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The Privacy of Email

An Anonymous Coward writes "A U.S. appeals court in Ohio has ruled that e-mail messages stored on Internet servers are protected by the Constitution as are telephone conversations and that a federal law permitting warrantless secret searches of e-mail violates the Fourth Amendment. 'The Stored Communications Act is very important,' former federal prosecutor and counter-terrorism specialist Andrew McCarthy told United Press International. But the future of the law now hangs in the balance."

23 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. future of the law now hangs in the balance by bl8n8r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I thought this balanced out to "States Secret", or better put, "You get privacy until we decide you don't need it"

    http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/

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  2. Asinine by bconway · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There is no more expectation of privacy in a plaintext email than there is in an open-face postcard. If you want privacy, take steps to encrypt it, not unlike putting a letter in a sealed envelope (as it pertains to the law, not ease of circumvention). This will be overturned, and with good reason.

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    1. Re:Asinine by whisper_jeff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      By your arguement, nobody should expect privacy when talking on the phone since they didn't take steps to encrypt their phonecalls so wiretapping should be enirely acceptable. Or if your arguement only applicable to emails?...

    2. Re:Asinine by $1uck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no more expectation of privacy in a plaintext email than there is in an open-face postcard.

      I'm sorry but that is utter nonsense. Maybe not to you, and maybe not to who ever modded your comment up. I don't expect anyone to read my email other than the recipient. That's an expectation. I don't see how anyone who doesn't open my email will be able to read it.
      Correct me if I'm wrong, but its not a typical part of an email server to display the contents of all messages passing through it onto a monitor somewhere is it?
      No, I'd say its absolutely nothing like sending an open postcard.

      If you want privacy, take steps to encrypt it, not unlike putting a letter in a sealed envelope (as it pertains to the law, not ease of circumvention). This will be overturned, and with good reason.

      Yeah I don't think this is reasonable either.. thats like saying if you don't want to be searched hide your stuff better. Utter nonsense.

    3. Re:Asinine by daeg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The ruling doesn't say that e-mail is off limits. All the court said was that there is nothing special about e-mail or phone calls. They are still grounds to be seized, but those wanting the information (FBI, prosecutors, etc) must go through due process to obtain them. If they get a warrant they can seize e-mail all they want.

    4. Re:Asinine by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thank you. This is the point nobody seems to be getting. Nobody is saying that emails can't be used as evidence, but that in order for them to be used, the cops must go through the proper procedures. If they don't use proper procedures to obtain the email, then it is inadmissible in court. Same goes for the telephone. Just as it is trivially easy for the cops to tap your phone, they are not allowed to do it unless they go through the proper procedures for obtaining a warrant. Saying that you should just encrypt your email if you want it to stay private is the same as saying you should build a 20 foot concrete wall around your house if you don't want them doing illegal searches of your property.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    5. Re:Asinine by honkycat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's exactly like sending a postcard in that anyone who picks it up (ie whose server forwards it) can read it. It's just text. Servers can and do routinely keep stuff around, whether in the cache, hard drive or ram. The court realized this and ruled that the ISP is a "mere custod[ian]" of the data. In other words, that data is yours and they only possess it to enable the system to work. The government cannot simply take an action because it is technically simple, it is (and should be) required to consider whether each action is ethical (and/or Constitutional). This is a fantastic ruling on that front.

      And yes, if reading email is found to be illegal, then the law will simply be changed to make it legal. Ok, I'll be waiting for that Constitutional amendment to go through. Unless this ruling is overturned (which is possible), that's what would be required.
    6. Re:Asinine by $1uck · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, you are simply wrong. A carrier (a human being) picking up a post card cannot help but to see the text. He may choose not to read it, but it is visible. An email passing through someone else's router is not going to be seen by human eyes by accident. It will not "flash" across a monitor, it will not be opened and read with out specifically and purposefully being opened.
      It's exactly like sending a postcard in that anyone who picks it up (ie whose server forwards it) can read it Thats like saying any postal carrier can open your letter and read it (this too is true) but you don't expect it. They still have to open it unlike a postcard.

    7. Re:Asinine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is no more expectation of privacy in a plaintext email than there is in an open-face postcard

      Riiiiight, because everytime someone sends an email unencrypted, it's shown to the whole wild world.

      No, actually, if you're neither the recipient nor the sender, you have to take special steps to get a look at the email even if it's in plaintext. Even the server administrator can't sit there and read all 20000000000 emails a day, no, the administrator has to take steps to get your email if he wants to look at it.

      Next thing, you'll be telling me that me steaming open all of your envelopes and reading everything you mail is illegal, it's not like you actually took any steps to prevent me from doing so, right?

    8. Re:Asinine by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2, Insightful

      However, with packet-switched phone networks replacing traditional circuit switching, that distinction is becoming more blurred.

      It seems to me the analogy is a valid one. Any switching means that there are multiple points where your unencrypted conversation can be intercepted. Even back to the early days of a telephone, where such interception was required via an operator in order to make a connection. You may have expectation of a point-to-point communication, but it's never actually that (obviously excluding the pioneering work).
  3. Woot by lupis42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do like the "Where the third party is not expected to access the e-mails in the normal course of business ... the party (sending them) maintains a reasonable expectation of privacy." bit. We need more decisions like this, if we want to remain an even somewhat free society.

  4. Re:is this actually useful? by lupis42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not a matter of tracking everything. Even if they only track "suspected dissidents," who will doubtless be selected by procedures as effective and precise as those that get people on to no fly lists, it's still a massive invasion of the privacy of the people who get tracked.

  5. prosecutors|police vs mere mortals by misanthrope101 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Yes, I can see why a prosecutor would consider the ability to read people's email without warrants, oversight, or checks/balances "very important." It makes sense that he doesn't want to have to go before a third party and demonstrate probable cause, otherwise he can't go fishing for information, target people he doesn't like for political|religious reasons, etc.

    Despite the torrent of "email isn't private, and only stupid people think it is" posts that will follow, if a monkey at the local ISP took sensitive customer emails (to each other, not to the company) that he had plucked from their servers and posted them to a blog or whatever, there would be an outcry, criminal investigation, lawsuit, and (fake) apologies. If the prosecutor's own dirty emails to his wife|mistress|whatever were publicized, the prosecutor would suddenly discover that a crime had been committed.

    When it comes to private parties, either communication is private, or it isn't. If it isn't, then Joe Schmoe who works at AOL or the local ISP can read customers' emails at random and post the amusing bits to a public forum. Anything Joe Schmoe can't legally do, his brother Officer Jim needs a warrant to do. If Officer Jim doesn't need a warrant to do it, that means Joe the private citizen can do it with impunity.

    What we're saying is, "you have an expectation of privacy in your private affairs, unless it's a police eyeball/eardrum, and in those cases you have no expectation of privacy because your action was public and they don't need a warrant." Bullshit. Anything the police don't need a warrant for is something every single private citizen should be able to do with impunity. Anything we don't want the public doing (privacy-wise) is something the police should need a warrant to do. Otherwise you're giving police and prosecutors the power to arbitrarily target anytone they want, without any oversight at all. This isn't complicated, people. I can understand why they would ask for it, but not why we would be so stupid as to give it to them.

  6. people are so stupid by misanthrope101 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Your speech isn't encrypted either, but if I bug your house it's considered a violation of your privacy. I don't even have to enter your house for that--the laser microphone will let me listen/record from the sidewalk. Since your sound waves are traveling outside your home, you must not have an expectation of privacy.

    Letters in the mail? Sealed with glue. Glue. Wow. You must not have much expectation of privacy there, otherwise you would've used a more robust method of ensuring your privacy. Even your phone calls are unencryped, sent as electrical impulses over wires and cables. Is it okay to listen to and record cellphone conversations, because they are transmitted through the air? If not, why not? If people wanted security, they wouldn't have transmitted those radio waves all over the place. People are so stupid.

    It's true that we have laws against most (or all) of this type of surveillance. But it's just to protect the stupid people. I think that anytime it's possible to intercept your message, everyone should be able to do so, no warrant or probable cause needed, and use it in any way they want. That's the only way people will stop being so stupid that they think they have an expectation of privacy.

    1. Re:people are so stupid by misanthrope101 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, I was being ironic, but ultimately I think it's about veneration of power. People get fed up with red tape and complication and dream of just having the power to "get stuff done." Law enforcement/military ops superficially seem to be areas where stuff most urgently needs to get done, so seem to be prime candidates for cutting the red tape and administrative overhead, including oversight. It's not for nothing that people love action movies of burly men just mowing through the bad guys, namby-pamby due process "rights" be damned. It's a power fantasy. I don't think we're a particularly healthy country, mentally speaking. Not to say that others are wonderful by comparison, but this one is mine, so the problems are more relevant to me than those of Lichtenstein.

  7. the cost of freedom by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought this balanced out to "States Secret", or better put, "You get privacy until we decide you don't need it"

    "Those who give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    The cost of freedom is the risk you take that someone will use that freedom to harm you. The payback is that you and your family live your lives free.

    1. Re:the cost of freedom by lupis42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And it's high time we remembered that. I for one would rather see, or even be killed in, another 9/11 than see us continue as we have. We Americans have become far too cowardly when it comes to defending our own freedoms lately, particularly against our own government.

    2. Re:the cost of freedom by BVis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was going to mod you up but I decided to comment instead. I wish more people got that. While I don't think that we're at the torches-and-pitchforks, ruby-ridge-bunker stage, I can see how people would get there from here.

      We're operating under the specious principle that if we restrict freedoms in the name of preventing terrorism, we will be safer. Not even a LITTLE. All this does is cause inconvenience and infringe on the civil rights that our founding fathers found so essential to the existence of our country. I took a vacation last week that took me out of the USA, and even I, not being a trained "terrorist", figured out about a dozen ways that I could have gotten a weapon/explosive on the plane. It's not helping at all. Suicide bombers are happy to be martyrs for a cause they believe in; shouldn't we be ready to do the same if we REALLY want to fight fire with fire?

      Oh, wait, dying for your country is only for the poor. What was I thinking?

      MOD PARENT UP, other people.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    3. Re:the cost of freedom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When do we take our country back from the idiots?

      When people like you run for political offices.

      I am sure you won't. I won't either. Why? Because we would hate the job.

      Be that as it may, simply voting and funding the ACLU won't cut it. So long as the lawmakers are people who represent the interests of the wealthy aristocracy rather than the general public, this sort of idiocy will continue.

    4. Re:the cost of freedom by AaronBenage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is this guy getting modded down? He is exactly right.

      --
      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -
    5. Re:the cost of freedom by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I invite you to try this in the UK... if you like a firm frisking. Here in the UK the gate detectors are pinging on your watch strap... let alone golf tools. And just like the US, our border officials leave their sense of humour at home. Rich

      They make hard plastic and fiberglass knives now, too. Not sure what the metal detectors are supposed to do about them.

      Sure, they're not as sturdy as metal knives -- I wouldn't want to use one as a pocketknife, because it would get dull -- but you can make a hell of a single- or few-use stiletto out of one.

      The crap at the airports is just security theater. They go around confiscating people's pen-knives and soda cups, because for some strange reason people feel safer when their pen-knives and soda cups are confiscated. The real terrorists have lots of ways of getting instruments of mayhem through, if they want to.

      If we wanted real airline security, we'd stop putting all our faith in expensive gadgets and employ more (and pay substantially more, so we can stop getting idiots) human beings, so that every single passenger gets an interview before they get on the plane. People are substantially better at detecting the intentions of other people than machines are, based on many more possible factors. The Israelis have had lots of luck with approaches like this, but the fact is in the West, we really don't want security, we want the appearance of, and feeling of, security.

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  8. It is like a postcard... by Ericular · · Score: 5, Insightful
    In many ways, a plaintext e-mail is exactly like a postcard.

    When I send a postcard, I have good faith that nobody along the way (mail carrier, other postal worker, OCR systems) will read what I have written. However, if someone or something handling my postcard along its journey really wanted to read the contents, to do so would be relatively easy.

    It's the same case with a plaintext e-mail. I have good faith that no system administrators or automated monitoring systems will read my plaintext e-mail along its journey, but if someone really wanted to read the contents, to do so would be relatively easy.

    Preventing this requires encryption for e-mail, and for tangible mail either a sealed letter (not much of a roadblock for the determined), or by actually encrypting the text I write on the postcard.

    So yeah, there are some similiarities in my mind.

  9. Re:Protected by the Constitution? by Y2KDragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Our Founding Fathers (and Mothers too), IMO, did not intend for the protections under the Constitution to be limited to "a select few". The words "ALL MEN" appear in this document for a reason. Therefore, not only should it apply to US Citizens, those here with Green Cards, foreign visitors, and even those here illegally, but it has to apply to everyone worldwide. Either they apply to everyone, or they apply to no one.