USAF Developing New "SR-72" Supersonic Spy?

Kadin2048 writes "According to an Air Force Times article, the famed Lockheed Martin 'Skunk Works' may be hard at work on a new supersonic spy plane (with 'artist concept') for the U.S. military, to replace the SR-71 'Blackbird' retired a decade ago. Dubbed by some the SR-72, the jet would be unmanned and travel at about 4,000 MPH at as much as 100,000 feet, with 'transcontinental' range. Some have speculated that new high-speed spy planes could be a U.S. response to anti-satellite weapons deployed by China, in order to preserve reconnaissance capabilities in the event of a loss of satellite coverage. Neither the Air Force nor Lockheed Martin would comment on the program, or lack thereof."

Comments

better hope it's real stealthy

[Anonymous Coward]

Given the size of the thing, and the speed and height it flies at, that's going to look a lot like a missile. Might not be the best thing for an already paranoid enemy to see.

Re:better hope it's real stealthy

[moderatorrater]

If it's anything like the SR-71, it won't be an issue whether they see it or not, they'll just accelerate. The Blackbird was a horribly un-stealthy plane, seen from hundreds of miles away by radar. However, while they were shot at quite frequently, they were never destroyed by enemy fire because of their speed and altitude. If a new version is in the works and this isn't just the same rumor that's been passed around for years, then it could easily incorporate the same defense mechanism.

Re:better hope it's real stealthy

[rogerborn]

One. It is not the SR-72. It is not even the SR-75 or the 79. Those designations are already being used for other vehicles. Nor is it likely called the AM-11 or the A-17, nor even the 'Stealth Triangle.' To the rest of us, its designation is unknown.

Two. It does not generate heat through the atmosphere, nor does it require 'fuel' in the normal sense.

Three. It is not exactly stealthy, since it 'glows' somewhat at night. However, due to its tremedous speed and its operating silence, it still maintains an element of surprise with a target.

Four. The basic shape is triangular, but that is not its only shape. You would not believe that the Air Force or any other branch of the government would reveal the stealth fighter (F-117) and the stealth bomber (B-2) to the public and the world, if they did not already have something much more advanced and in production, did you?

What can we gather from all this? Evidently, the great secret and the power of the new craft are its propulsive 'engines' which may or may not be magnetic in nature. Therefore, if they are so radical, I wonder if they can only work within the atmosphere, or if they indeed have been used to go to other nearby bodies in space?

But, what do I know? I just live near a base where they test out its weapons delivery. Your mileage may vary.

"If it doesn't work out the way you want it to, it will work out the way its supposed to be."

Re:better hope it's real stealthy

[moderatorrater]

Assuming such lasers exist, shooting down a satellite is much, much harder than hitting any airplane. The satellite has a known trajectory that doesn't change much over the course of weeks, making it very easy to plan exactly how to fire the laser. Also, a satellite will change a few degrees per second at most.

On the other hand you have an aircraft traveling at mach 6. This requires you to accurately plot the trajectory, get the laser in place and aimed and firing for however long it needs to be concentrated on the same spot, all in a matter of minutes. Assuming the laser needs to be concentrated on the same spot for 1 second, the aircraft will have traveled nearly a mile. Not an easy task.

Re:better hope it's real stealthy

[rsmoody]

Um, actually, the SR-71, for its time, was quite stealthy. The chines were constructed to reduce radar signature and it was coated with an early RAM material. About the only time you could see it well on radar was during a turn as the underside was poorly designed with regards to radar signature and would reflect a massive radar signature. Several of its accidentally stealthy characteristics are what brought on the interest in the creation of Have Blue, the predecessor to the F-117. They correctly deduced that these radar absorbing and scattering characteristics could be amplified with a correctly shaped object, thus was created the "Hopeless Diamond" which was a computer modeled object that when placed on a radar range, directly reflected almost no radar signature. In fact, during the test, they thought that the model had come off the stand and were prepared to go down the range to fix the issue, about this time, a small bird landed on the model creating a radar signature. This was their eureka moment. Regardless, radar lock was certainly possible to acquire on the SR-71, however, do defend itself, the pilot simply needed to add power for a few seconds and it would accelerate out of the missile's range very quickly.

A few comments...

[Valdez]

The new jet -- being referred to by some as the SR-72 -- is likely to be unmanned and, while intended for reconnaissance, could eventually trade its sensors for weapons. I'd be interested to see what kind of weapon they're planning to pop out the bottom of this thing @ Mach 6. Doesn't seem like a terribly bright idea...

Second, friction at high speeds could reduce stealth. At some point, you don't need the stealth, because by the time anyone realizes you're coming and gets some sort of weapon 100k ft into the air, you'll probably have already landed.

I hate to state the obvious, but the article is pretty sensational... I can summarize:

Cower before our unmanned 6000mph stealthy black aircraft! If the Mach 6 shockwave doesn't get you, the nuclear handgrenades it carries will!

Already got one of these

[Skreech]

I already have an SR-72.

http://www.apogeerockets.com/SR72_Darkbird_Kit.asp

It doesn't go 4,000mph, though. It just sits there. I think I was ripped off.

RS-71

[narced]

I'm sure a lot of you guys already know this, but for those that don't...

The SR-71 Blackbird was originally named the RS-71, but it was renamed when Lyndon Johnson accidentally rearranged the letters during his 1964 announcement of the existence of the SR-71 (which he was supposed to call RS-71). Anyway... airplane history for ya'll.

Re:RS-71

[Napoleon The Pig]

Not quite... "Conventional" wisdom now says that then president Lyndon B. Johnson messed up the designation in his public announcement and called it the SR-71 - and nobody wanted to correct the president. Because the strike mission had been cancelled anyway, "SR" was quickly reinterpreted as "Strategic Reconnaissance". However, a first-hand witness of those events recently revealed in Aviation Week & Space Technology, that LBJ did not misread anything. In fact, then USAF Chief of Staff LeMay simply didn't like the "RS" designator - he already objected it when the RS-70 was discussed, preferring "SR-70". When the RS-71 was to be announced, he wanted to make sure it would be called SR-71 instead. He managed to have LBJ's speech script altered to show "SR-71" in all places. Using archived copies of LBJ's speech, it can actually be verified that it reads SR-71 both in the script and on the tape recording. However, the official transcript of the speech, created from the stenographic records and handed to the press afterwards, shows "RS-71" in three places. It seems that not the president but a stenographer did accidentally switch the letters, and thus create a famous aviation "urban legend". http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/nonstan dard-mds.html#_MDS_SR71

Re:RS-71

[boster]

According to Wikipedia:

Name and designation

The USAF had planned to redesignate the A-12 aircraft as the B-71 as the successor to the B-70 Valkyrie. The B-71 would have a nuclear capability of 3 first-generation SRAM's (Short-Range Attack Missiles). The next designation was RS-71 (Reconnaissance-Strike) when the strike capability became an option. However, then USAF Chief of Staff Curtis LeMay preferred the SR (Strategic Reconnaisance) designation and wanted the RS-71 to be named SR-71. Before the Blackbird was to be announced by President Johnson on 29 February 1964, LeMay lobbied to modify Johnson's speech to read SR-71 instead of RS-71. The media transcript given to the press at the time still had the earlier RS-71 designation in places, creating the myth that the president had misread the plane's designation.[1][2]

New Name

[El Torico]

I was wondering when they'd have an official designation for Aurora.

Re:Particle beam weapon

[MrNaz]

It's also vulnerable to psionic telekinetic mutants who could pull the thing to Earth and then disassemble it with their minds.

Re:Particle beam weapon

[Kagura]

I hope you get modded up to at least Insightful +3.

I think the AC's point was retaliation

[benhocking]

As in Mutually Assured Destruction, if the SR-72 were falsely interpreted as a nuclear missile. I doubt that would happen, but I believe that was the point of the "first post".

Re:I think the AC's point was retaliation

[gujo-odori]

That was the point (although China Vs. the US or Russia in a nuclear shootout would not result in MAD, it would results in the US or Russia being mauled and China being utterly destroyed), but the AC was a complete tool, and so were those who modded him Insightful. The only kind of missile with a similar flight trajectory would be operating at a much lower altitude - say, 50 - 100 feet - and at subsonic speeds.

An ICBM, unlike a cruise missile or an SR-71, has a very steep angle of ascent, and comes down pretty steeply, too, doesn't have much of a heat signature on the way down, and since most (or all?) of those held by the US and Russia have MIRV warheads, the things coming down will also be far, far smaller than an aircraft. A spy plane looks nothing like a missile on radar.

Re:fsdf 53tgvzxcreahb fg agasgdgu nbcxfharefdawsgg

[CommunistHamster]

Gentlemen, this may be the very first sighting of this new spyplane on Slashdot. Observe the shape made by the bold text under a resolution of 640*480 @ 60Hz.

remember kids...

[Thaelon]

If the headline ends in a question mark, it's not news.

probably exists now

[192939495969798999]

the SR-71 is a famous example of something very advanced remaining classified for a long time. By the time the public saw them, they were practically retired. I'd guess that this vehicle exists now in classified form, and by 2020 we'll "officially" know they've built and flown them.

Re:Necessary?

[dixie_flatline_000]

Have a look at the Russian S-300 family of SAMs (NATO SA-10 GRUMBLE/SA-12 GLADIATOR and successors). Max engagement altitude is ~100k ft, and top speed is in excess of Mach 6. The SR-71 lives near the edge of the S-300's engagement envelope, but it's close enough to be a real hazard, and the S-300s are pretty widely deployed. It's at least as much of a threat as the SA-2 GUIDELINE represented to the U-2.

Classified

[R3d M3rcury]

FTFA:

"As a matter of policy, we don't talk about classified programs -- whether or not they exist," Lockheed's Tom Jurkowsky said. If the program doesn't exist, how can it be classified? Or has the military classified everything that doesn't exist?

I'm confused.

Re:No joke.

[jjk3]

I personally think the Enterprise trumps the SR-71, but there is no denying the bad assness of the last flight of that SR-71.

According to the Smithsonian - http://www.nasm.si.edu/aircraft/lockheed_sr71.htm

"On March 6, 1990, the service career of one Lockheed SR-71A Blackbird ended with a record-setting flight. This special airplane bore Air Force serial number 64-17972. Lt. Col. Ed Yeilding and his RSO, Lieutenant Colonel Joseph Vida, flew this aircraft from Los Angeles to Washington D.C. in 1 hour, 4 minutes, and 20 seconds, averaging a speed of 3,418 kph (2,124 mph). At the conclusion of the flight, '972 landed at Dulles International Airport and taxied into the custody of the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum. At that time, Lt. Col. Vida had logged 1,392.7 hours of flight time in Blackbirds, more than that of any other crewman."

3,418 kmp = Mach 2.79, pretty bad ass. I though you were not able to break the sound barrier over the US, either a special circumstance or I am just wrong.

Re:Particle beam weapon

[ffoiii]

I, for one, welcome our new psionic telekinetic mutant overlords.

Stealth heat signature

[cojsl]

In the excellent "Skunk Works" about Lockheed Martin's special projects division, Ben Rich discusses the problem of masking the heat signature from air friction against the airframe of a plane flying Mach 6, saying it would show up like a meteor to a thermal detector. At that speed you can't shoot it down, but the observed can detect it thermally. I recall that he said they put additives in the SR-71's fuel to reduce the heat signature of its exhaust.
It seems that the U2 and SR-71 overflights may have had a calming effect on US military actions, as they allowed the US to better understand the USSR's level of alert, and prevented overreaction to a false belief that the USSR may have been massing for an attack.

Re:Obligatory linguistic correction

[CaseyB]

Guess that makes me a German Nazi...

You just Godwinned yourself. I've never seen that before.

Re:Sounds like D-21 redux.

[Richard Elmore]

The D-21 had problems being launched from A-12 aircraft at supersonic speed, Kelly Johnson was quoted as saying it was "the most dangerous maneuver we have ever been involved in, in any airplane I have ever worked on."

Launching from a B-52 using a booster rocket to accelerate to the speed needed to start the drone's ramjet engine was another option. One problem there was that the radar signature of a D-21 launch looked a very similar to the launch of a Hound Dog missle so there was concern that somebody might jump to the wrong conclusion and shoot back.

In the end the poor reliability of the drone itself killed the project; of the four operational D-21 missions no film was ever successfully recovered.

SA-12 aka S-300

[theolein]

I'm not so sure that this craft will be invulnerable to surface to air missiles such as the S-300V (SA-12b) fielded by Russia, China and India. The SA-12b has a range of between 100 and 200 km and a speed of 2.4km/s (Mach 7.24) and is known to have a limited anti-ballistic missile capability. Any craft travelling at mach 6 is not going to be very manoeuvrable (less than a missile in any case) and if it were to come in range of the SAMs would very likey be shot down. It is also an interesting coincidence that the SR-71 was slowly retired as later variants of the S-300 became operational as it would have made intercepts possible even over international waters where the SR-71 usually operated (The limits of view at 80 000 feet altitude is about 640km so there good information could be gathered without endangering the crew and craft, and satellites could actually get closer to the target than the SR-71 could), but you can be sure that the SR-71 was never operated over any area where there were active and hostile S-300s.

That said, tracking a target at mach 6 is no easy task. If the plane deploys some stealth or good ecm it will be no easy target. But invulnerable I seriously doubt. In the same manner that Russia upgraded its S-27 Topol M ICBM to manoeuvre in order to make targeting by the US ABM interceptor missiles, I am pretty sure that both China and Russia would be able to develop a counter to the SR-72 relatively cheaply, probably by improving the S-300 system.

I think the real use of a system such as this would be against countries like Iran, which the US fears is going to threaten Israel.