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US Expands Airport Biometric Data Collection
athloi sends word of an expansion of the US-VISIT program that now requires two fingerprints from foreign visitors arriving at scores of airports. Beginning later this year the US will be testing a system that collects 10 digital fingerprints, at 10 major points of entry. A US Homeland Security director assured EU officials that the program would operate under strict privacy rules. But he noted that the FBI and CIA will have access to the biometric data, which over time may expand beyond fingerprints.
Suicide bombers don't care if you take their fingerprints or not. This is just means to get rid of people with liberal thoughts. And to create a false sense of security for the Sheep.
I would seriously consider never coming to the USA again. It's not that I have a huge concern with collecting information about non-citizen civilians, but that I would not trust DHS in any way, especially when it comes to technology. But hey, at least the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Government Oversight game them a security grade of "D" this year. That's better than an "F" anyway :(
~cromar
It accomplishes even less than that. All the 9/11 terrorists had valid ID and weren't on watch lists.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
quote : "which over time may expand beyond fingerprints." What do they want in addition ? A retina scan ? a DNA sample ? WHAT FOR ?!?!? And why in the ninth hell, WE (the rest of the world) are not forcing the US to eat their own fudge at our frontier ? I find Brasil example to be a good one.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
It's nice to be overlooked at times like this.
Since US Customs agents are in most major Canadian airports, we're pre-screened and don't come through "international" arrival gates... so anyone boarding in Canada won't get checked.
Great job, security folks...
---
Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman
If they're dangerous enough to be on a "watch list" why aren't we arresting them when we catch them?
Oh, too dangerous to be allowed in
You've been rejected at this border point. Please try another border point for entry.
I'm sure that there are few on this thread that believe that this will help defeat terrorism. And I don't suppose it will improve the tourist trade very much either. I'm glad that America is the home of the brave; I cannot imagine what they might do if they were frightened...
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
If they ever did deploy it at all airports, seaports, and road border checkpoints, any terrorists on the watch list would just hire a "coyote" and be escorted across the southern border.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Foreign nationals will be required to fit a GPS tracking collar to their necks at points of entry...
Engineering is the art of compromise.
while we're busy trying to keep out the tourists and business people, we're also trying to pass laws which allow those who entered illegally to stay!
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
How so? If "bad guy" show up at a U.S. Customs checkpoint in an U.S. airport, and is denied entry, wouldn't he have to take another flight immediately to somewhere else, or back home?
Would this flight be cheap? Most likely not.
If "bad guy" already had a round trip ticket, would the airline make him pay a "change fee" to immediately reschedule his flight? Most likely.
Affect the bottom line of the airline? Doesn't look like it.
Ramen
Indeed. Businesses will lose out because international partners won't be as interested (or able) to fly to the States for face-to-face meetings.
In my field, research science, the effects of the strict US rules are very apparent. Foreign scientists are having a harder and harder time coming to the US to study, collaborate, or even go to a conference. Scientists are being denied visas or putting on long waiting lists (so that they miss the conference!). The end result is a decrease in the amount of scientific collaborations between US groups and those outside the US, and more emphasis being put on non-US conferences (in Europe, Canada, Japan, etc.).
This is having a real (though difficult to measure) impact on US science. In a subtle way, there is a decrease in the flow of "advanced technical knowledge" into the US, which is to the detriment of US labs. Through these border policies, the US is isolating itself. Since ultimately science and technology are big drivers of the US economy, I see this as a very poor choice on the part of the US administration.
I forget who it was that wrote the prophetic words:
"One does not speak so much of freedom as in a place where it has ceased to exist"
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
What I don't understand is how ANY sort of flying restriction is going to stop a determined attacker. What's to stop somebody from landing (a watercraft) somewhere along the enormous coastline of Hudson's Bay, and simply hoofing it through the Canadian wilderness to the US border and just walking into the country? If you're intent on blowing yourself up surely a little hiking isn't going to be a huge deterrent. And you get to see some beautiful country before you off yourself.
I'm a firm believer that in order to "defeat" terrorism, we need to prevent any attacks on US soil first and foremost. If that means limiting access to the US, then so be it.
Please explain how fingerprinting the entire world will prevent a terrorist attack? I'd really love to hear your reasoning.
The ONLY thing it will do is help if such fingerprints are later found on bomb fragments, or in a terrorist "house", etc. And it will tie a set of fingerprints to an "alias" (I assume terrorists don't travel under their real names). But terrorists are cheap, and especially nowadays there are a LOT of them, thanks to the US' brilliant middle east peace plan over the past few years.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Nothing like getting some special attention from a "security" agency when entering the country.
Thats ok. The US dollar is sinking, the US economy is stagnating, the US government thinks it can talk tough and fight wars on concepts with no consequences. Wait. The reckoning is coming soon. All the money is leaving the US, since the real growth is happening in Russia, India and Asia.
But look on the bright side - when the US is no longer a world leader, I guess no one will want to target it anymore.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I get the point, alright. It seems the rest of the world are more interested in visiting places other than the USA!
Oh, and PS. It's not insignificant. ~1% of direct GDP accounts for a hell of a lot of indirect employment. Many, many people in your country would be up the creek without the proverbial paddle, claiming jobless assistance and generally severely weakening your economy in a quite short time.
I'm a student from India. I've been studying physics here, first as an undergrad and now as PhD student. I've also had the privilege of traveling to a fair number of countries (with the family or for research) in my relatively short life. Let me share my fun experiences with the US-VISIT program.
You land at one of the big international airports, for me O'Hare or Logan (both of which will be on this extended program). You have your passport with visa, an I-20 from your school and a filled out I-94 card ready. There are several queues, usually about 3-4 dedicated to American citizens, and a comparable number for foreigners. There is typically a lot more of the latter than the former so the queues meant for American citizens are typically empty, while the remaining queues are long and winding. I've seen a few elderly people faint during the wait in the queue before. There isn't any place to sit, and no way to get water. They've already been on long flights - the one from Madras, India where I am from usually takes ~20+ hrs with layovers.
You wait inching forward, and eventually you get to the yellow line - make sure you stand behind the yellow line (if you have a toe over you will likely get screamed at) until the Immigration official deigns to examine your papers. Not you mind - they never look at you - only your papers.
They always ask you what your name and the purpose of your visit is (never mind its on all three documents you've given them). Eventually they ask for your fingerprint. Left index finger. Scanner doesn't register that right. Do it again. Right index finger. Now pose for your mugshot. Now its going to be all ten fingers. I'm waiting for the DNA sample requests. As an added bonus they can ask you to boot your laptop up to take a look at it (the poor dears look so very confused by a slackware based distro with fluxbox)
I can tell you what US-VISIT v2.0 won't do. It won't make you safer or stop threats to the US of A from crossing your border. It hasn't so far. If it had we'd have heard about it. Going from two fingerprints to ten won't do shit either. Where the evil terrorists somehow able to defeat a hash from just two fingerprints? Can you somehow identify me to a higher confidence level now that you have all ten fingerprints instead of two? Making it ten fingers still isn't going to help unless there is some database with a bunch of terrorists with the fingerprints on file to check against. With two you can prevent people coming in under a different name. Funny how many of the 9/11 terrorists had to do that...
With ten fingerprints you can share more with other countries and see who has been visiting nasty places like Afghanistan to go to those evil terrorist training camps except that no other country I've ever visited collected my fingerprints. Ever. Nor have they made me wait in long queues to get in either. Occasionally they've even smiled at me! When we went to Canada for an APS conference in 2003, the border guard never checked my passport or visa (there was another Indian, and a Nigerian in our van along with three Americans) and joked about not bringing too many mini-kegs back with us.
I can tell you the effect this will have - it will increase the length of those queues. It will annoy more people. People who want to do business here. People who are old and want to just see their family, and have to wait in a line for two damn hours to be welcomed to America by a surly immigration official. Those people will stop coming. If everyone stops coming you will be safer! Its going to cost you and me more money (I get to pay taxes here too) since most of these airports won't be able to handle the load if a large number of international flights get here around the same time and will need larger waiting areas. It will probably create some new jobs for people who want to be surly immigration officials. And its going to get some DHS official a pat on the back and a promotion for actively fighting the terrorists. Lets not kid ourselves - that is what its about.
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
Because it won't defeat terrorism.
Try to remember that terrorism is not an import. Before 9/11 we had Timothy McVeigh, the Unabomber, Eric Rudolph, and host of serial killers and mass murderers that were entirely homegrown. Fingerprinting all civilians inserts the impression that all are suspect, and creates a strong resentment towards the people in power who appear to be immune from suspicion. Increased restrictions on freedom (yes, that's the same "freedom" our president claims to be protecting) only reinforces resentment, and this can lead to an overtly hostile populace. Stop to consider that this very same populace is fed a steady stream of stories about government corruption and you have a fine recipe for revolt.
This is not the idea that is "America", this is a perversion.
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
<Obligatory trollish note> Given that a scarily high proportion of people in the US seem to think Intelligent Design is science, and three presidential candidates said on the record that they do not believe in evolution, I doubt these people have even noticed the decline in scientific advance, never mind questioned why it might be happening. </Obligatory trollish note>
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Procedures once you have landed seem to be about the same. Strangely or not strangely, Singapore has by far the friendliest airport and procedures, but of course, Singapore depends heavily on tourism.
I strongly resent being treated like an animal and then have the voice on the speaker at the end of the flight say, "I hope you enjoyed your flight, have a pleasant stay in the United States". Grrr.
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
I apologize in advance for the subsequent stream of obscenities, but I'm a lifelong Republican who feels eminently betrayed by his own party and the leaders of the conservative movement.
To start : Open the borders and make airports cool again. Tear down all the scanners and let people walk through the gates to see planes take off. Quit worrying that someone might blow up this or that and start focusing on making money. There are no terrorists hiding under your goddamn bed, so you can quit shitting in it every time you see the lights flicker. If you need big daddy government to make yourself feel safe, then you have no business calling yourself a Republican. Every Republican should stand up and demand that these pussies that co-opt our party be held to account. Conservatism is supposed to mean taking things in perspective, even in supposedly dire circumstances, with a confidence to handle your own affairs. There has been absolutely no perspective in this war, just overreaching knee jerk reactions like a woman burning down her house to get a mouse. Tell Anne Coulter that if she has to have this war on terror to feel safe, she ought to get back in the fucking kitchen and start making dinner like a good Republican dike is supposed to do.
The leaders of this conservative movement have completely failed, and I'm almost disgusted with myself that I even used to listen to the likes of Rush. "Oh, the terrorists are going to get us." Dude, I bench almost 300lbs. Bring that old f--- Bin Laden on, and I'll punch him in his fucked up kidney and that will be the end of him. Swagger, that's how you fight these people. Arrogant faith in freedom and delighting in our consumer lifestyle. This introspective, fearful war on terror is the most profoundly un-American response to any crisis that I have seen in my lifetime. Americans are not supposed to be afraid of anything, and here we are crying like a bunch of pansies because of some dude with a beard. Death! We all have to go. Get over it. If you believed in God as much as you said you do, you would not be afraid to die for freedom yourself, by the way, like you ask our soldiers to do.
I thought we already proved with the Cold War that backwards ideologies bring themselves down and that all we need to do is focus on making money to win. All of this crap that we hear about terrorists plotting this or that is the same shit we heard before about Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and more... (fill in the blank) secret agents are plotting to destroy the USA. Get off the Oxy, quit dreaming up conspiracies, and walk down the street confident that you can kick some terrorist ass or die trying if it comes down to it. I'd rather worry about the occasional arab that might look suspicious than every camera that surely is. I'm not afraid of no islamist, and neither should you be.
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