will become "useful tools in the right hands". I have to wonder if our nations great experiment in Democracy is showing it's flaws they way Communism did in the late 80s. Our founding fathers knew that this was the weakness in our system, and perhaps that would explain the rather elitist requirements originally need for voter eligibilty. Maybe we need to make some new requirements for voters, like a current events and history exam. Maybe a required logic course. Perhaps some critical thinking and depth of knowledge in the voter, would produce some critical thinking and depth in the candidates.

    --
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  9. The judge... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...will probably now find that his phones will be tapped for the rest of his life, his mail will arrive having been tampered with, and everywhere he drives, he'll always be followed around by a dark blue Ford Crown Vic with US Govt plates containing a pair of large, frowning, square-jawed men wearing cheap dark suits and sunglasses and earphone wires running down their necks into their jackets.