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P2P Remains Dominant Protocol

An anonymous reader writes "Last week, a press release was issued by Ellacotya that suggested something quite startling — HTTP (Hyper Text Transfer Protocol, aka Web traffic) had for the first time in four years overtaken P2P traffic. However a new article from Slyck disputes this, and contends that P2P remains the bandwidth heavyweight."

20 of 88 comments (clear)

  1. Protocol? by dreamchaser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here I thought P2P was a class of applications, you know, ones that communicate peer to peer.

    WTF. We can't even blame editors for this crap anymore, because they gave us the Firehose.

    1. Re:Protocol? by Nephrite · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't you know that P2P stands for "Protocol to Pirate"? Shame on you!

  2. your joking right by Celt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    as much as everyone loves http traffic, its not going to overtake the likes of bittorrent traffic anytime soon (unless of course ISP's start blocking all P2P related traffic)

    --
    "WebTV: bringing the Internet into the shallow end of the gene pool since 1995" - Martin Bishop
  3. That'll be AJAX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    HTTP (Hyper Text Transfer Protocol, aka Web traffic) had for the first time in four years overtaken P2P traffic

    That'll be because AJAX has lead to a massive increase in HTTP traffic. How much traffic do the Web 2.0 "applications" from Google alone generate, do you think?

    Many people have been saying that Web 2.0 is an utterly wasteful way to do things. There's the proof. Now can we stop building Web 2.0 "applications", please?

    1. Re:That'll be AJAX by Phil+John · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sure,

      when the public decides that they'd like to go back to waiting for a page-refresh to be able to do anything. When I first got a Gmail account I re-activated a long-dormant HoTMaiL account to compare it with and the difference in speed was like day and night.

      Web 2.0 may be quite wasteful in the amount of traffic being sent, but in these days of streaming video sites like YouTube we're talking about a drop in the ocean.

      IMHO the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. To all the naysayers that opine about what to do when you don't have any net access, we're also moving into an era where you can, with a few caveats, be always on the net wherever you are. I live in the UK and with HSDPA, 3G and GPRS coverage I have a link to the internet about 98-99% of the time as I move about throughout the day. Accessing Web 2.0 apps via Opera Mobile on my Vario II is more than bearable (esp. with the new "grab and scroll" feature in 8.65). With the new crop of mobile AJAX apps being developed for the iPhone things could start getting very interesting.

      --
      I am NaN
    2. Re:That'll be AJAX by dintech · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have to read my mail somehow, you know, it's not like I see the login page and leave satisfied.

      With all the spam I have to deal with, I think I'd leave more satisfied just with the login page.

    3. Re:That'll be AJAX by arivanov · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You are painting a very entertaining rosy picture as far as the UK is concerned.

      So let's see one day when I actually need a mobile access and the reality of mobile data in the UK not through pink mobile operator marketing glasses. So let's see shall we?

      1. Get up, sync the laptop, leave the house - so far nothing mobile, do not need it.
      2. Get on the train to Cambridge to London train. Try to connect to the net. Available GPRS timeslots at the Camrbidge railway station - around 2 (Vodafone and O2 are roughly the same here). Available capacity before 9am - 0bytes per second. The cretinous f***heads at the operator end QoS up the Blackberry traffic so if you have a train full of business people the capacity for the other data users is 0. Slightly better after 9, but still abissmall. 3G is a tad bit better, but this is temporary due to the low penetration of the 3G BB.
      3. Train Cambridge to London - no 3G coverage half of the time, GPRS coverage around 1 timeslot when available. 6+ tunnels most of them long enough to cause a VPN timeout and cause a reconnect (3G is slightly better due to soft handover here, but it is not available). Overall - just about usefull to reply a couple of emails. Browse? You gotta be kidding. In the morning - totally impossible due to BB eating all capacity. After that - about as bad as browsing on a 14400 modem.
      4. London - tube. No coverage. Whatsoever. The sole reason that our best beloved Mayor is a greedy c***. London tube refuses to put DAS or picocells because they want to give it exlcusively to a single operator and shave the profits. There is a ruling by the competition comission that this is not acceptable so the tube simply does not put any access in. Result - no access. 3G or no 3G.
      5. Arrive wherver - no need for 3G or GPRS as there is network and/or wireless.

      So overall - out of the 4h a day when I needed GPRS/3G coverage I got on the average around 10Kbit per second and it was unavailable half of the time. That is not service you can rely on. That is sh*te.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    4. Re:That'll be AJAX by Intron · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Loading the whole page gets twenty "item unchanged, already in cache" and one new piece. So pressing a button may create a load on your browser to redraw the whole page, but not that much bandwidth.

      Web 2.0 applications seem to like maintaining a connection and continuously downloading some piece of meaningless crap. One travel site I was on recently was refreshing so much that my PC was practically unuseable. The page wasn't actually changing, just being continuously "updated".

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    5. Re:That'll be AJAX by Ephemeriis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      AJAX actually allows you to, if you want, transfer less data. Gmail, for example, does not need to transmit an entire new page every time I open up a new email message...it just displays the contents of that message. Sure, caches and proxies and all that good stuff can reduce the actual amount of traffic generated by a full-page refresh...but it's still a full-page refresh, you're still requesting a redraw of every single picture and every bit of text - rather than just asking to redraw a small portion.

      The reason AJAX is indirectly responsible for an increase in HTTP traffic is because the web is becoming more useful. Gmail and other AJAXy webmail systems are just about as responsive and feature-rich as their traditional desktop counterparts. Message boards and chat systems are becoming more useful and responsive, replacing Usenet and IM clients in places. We've got web-based word processors, spreadsheets, and paint programs. All sorts of stuff is going online now, just because we can. It isn't that AJAX is wasteful, it's that AJAX let's us do so much useful/fun stuff.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    6. Re:That'll be AJAX by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your comment makes me believe that you've never had to think about these issues when designing a real-world application. You've no doubt done zero real-world tests to see what the difference in traffic comes out to (our logs show AJAX saving us considerable bandwidth...we've basically halved our bandwidth per user since AJAXifying our site) We recently investigated moving from an old BBS-style application that users used as a talker (accessed via SSH) to an AJAX web-app. For a single day, the traffic was around 300MB; more than the total SSH (not counting SCP) traffic of the machine for an entire month, with fewer uses on the AJAX version. It was also far more than the XMPP server that runs on the same machine and has an order of magnitude more uses manages to get through.

      Of course AJAX is an improvement over reloading the entire page. I don't dispute that at all. The discussion, however, was an AJAX webmail app, versus a local mail app and an IMAP server. If you honestly think that the AJAX app is a better choice here for bandwidth, then I hope I never have to use an app you've designed on a low bandwidth connection.

      Hell, you're probably one of those tinfoil-hat-browse-the-web-with-javascript-turned- off types and are just upset that the web is becoming less and less accessible to you

      Ah, argumentum ad hominem. A perfect way to make your point. No, I don't browse with JavaScript disabled (although I do turn off plugins most of the time). Yes I have evaluated AJAX apps in real world usage. They do better than a lot of non-AJAX web sites, but as I said, they don't come close to the same efficiency as a local app in a lot of cases. Ty running a web-based IM client and compare that to an XMPP client, for example. Even though XMPP is a fairly bloated protocol to start with, you get a lot less bandwidth used by the local app, for the same functionality.

      In some cases, such as a corporate Intranet where bandwidth isn't an issue and ease of maintenance is, an AJAX web-app might be the best choice. Similarly, they make good fall-backs for when you are using someone else's computer. It's all about choosing the right tool for the job. AJAX is not the right tool for every job, and there seems to be a growing belief that it is.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  4. Nitpicking by TorKlingberg · · Score: 4, Informative

    P2P is not one protocol, but many. Some P2P systems, such as Gnutella, even use HTTP for file transfers.

  5. So true by vivaoporto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A lot of P2P applications even uses http in one phase or another of its execution, what is the case of bittorrent clients communication with trackers, that is done over using http requests.

    What they might be implying is that the so called "legitimate" traffic (casual WWW surfing) is outpacing filesharing. Ironically, this growing is due the popularization of tools that allow users to share the files via www, tools like Youtube and Flickr (and pornotube, *cough*) that they would share via P2P applications like Kazaa, Napster or IMesh.

    Bottom line is: people don't care about the tools, but about the use they do to the tools. Nothing to see here, move along.

  6. When TOR and Freenet unite in p2p... by barwasp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    encrypted and anonymous distributed p2p protocol will dominate forever and anti-pirates will be assimilated

    1. Re:When TOR and Freenet unite in p2p... by graphicsguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That seems totally incorrect to me. If anonymizing makes things k times slower with current disk/network speeds, it will still make things k times slower when disks/networks are faster.

  7. If I was designing a P2P network today by Colin+Smith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It'd be http based. Not for efficiency or any technical reason, but because it's the best camouflage.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:If I was designing a P2P network today by Selfbain · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is that you Yoda?

      --
      Well, it has never been successfully tested.
    2. Re:If I was designing a P2P network today by diamondsw · · Score: 2, Informative

      It'd be http based. Not for efficiency or any technical reason, but because it's the best camouflage.

      Welcome to layer 5-7 packet inspection on modern firewalls. You're screwed.

      --
      I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
  8. conflict of interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ellacoya are well-known for selling routers optimised (and I use that word with the kind of looseness only Goatse man can convey) for bandwidth shaping, in particular for throttling P2P. PlusNet were one of the first ISPs in the UK to be hated for widespread deployment of their kit.

    Remember, a press release is almost always marketing; and this form of marketing is about getting people to purcahse solutions for problems that don't quite exist as described. (Microsoft are good at this; Google are first rate.)

  9. 2 reasons by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Youtube (and similar services) and trojans.

    Both rely heavily on HTTP for data transfer. But then again, how do you measure that? By port? By header? Who keeps me from running a HTTP server on port 21? Who dictates that I must not wrap a package into a HTTP header so the corporate firewall doesn't get irate?

    Generally, I doubt that you can reliably measure it. Especially with P2P services soon implementing a wrapper to fool anti net-neutrality laws and traffic shaping the various ISPs either will implement soon or employ already.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:2 reasons by garcia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Youtube (and similar services) and trojans.

      Botnets mostly. They are continually hammering my site with 100s of hits in a few minutes and because they are from across the globe (mostly residential cable connections) I can't ban them fast enough.

      I keep them mostly out with the Apache rules linked to above but they are still hammering me.