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Manhunt 2 Banned In Britain
westlake writes "Rockstar's Manhunt 2 has been banned in the U.K. for what the British Board of Film Classification calls its 'unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying.' 'There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game.' The company has six weeks to submit an appeal. The last game to be refused classification was Carmageddon in 1997. That decision was later overturned via the appeals process."
If this game gets released for the PC I'm going to import it out of principle. Now, where did I leave my hammer again?
It lets me know which ones to buy.
Manhunt 2, available soon in the US on the Wii...
GamePro gives it 8/10.
IGN rated 9.5/10.
British Board of Film Classification calls its 'unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying.' 'There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game.'
-dave
http://millionnumbers.com/ - own the number of your dreams
The very idea of banning ANYTHING entertainment-related in a 1st world country/area is completely stupid.
Any newscast will be covering events at least as horrible if not worse than anythin you will find in a video game. The difference is, when you hear about someone getting brutally murdered on the news, a person actually died.
I've always felt those that say videogames/movies/whatever that are too violent are the sick ones, for they apparently cannot discern fantasy from reality.
Living With a Nerd
The question is: will it help? In Germany they also have a big controversy about violence in computer games (they call it "killergames" / de: "Killerspiele"). But the politicians don't ask them self if banning a computer game stops the users from using it. If the children can't buy it at the store, they'll just download it from the bittorent or edonkey network. And if they don't have an internet connection, they copy it from their friends. Children are not stupid.
Another question is: is this appropriate? I can truly understand that the politicians don't want to promote violence in games, but it's one thing to not like something and a complete other thing to ban/censor something.
It isn't called the war on some drugs for nothing, you know...
Living With a Nerd
What the BBC report fails to mention is that the copy of Manhunt involved in the Stephen Pakeerah case was actually owned by the murdered boy not the murderer - this is something that was acknowledged by the police.
Whilst the BBC report mentions that the police have come forward to say that the game had no impact on the killing, it's sad that they omit the very fact that frees the game from any blame, that as mentioned above, the victim owned the game. To me this suggests that they were clutching at straws to find an example of why the game should indeed be banned, and when unable to find one figured they'd use the next best thing and omit the facts that would negate the use of this example.
Of course, it was only yesterday we were hearing about how the BBC has a serious bias problem in it's reporting, so it really comes as no suprise. It's just a shame that only a day later they insist on proving their fault with the fact they once more publish half truths and bring up an irrelevant murder to try and justify the ban.
I'd argue, that the whole reason Manhunt 2 has been banned is not because there is a problem with the game as such, but because the BBFC felt it had no choice due to the public uproar various anti-video game media establishments like the BBC have produced - you only have to look at this weeks Panorama for a top notch example of the problem. How could the BBFC allow a game to be published, that as far as the general public know is responsible for a murder? It's hard to blame the BBFC on this one but easy to see that the British media is the real problem here.
Well, England is a country that believes firmly that firearms cause murder and that the best way to promote civil rights is to have 100,000 cameras filming the public at all times. Whatever happened to punishing the guilty and letting the rest of us move on with our lives? You can't protect people from themselves.
Nobody needs the government to tell them what games to play. They're just games, and what people do after playing the game is THEIR responsibility. No video game is going to MAKE someone commit a murder. It's FANTASY and a healthy way to release aggression in a harmless way. Sigh.
I love Britain, and have visited many times; but they look like they are heading down the slow road to Hell.
"Man is nothing without the works of man" -- Helvetius
So you're saying that even knowing someone who owns manhunt can turn you into a killer?
IOU one (1) signature
But that's what makes it FUN!
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I wouldn't exactly say these types of bans or things like drug laws are pointless. They just don't have the effect that a lot of people think. Making something that is in high demand illegal doesn't actually eliminate it from the population. All it does is change the distributors. Just look at our current drug laws and prohibition. These things exist because a large percentage of the population wants them to. Laws won't change that.
The issue is that the game will be played by people under the age of 18, even if they can't buy it. Leaving aside the matter of downloading the game from the internet, most parents seem happy to buy games rated 18 for their 12-17 year old offspring without a second thought.
Ratings on games are ignored far more (and by a larger age gap) than ratings on movies. Probably because of the word 'game'. Even if the stores hold up the game's rating at the point of sale, the parents will still go and buy their kid the game for them.
This is the situation in the murder case - the parent's bought their 14 year old sun an 18 certificate game. Aside from that irresponsible act, it had nothing to do with the child's death unless he was goading on a drug addled thug with themes from the game.
99% of kids of 14+ can handle 18 films and games without an issue I'd hazard a guess. However that other 1% can cause a lot of issues, hence the ratings.
I'm totally against bans however. I think the game should be made available, but not via the usual routes. Sell it in sex shops, so adults can buy it, but they'll stop and think about why their getting their 12 year old kid something from a sex shop. If they're happy to buy their kid things from a sex shop, then quite clearly the game isn't the issue at fault anyway.
Yep, and both parents of the murdered 14 year old said they used to play it together (which the police said was not true and went out of their way to state very clearly it wasn't a factor as the killer had never played it, that newspaper reports to the contrary were incorrect and that the motive was robbery).
Yet still both parents of the victim hold the game responsible - even though the only person involved who owned or had played a copy was the victim! They have not explained why their 14 year old child was allowed this 18 certificate game when they thought it was so deplorable - however they have the nerve to accuse Rockstar of being irresponsible. Given by their own admission, they were blatantly aware their 14 year old had this 18 certificate game and used to let him play it, that's somewhat ironic. I fully expect they even bought it for him.
Of course, the press (The Sun, The Mirror, GMTV, The BBC) didn't bother to correct their stories when it transpired they had been grossly misreporting the story for months (even after the police had been very clear in saying what the press was reporting was incorrect).
You confusing the poor graphics of those systems with a lack of violence, there were plenty of violent games on those old machines. River City Ransom, Double Dragon, Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem. The difference is that now the systems are actually capable of creating realistic environments, but the games are just recreating the same game play you had fun with back on the old systems. I think people should have the right to decide if they want to play manhunt or not.
Best physics
Best scoring system
Best audio
Best gameplay
Very possibly the best game ever! I think my entire floor in the dorms got addicted to this game (yes, it was an all male floor at an engineering school). I never would have guessed that senseless exaggerated violence with a buggy rubber band physics system could have been so much fun.
Hobby Robotics
Seriously, I think you have your priorities backwards... we should be concerned about the validity of measures taken to repress freedom, not concerned about the validity of one way in which people choose to express it.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Yes, drug laws are pointless. At this point, all they do is increase the violence involved in the sale of illegal drugs. Yet you can still find them just about anywhere.
What is the deal here? While I don't have a problem with limiting access to children, why the fsck are they messsing around with content a GROWN ADULT might wish to play?? The US is starting to lean this way too which saddens me.
What's next....banning books that have too much violent, sadistic content? Sure its not as flashy as the video game, but, it still promotes the same messages....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
You know, I really hate this perspective. It assumes that everyone agrees on what is offensive.
What about what I find offensive? The platitude ridden crap we get now is more offensive to me than some "snuff" game with no artistic merit. I love how these "small minded idiots" are branded as such based on no other criteria than creating something you disagree with. You may think you are voicing the opinion of reason, but its statements like yours that are more censorship favoring than anything else I tend to hear.
How about personal accountability for the media you consume?
How about making choices for yourself instead of assuming your opinion is the opinion?
How about understanding that majority opinion has been shown to be full of shit more than once?
What's next....banning books that have too much violent, sadistic content? Sure its not as flashy as the video game, but, it still promotes the same messages....
Pretty sure everyone would be up in arms against that one. I'm not a fan of the bible myself, but I hear I'm an exception...
Sure I understand games are not the cause, but with the great majority of people suffering more and more mental illnesses for whatever reason, do you want someone already on the edge to have this material?
I'm honestly not sure I care. I don't want my society being made into some sort of padded room for the "fragile" people. If some people can't take certain forms of entertainment, then they, or their caretakers if they're not competent to care for themselves, need to steer themselves away from it. It's that simple.
If you're offended by something, or worse, if something makes you more likely to do something bad/violent/criminal, then you have a responsibility to keep yourself away from it. People do stupid shit when they're intoxicated, but they don't get a free pass because they're drunk -- they chose to ingest alcohol, and are still responsible for their actions. Similarly, "the videogame made me do it" isn't an excuse, either. (Actually, it's far less of one than even the alcohol is.)
Society shouldn't be censored for children or the mentally ill.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I haven't noticed much of a problem with the volume of drugs in the country.
Well except my dealer won't come out at 6am and usually doesn't have stock by Tuesday, but that's soon corrected by Wednesday.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Good god. "Freedom of speech" isn't an "excuse." It's a fucking right! I'm hoping that either a) you grew up under a repressive regime and just haven't recovered from it or b) this is a very nicely, subtly constructed troll. Anything else marks you as a tool, in at least a couple senses of the word. If it's option B, then I'll just say, "Well done."
You are attacking a straw man, because insofar as slashdot reaches consensus on anything, it does not support censorship of music.
We are not defending the game companies. We are opposing censorship.
If it didn't work for them with Manhunt, they wouldn't be repeating the formula with Manhunt 2.
Violent games aren't the only kind that make money. But there IS money to be made in that market.
Why should violence be a requirement for good sales for them to be allowed to sell it?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Hostel II, the movie about rape/murder/torture/death/slashing/etc, was 5th in terms of revenues for this last weekend in the UK.
p. It doesn't help the family-friendly image of the Wii either.
Emotional and self righteous, well done +1.
However it can be a FUCKING RIGHT and also be used an excuse for grotesque things. The point is that it can be used to defend something that isn't really speech or expression, when you start giving these things more and more flexible definitions.
There is a *reason* for freedom of speech, and it's not there to let you play computer games about murdering people in horrible ways, it's there to stop people from repressing your opinions.
We should ban the Bible while we're at it, encouraging rape and stoning people to death. How about "Old Yeller"? I mean, shooting dogs HAS to be animal cruelty, and we can't be seen supporting that. And "To Kill a Mockingbird", because there's violence in there, too. None of those books are necessary.
How about you stop being a fucking pussy, and take some responsibility for the degradation of society by being perpetually afraid of everything and expecting the "government" to protect you from your own shadow? Games don't create violence. They simply reflect society's values, as all art does. Violence is inevitable when people are more willing to be a victim than to do something proactive to stop antisocial behavior. Start telling people that their kid is a brat, and that they're a jackass. Maybe if they hear it enough, they'll start to believe it.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Oh... adults! Yes, clearly those "adult" bastards can not be trusted. A movie board is much better off deciding what's best like them. Kiddos!
:-S
Seriously, why can even movies be "banned"?
Because this movie, unlike any other gory action movie, will inspire murderers and they won't be inspired by anything else either?
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
This to me is equivalent to book-banning. All mediums have the possibility to influence action on irrational folks (the crusades were based on some holy book i hear?). It's not like the wii is going to remain the forefront of simulation. Technology will go further and further into simulating real-world experiences. Will the limits of what those creators are allowed to do be set by legislation? Tsk tsk.
Freedom is dangerous. Free speech is dangerous. Whenever you have a free society, there is an inherent danger that someone might do something risky and/or undesirable.
However, if you look at history, authoritarian government is much more violent and dangerous that petty street criminals. And authoritarian governments usually do a poor job of controlling street crime for what it is worth.
So you are really making a deal with the devil. Enjoy the "safety" that fascism brings.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
What's next....banning books that have too much violent, sadistic content? Sure its not as flashy as the video game, but, it still promotes the same messages....
They already do. Even in the U.S., it's possible to produce "child porn" using a word processor and your imagination, at least according to the Justice Department. The way the obscenity statutes are written, if something isn't artistic enough, it can be banned as obscene, on its content and regardless of medium alone.
I thought arresting people just for text was something we'd left in the past, but a few years ago there was a case about some woman (I think it was a woman) who was arrested for operating a website that had stories, of a sexual nature, featuring 'underage' participants (meaning the fictitious characters in the stories were underage). They were judged to be obscene, and thus illegal, even though no minors were ever involved in their production.
The argument for banning actual underage pornography is pretty clear -- you have to eliminate the market for the stuff, to prevent children from being sucked in and abused in order to produce it. No argument for me (or pretty much anyone else) there.
However, the evidence for banning 'simulated' pornography, either computer-generated rasters, or text descriptions, seems very spurious. Okay, so there may be some evidence that the availability of even certain kinds of simulated pornography encourages violent behavior. But to begin with, the evidence seems thin and mostly driven by emotion and rhetoric, not rational argument. Second, that entire line of thinking is a terrible idea, because it undermines the concept of absolute individual responsibility.
Once you start letting people escape absolute responsibility for their actions, by blaming it on pornography, or violent video games, or movies, or just "society" in general, you've lost. Even if you can demonstrate that the availability of porn/games/movies/whatever motivates certain already-sick people to action, that's still not a justification for banning them from everyone. (If anything, it suggests that we need to do a better job ferreting these people out before they can act, and dealing with them.) If a small uptick in crime and violence are the price we have to pay for individualism, then we need to suck it up, because that's the basis for our entire civilization.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Where I come from, freedom of speech doesn't come with some nebulous rider about "some value to what is being said". I suppose that's why we don't put quotation marks around it. Sounds like "freedom of speech" is a lot like not having freedom of speech. The whole point of freedom of speech is that you are free to speak, regardless of whether others think what you have to say has any value.
Incitement and conspiracy are not covered by free speech laws because these are cases where the speech is intended to cause specific action, causing the act of speech to be considered an action and not (simply) a statement. As in many cases, a person's intent is an essential element in making a legal determination.
The doctrine of free speech is generally understood to make lawful any statement that cannot be shown to have specific illegal intent (e.g., incitement) or content (e.g., copyright, obscenity). The burden of proof in this way of seeing things is on the person wanting the speech to be stopped; it must be proven that there is illegal intent or content to the speech. In your way of seeing things, the burden of proof is on the speaker, who must prove that there is "some value". Next you'll be telling us that people are "innocent until proven guilty" provided they can prove their innocence first.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Long answer (disclaimer, I am *not* an expert). The PAL variants vary only in sound encoding and this ONLY affects transmitted material- and only with actual analogue PAL.
This is a situation where using "PAL"/"NTSC" as synonyms for 50Hz/625-line, and 60Hz/525-line displays is misleading. Digitally-transmitted and recorded material is not in PAL or NTSC, or SECAM format. (In fact, strictly-speaking, PAL only refers to the colour encoding, not the frame rate or resolution!!)
Yes, the refresh/resolution specs of our digital systems normally reflect the old analogue systems for compatibility, but they're not "PAL" or "NTSC". Remember that games, etc do not use analogue PAL/SECAM video.
Since (AFAIK) PAL and SECAM countries mostly use the same frame/refresh rates, that should be all that matters when it comes to playing back digitally-recorded and generated material. At worst, the system you are playing the game on should be compatible with your TV system (for composite video???) but this will usually be the case anyway. At best, people will be connecting via RGB SCART, so only the refresh/resolution is an issue, and that's the same in both cases.
As I said above, regional lockouts and so on would be more of an issue.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
How about we just float this idea: Video games are fake, and what you do inside of one is similar to what you do inside your head, no body's business but your own. Other people are real and you ARE responsible to what you do there. Is it really so hard to explain to people that most gamers don't even think about the violence in a game after a few hours. Once you understand the game mechanics all games are like solitaire: just because you see kings and queens in front of you, doesn't mean you are plotting regicide.
In fact, ill expand on this. As a person owing a couple of consoles, all of them chipped to play imports, ill explain.
;] Thank you for letting me have my Twilight Princess fix!).
Also, if you have a old TV (PAL) that doesnt support NTSC - that will not work. Some PAL&NTSC tvs might get confused by the PAL-60 mix but 95% will do just fine.
If you ask me - grab a MULTI-5 version from some EU country :)
First off, you have to defeat region coding. If you get a modchip you've got that done. If not, you have to get a EU copy (or close to EU). France doesn't use SECAM for a long time now, so no worries about that. Besides all games are 'set' to either PAL or NTSC (and if youre talking about variants, then only care if you get a Japan game - they have a modified NTSC there called NTSC-J). As the parent mentioned, the variants mostly relate to the sound, and we don't care about that since most of us use the RCA plugs to get our sound.
Now, if you are getting an import from an US country the console will _NOT_ output NTSC. And before you jump me saying that you did just that and your tv says its NTSC - i know, and the TV doesn't see the difference (well, most TVs don't) because the frequency decoder and the color decoder are usually separate subsystems.
PAL consoles playing NTSC games output PAL-60. What this means is the refresh is 60Hz (interlaced) but in PAL colour. Why should you care? If youre using a tv tuner (like a myth box) you better should because not a lot of TV tuner cards do (and even those that do don't usually have driver support for that strange mode). Setting your card to NTSC will give you a b&w picture. I have fought this for about a month when i arrived at this very resolution, then i had to catch the developer for the cx88 linux module to implement that mode (well, it theoretically was there, but it never worked and no-one tried, so yeah, Hi Mauro
The only people who want to "debate" human rights are the people who are interested in taking them away. The people who support free speech aren't interested in debating what free-speech means, because free speech is the natural human state by default. I have free speech until someone threatens to take it away. People want to initiate debate about rights because they want to find some convoluted reasoning for taking away the basic freedoms and abilities that people have by their very nature.
And none of your arguements have any bearing over freedom of speech, which is information and not bound by any real scarcity. Speech can't infringe on anyone elses rights.