Can Apple Find a European iPhone Partner?

pete314 writes "A Vnunet.com article claims that European mobile operators are unwilling to concede to Apple iPhone partnership demands. Several operators went as far as to say they 'will never offer the iPhone.' In the US, Verizon reportedly passed on the device, and AT&T is rumored to have engaged in a revenue-sharing deal that includes monthly payments to Cupertino." In Europe, unlike in the US, Apple has the option of selling the iPhone through its own dealer network without a simlock.

Comments

Answer: yes

[daveschroeder]

...or, they don't need to.

And before anyone says that we "don't know" whether the iPhone has a user-accessible SIM tray, yes, we do.

And yes, iPhone will work on any GSM carrier; that's the whole purpose of standards like GSM, and iPhone is a GSM phone. Network-specific functionality (such as visual voicemail) will not work, but the phone and basic voicemail functionality, data functionality, etc., will absolutely work.

When Apple is ready to launch iPhone in Europe - it has previously said Q4 2007 - I have no doubt they'll be launching it, whether it's with one partner or multiple, or Apple makes some compromises to make a deal happen.

I also take issue with the article's claim, regurgitated in the summary, that selling iPhone without a simlock is "not an option" in the US. Several phone manufacturers

And before anyone says that the iPhone is subsidized, therefore it must be a million dollars without a contract, you're wrong. Even though a two year contract with AT&T is required for iPhone in the US, the iPhone is not subsidized - the price is what it is.

And mobile operators calling Apple arrogant? How amusing. Also, I have another idea: how about people stop predicting the doom of the iPhone before it's even out yet?

Re:Answer: yes

[daveschroeder]

Cool. So Apple is targeting consumers who are outside of major urban areas, and isn't so interested in people who live in NY, SF, Seattle, Dallas, etc. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but at least it's a viable theory.

1. I didn't say that.

2. Your statement ignores the fact that massive numbers of people are in fact outside of 3G coverage.

3. Large numbers of people in major metro areas will still purchase iPhone, and WiFi will also mitigate the need for 3G for a lot of people. Those who really need 3G in a handheld device don't have to get an iPhone.

4. Obviously, future generations of iPhone will have added functionality. Apple has already said 3G is coming in the future.

Now will you explain why you don't want MMS or GPS either?

1. I never use MMS, and all the people saying that MMS is mandatory and "everyone uses it" are high, because I have never used it, and no one I know uses it. And this is on a major university campus. So that doesn't impact me at all. Also, I'd use email or iPhoto for all photo management from an iPhone.

2. I wish it did have GPS. It doesn't. I guess I get to weigh the pros vs. cons when making a purchasing decision? My current phone (Palm Treo 700p) doesn't have GPS either, nor do many PDA phones. Should we get upset about all of those, too? Why don't those have GPS?

The way I see it, the iPhone is basically a modern iPod duct taped to a state of the art cell phone from 2004.

Ignoring the ignorance of your comment, I'd just say, "Good thing buying one isn't mandatory, then." No one's forcing you to buy one.

Re:Answer: yes

[digitalchinky]

>>> This is due in large part to geographic size, and the nature of the marketplace as mobile telephone services were rolled out in the United States.

No, it isn't. Take a look at how the service providers hack away and restrict firmware on any remotely modern handset. Restricting things like wifi, bluetooth, file transfers over cable, hell, probably even infra-red, this has absolutely nothing to do with services that were rolled out in the past. It has everything to do with making more money from existing infrastructure.

Take a look at how many 'billions' of dollars the telco's were able to cough up when buying spectrum. The limitations are fully artificial. The US is indeed lagging several years behind most other countries when it comes to mobile communications. Here in the Philippines the entire country is covered with all the latest little GSM acronyms. A country which you US types have a tendency to refer to as '3rd world' There might be the odd bit of corruption here (sarcasm), but it is most definitely a country with 1st world amenities and technology throughout.

Re:Answer: yes

[mr_matticus]

Yeah, you missed something. This is a training/reference document, not an internal sales bulletin. As you can see by reading the document (or hell, even the excerpts), these are the answers to questions that customers would be asking, providing an official answer for sales representatives to use. iPhone hardware is not subsidized by AT&T because Apple wouldn't let them. Whether that is Apple arrogance or a brilliant attempt to expose cell phone pricing scams remains to be seen.

My fear is that the plan price will be comparable to any other data device, but without the benefit of a portion of that monthly bill being sent back to the manufacturer to pay the artificially low price of the handsets.

Oops, forgot to finish a sentence

[daveschroeder]

"I also take issue with the article's claim, regurgitated in the summary, that selling iPhone without a simlock is "not an option" in the US. Several phone manufacturers..."

should go on to read:

Several phone manufacturers offer unlocked GSM phones in the US that will work with any GSM carrier. There's no reason Apple couldn't do this anywhere, including Europe, and the US (after its rumored 5-year exclusive deal with AT&T is over).

Re:haha

[Simon80]

This device is far more deserving of any such hype. It has bluetooth, a GPS receiver, wifi, twice as many pixels on its touchscreen, and it runs on an entirely free platform (which is thus open for third party devevlopment). All of this for $350, with no service contract.

Operators are arrogant too

[gilesjuk]

In the UK the network operators like to bastardise the phone as they see fit. Rebranding, removing features and often ruining the phone. With Windows smartphones they often remove MSN messenger and any VOIP software.

Does it need to find a partner?

[Aphrika]

Does Apple really need a partner in Europe? Sure, it'd be nice to have one, but the iPhone would happily sit at the high-end of the smartphone range with the N95 in pricing if supplied SIM-free. Ok, so you wouldn't get provider stuff such as visual voicemail, but you'd get 99% of the functionality. However, I don't think it would look too appealing - you can get a lot more phone for your money at N95 prices...

And I know I'll get shot down for this, but I'm still not getting the whole iPhone vibe thing at all. It's a phone with a touchscreen. It doesn't have 3G, it has a pretty average camera and overall, it's a pretty bog-standard smartphone. Symbian and Windows Mobile devices have been out for ages, are well established with thousands of software titles, work well with corporate systems and are generally more feature-complete. In that sense, a lot of European carriers are probably wondering what the hell all the fuss is about.

Granted the iPhone has the whole iPod/iTunes thing going for it which I kinda like, but I'd wait until that touchscreen finds its way into a standalone iPod. While I'd like the iPhone to succeed, feature for feature, version 1 has already been surpassed here by the likes of the Nokia N95 and the Sony Ericsson W960i. :o(

Enough already

[Anonymous Coward]

Every fuckin' day there are at least two "news stories" about the iPhone here. I guess on June 29th Slashdot will become iPhone.org. Hasn't Sourceforge tired of the the taste of Jobs' nuts yet?

I don't think it will be sold SIM-free

[SeaFox]

In Europe, unlike in the US, Apple has the option of selling the iPhone through its own dealer network without a simlock.

Wouldn't this make AT&T's "exclusive" distribution agreement written on toilet paper? Everyone who didn't want get a long contract or use AT&T would just get the iPhone imported from Europe.

A more interesting question would be what Apple is going to do in those countries where it is illegal to lock a phone to a network or require a contract for it.

If there's going to be any "revolution" in the cell phone industry caused by the iPhone, it's how business is done U.S. cellular industry when the rest of the world is entirely different. I can't believe we still have to pay for incoming calls in the U.S.

iMslow

[kosmosik]

Rumors say that iPhone does ~25KBps on data connection. This really sucks. 3.5G network is really spread in Europe so with iPhone's pathetic ~25KBps (I easly 200KBps with my phone and laptop right now) bandwith is not really attractive for retailers in Europe. Well this is hardly a "Breakthrough Internet Device" isn't it?

Maybe next version could manage do something sane.

I mean for networks in Europe the main selling point right now is data transfer. It is like revolution - real mobile Internet. Well iPhone does not catch that. People everywhere here use phones (via their laptops) to access Internet. You have like plenty of billboards, press adverts, TV commercials focusing on GSM data transfer abilities.

Well lets see what iPhone can do... uhm... it can do phone calls and text messaging - hmm. Like any other phone really. It is not a selling point. Right now in Poland (at belive me - it is not the most advanced country in Europe) the selling point is 4Mbps data transfer.

So concluding - there is not a market (beside of really small fashion accessory one) for iPhone unless it can work as all other phones on the market (do HDSPA and modern data transfer).

Think about it the other way

[melted]

Cell phone company is going to get $600-1000 out of you per year regardless of what phone you own. You might as well own a good one. I'd much rather see them stop subsidizing phones altogether if I get unlimited voice for $20 a month and unlimited voice+data at $35. That, unfortunately, won't happen. Evar.

Prediction

[Frankie70]

If the iPhone gets launched at a 500$+ price point
in Europe, it would be a huge flop. This phone can
be a hit in Europe only if Apple reduces the price
by 25% atleast & sells it unlocked. The US is the
only place where such an expensive locked phone
can possibly sell huge numbers. But this time I
think even in the US, iPhone is not going to be
a huge hit - at best it would be a moderate success
at current price levels.

Re:haha: FAKER ALERT!

[Simon80]

Oh, I'm sorry, you couldn't figure out whether or not that blog is real, so obviously it must be a fake. See http://planet.openmoko.org/

Not another iPhone story

[plusser]

A few truths:-

1. If you go to Tokoyo, you will find most people walking round with a 3G/4G phone in one hand and an ipod in the other. The iPod has massive market penetration in Japan; the iPhone will when lanuched in Japan will have a large potential market. However, the previous generation of mobile phones (i.e. those before 3G) are totally incompatible with GSM. This is the main reason while the Asian market will have to wait until the battery technology improves.

2. 3G phones are still massive in size and have poor battery consumption when compared with GSM, hence the 3G version of the Mototrola V3 RAZR is almost twice the thickness of the GSM version. Europeans have a tendancy to go for smaller, more stylish phones, hence market penetration of 3G phones is fairly low. There are older members of the European population that like bigger phones, but they also don't like lots of technical functions; they are not in the market for an iPhone.

3. Most of the rest of the World have GSM, but 3G support is not consistent.

4. There are many phone users in European countries that now use pay as you go phone packages. This is because of the stupid attitude of mobile phone operators with regard to roaming charges for different countries; something the EU has recently tried to resolve. As the people whom are likely to buy an iPhone in Europe are likely to be those that travel a lot, having an unlocked phone will probably be a competitive advantage.

5. If I select an ISP, for my broadband connection, why should I be restricted to which model of computer I should use? Surely it is much better to buy a phone and then buy a contract for data/phone calls separately?

Re:another data point

[Ilgaz]

I've never sent a picture message, nor received one. I know one bloke who has for sure, may be 2 or 3 others who have. No one uses it regularly. In Europe there are millions (if not billions already) MMS messages which are sent daily. It is the most easy and guaranteed way to send a small photo or even sound to your recipient.

My provider (Turkcell) uses MMS technology for voice messages. When you enable it, the voice messages you receive are "pushed" to your phone instead of dialing anything or mess with buttons. They also use it with service partners to send premier league goals almost realtime via 3G video files.

I guess the reason why Apple doesn't include MMS and it is really shame for my platform of choice.

Re:haha

[mjjw]

As I'm not from the US - can someone please explain to me why Apple could not sell the device without sim-locking through its stores out there?

Re:Apple just has to wait a couple weeks

[drsquare]

Why would they want to do a deal with a manufacturer that can't keep up demand? The European mobile phone market is pretty saturated, carriers won't make money on phones that don't exist.

There's more than T-Mobile USA to life

[theolein]

Here in Switzerland (where the prices are generally very high), Orange
In Germany, with T-Mobile, the plans don't charge for incoming calls and are quite competitive.

You did know that different Europeam countries have different tarifs, didn't you? and you did know that no one here charegs you for incoming calls?

Or was this just another yay USA pissing match?

(T-Mobile is a German company, btw)

Re:MMS

[LKM]

Here in holland all phones, except for the really cheap ones, are internet capable (just GPRS or GPRS + UMTS).

They sure are, but do you actually know anyone who uses that stuff? Watching TV on your cell phone is fun for 10 seconds, until you realize that you'll never, ever use that, ever again. Browsing the web is somewhat more useful, but you're going to use this so rarely, given the crappyness of pretty much all phone browsers and the mere cost of the experience, that the slower transfer rates don't really matter.