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Red Hat CEO Talked Patents with MS

c3ph45 writes "Before the Novel-Microsoft deal, Red Hat was in talks with Microsoft over patents. Thankfully, the deal fell apart before Novel made their infamous partnership with Microsoft. As has been reported before, Red Hat doesn't plan to enter into any patent agreements with Microsoft, but it leaves open the question: What if both Red Hat and Novell had entered into such deals? One large vendor doing so has caused enough disruption. How would the community have coped with two of the largest vendors doing so?"

12 of 126 comments (clear)

  1. Mass hysteria by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We would have coped the same as always, we would rant and rave and generally work ourselves into a tizz, then get back onto our normal day jobs.

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
    1. Re:Mass hysteria by Aladrin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hah, I was going to post 'The same way: Ridicule and disgust.'

      I think we are very quickly approaching the point where something has to break. Either the government steps up and admits that it doesn't give a shit, or people in general start to notice what is going on and there are major problems.

      (I know patents and copyrights are not the same thing, but they are symptoms of the same problem. Bear with me here.)

      The RIAA has started suing everyone and their grandmother (literally) and the general populace is starting to realize how unfair it is, and that the tactics the RIAA is using are -allowed- by the government.

      Patents are starting to prevent cool devices from existing, and threatening the ones we already have. (Blackberry.) There have been quite a few reports lately about 'x device will have to be disconnected because someone else hass a patent' etc. Discomfort enough people with money, and something is going to happen.

      Copyright is even starting to overstep its bounds and artists everywhere are finding themselves restricted instead of encouraged. Yes, they are still encouraged to innovate, but let's face it: Most art improves on other art, rather than being wholly original. Patents are starting to restrict them as well. Imagine if someone patented cel-shading or any other style. With our current system, that could be done.

      Things keep getting worse instead of better, and someone -will- step up and do something about it soon.

      "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -- Thomas Jefferson, emphasis mine.

      http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

      We've been a lot longer than 20 years without 'such a rebellion'.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Mass hysteria by simm1701 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem with films like fight club is that people watch them, people agree with them, people think "wow, that's so true, I really should be more like that and challenge the system"

      Then they go back to their lives, following the rules, working a job they hate to earn money they don't want to buy stuff they don't need.

      Call me cynical but I can't see that changing any time soon.

      --
      $_="Slashdotter";$syn="OTT";s;..;;;sub _{print shift||$_};s!ash!Perl !;s=$syn=ack=i;tr+LLEd+BLAH+;_"Just Another ";_
    3. Re:Mass hysteria by WilliamSChips · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with the NRA is that they say they need guns to fight off tyranny but essentially define tyranny as not having guns.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  2. so wtf? (FTFA) by bl8n8r · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In an interview with Reuters, Szulik declined to say whether
    his company is now in negotiations with Microsoft over signing
    such a patent agreement.

    "I can't answer the question," he said.

    --
    boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
    1. Re:so wtf? (FTFA) by kripkenstein · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Not only did Red Hat's Szulik say "I can't answer that question" about whether he was in negotiations with Microsoft, but Microsoft "couldn't be reached for a comment" according to TFA. So, it is a safe bet there are discussions.

      But that shouldn't be surprising. Red Hat said, after all, that

      "We continue to believe that open source and the innovation it represents should not be subject to an unsubstantiated tax that lacks transparency."
      - they never said "no deals with Microsoft about patents." And rightly so - the problem with the Novell-Microsoft deal is exactly that it is a vague 'innovation tax', mentions no actual patents, and is therefore completely nontransparent. Other deals regarding patents could be different.

      A patent deal in which, say, Red Hat license specific WMA-related patents in order to ship WMA-playing software legally is 'reasonable' - at least assuming that that particular software is not GPL (or, if it is, if the patent license applies to all users of the software, not just Red Hat customers). I say 'reasonable' using scare quotes because this is reasonable only under the current highly-problematic US patent system. But, given that system, if Red Hat want to ship certain products, they must reach agreements concerning their patent holders. A sad fact of life.

      (Note: I have no idea if WMA is patented, or not. This is just an example for illustration purposes.)
  3. Re:Slow news day? by eclectro · · Score: 4, Funny

    Slashdot has now become the place to post hypothetical questions just for discussion on the main page? It's Microsoft's fault, not slashdot's. They're the ones with the hypothetical patents.
    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  4. Can't Cope, Clown'll Eat Me by CheeseburgerBrown · · Score: 4, Funny

    "How would the community have coped with two of the largest vendors doing so?"

    This isn't a particularly well-angled question, in my opinion. The answers are too obvious. The community would cope by...

    * Printing up obscure if arguably quasi-witty T-shirts with phrases on them like "PATENTS == MURDER" or "LESSIG SIGNED MY TITS" or "THE BORG HAVE THE RED BOX!"

    * Posting foaming diatribes to hot-spots of cultural influence like the ass-end of a deeply nested thread on Slashdot or, worse, on a crappy, template-raped personal weblog and then spammed via Digg.

    * Ruining a potentially good date by trying to lecture the poor girl about the GPL.

    * Catharsis through extra masturbation.

    * News: Red Hat and Microsoft strike a deal. Not-news: Some geek writes a snarky headline about it on Fark. Take THAT, Redmond!

    * Lego re-enactments of famous scenes from movies re-written to reflect the patent deal situation, uploaded to YouTube. "Luke, I am your patent holder." "Noo-o-o-o-o-ooo-oo!"

    * LOL i haz ur intellec2al properdy portpholeo!!11!!11

    Oh yeah, baby -- it'd be like the Million Man March all over again.

  5. Microsoft wants to build a Linux Licensing busines by pieterh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This has been clear for ages. See my article on Digital Majority.

    Linux (and all the free software it supports) is a compelling technology that underpins huge new markets. Microsoft wants to tax these markets. It has been accumulating patents, and lobbying for software patents in Europe, and investing in Intellectual Ventures, to create the necessary tools. It has decided the time is right to move. Its strategy is to divide and conquer the Linux community, by making deals with the commercial vendors. The deals don't need to be patent deals, they just need to allow Microsoft to pump some money into the companies in question, so they become slaved to Microsoft's policies. This is a standard operating procedure for MSFT.

    The real targets are the large Linux users - big business. These firms will be asked politely but with force to pay a MS tax on Linux, in the name of "interoperability" and "intellectual property". The carrot will be interoperability with Microsoft's stacks, the stick will be that wallet of "infringements".

    Above all, Microsoft wants to make life hard for IBM: its fear and loathing of IBM underpins its strategy in the Linux space.

    There are two big problems with Microsoft's strategy:

    One, it has moved too soon and too aggressively, probably scared by the GPLv3, and has created serious anger with those large firms it's supposed to be gaining as "Linux customers".

    Second, it is playing games with an industry - the patent industry - that is more evil even than Microsoft. By feeding the trolls, it's sowing the seeds of its own departure from the software business.

    Three, it is forcing IBM to move to action against Microsoft. The Open Invention Network (OIN) can be seen as a direct counter to Intellectual Ventures, which although highly secretive about its investors, most likely runs on MSFT cash.

    Red Hat will, IMO, eventually make a deal with Microsoft, as will Canonical. The deal won't mention patents at all, but it will come to the same: cash flowing from Microsoft to Linux vendors, in sufficient quantities that they will be forced to play nice with Microsoft's plans.

  6. Debian is power by wikinerd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We have Debian. The community existed before commercial interests took notice of us and we do not need any commercial vendor. SUSE, RedHat, and any other commercial vendor could file for bankruptcy without affecting the GNU/Linux community at all. Our power lies in cooperation, volunteerism, and our love for free software. We don't need money to keep our community alive, because it is based on ideology and love for technology. I moved all of my SUSE-based servers and machines to Debian after the Novell patent deal.

  7. Novel is not totally evil yet by roemcke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The way I see it, only entering a patent deal is not necessary bad. (except for giving MS money and FUD ammo.) The problems only starts the moment you include patented stuff into GPL'd software.

    Without the patent deal, if you by mistake include patented stuff, you will anger the authors of free software AND risk being sued to death by Microsoft. With the deal, MS can't touch you. You only have to find a way to please the authors of any GPL'd code you may have distributed. History has shown that if it only was an honest mistake, they tend to have small demands. Just remove the offending code and everyone will most likely be happy.

  8. red hat's official statement by spevack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Disclosure: I work on the Fedora Project. I am employed by Red Hat, but I am not in corporate communications. However, here is the official statement that was issued by that group:

    "Red Hat has only recently been able to see some of the terms of the original Microsoft/Novell deal, due to the belated and redacted SEC filings that were made. Based on what we have seen, the deal is not interesting to us. Red Hat continues to believe that open source and the innovation it represents should not be subject to an unsubstantiated tax that lacks transparency."

    My own thoughts, that are not necessarily those of my employer:

    CEOs have to be very careful about what they say in public, especially in this day and age in the US business world. Sometimes a "no comment" is the only safe answer. Personally, I do not believe Red Hat would ever make a Novell-style deal. I can't even begin to express how angry and disappointed I would be with Red Hat, and Mr. Szulik, if such a deal were to ever happen. But I don't stay up at night worrying about it, because I trust Red Hat's CEO and top management to do the right thing.