Slashdot Mirror
Drugs to Prevent Cell Suicide
MrErlenmeyer writes "Many injuries and diseases including heart attacks, stroke, and Parkinson's cause healthy cells to kill themselves. A group of scientists at Washington University in Saint Louis believe they have a lead on how to stop apoptosis (unwanted cell suicide) and thus minimize the tissue damage that occurs as a result of these injuries. They designed drugs that halt the actions of executioner caspases, proteins that act as a molecular wrecking crew. Other scientists had found that a chemical called isatin could prevent tissue damage in rabbit hearts that were deprived of oxygen. This was the starting point for the team of researchers in Missouri. By making some changes to the molecule, they were able to develop an even more effective molecule. With some further refinement, this may lead to a new class of emergency medications."
Since cancer is uncontrolled cell growth, has increased risk for cancer been looked at?
Cessation of programmed cell death is often called cancer.
I'm sure they have all sorts of good research and know lots about this, and I freely grant that a 10x increase in your chances of getting cancer somewhere down the line beats Parkinson's, but this still sounds really scary.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
As stated in the second paragraph of the article, apoptosis is simply the process of cell death--a something perfectly normal and required by the body. Hardly "unwanted"! See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apoptosis
The summary characterizes apoptosis as unwanted cell suicide which, in most cases, it most certainly is not. Apoptosis is one of the natural mechanisms by which the body eliminates cells which have become damaged, dysfunctional, or are simply no longer needed.
Especially with respect to cancer research apoptosis is a pathway which we seek to activate. Cells which become cancerous are supposed to enter apoptotic cycles and prevent themselves from creating tumors within the tissue. Cancerous cells manage to win the race condition between apoptotic and survival pathways but, in terms of the mechanisms at work within the cell, are tottering on the edge. Many new cancer treatments rely on this on the edge circumstance in the interest of introducing a pharmacologically active substance into the body which will cause cancerous cells, on the edge of apoptosis, to move fully into apoptotic function.
Since the cells in the body are constantly in a state of self-regulation and interregulation it is possible that cells which enter apoptosis too easily are similarly causes of diseases. It is this set of conditions that the researchers in the article wish to treat.
Don't be misled about what apoptosis actually is, though, or be swayed to view it as good or bad. Different conditions within the tissue call for different actions within the cells which make up that tissue.
the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
In other news: if you care about your daughter, get her vaccinated for HPV.
If you care about other people's daughters, get your son vaccinated for HPV too.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Most suicide attempts are cries for help, you know.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
This is a cure for death, unless I'm badly mistaken. This relates to ischemia and other avenues of organ failure. This will lead to some pretty interesting stuff in the future.
Best regards.
Why would you want to stop prisoners killing themselves? It would save tax-payers millions, and would be a much more effective form of justice than today's "OK you ran over a granny whilst drunk and stoned off your head on your way back from a bank robbery, you're sentenced to six months with sky TV, pool table and gym, out in two months due to good behaviour, plus free benefits if you can't be bothered working" form of justice that is doled out today, in Britain at least.
Boy, this has got "Unintended Consequences" written all over it. Seriously, I hope that this works brilliantly and the thousands of sufferers of Parkinson's disease etc. are able to be helped by this, but it seems like it could be a very shiny wrapper around an all new Pandora's box.
Any plan which depends on a fundamental change in human behavior is doomed from the start.
I am probably going to get Alzheimer's disease (my grandfather had it, and it skips a generation). Insight prevention/treatment of it happens slowly. I hope this is different.
Apoptosis is a natural cell mechanism, and one of our bigger problems (cancer) is caused when cells _fail_ to commit suicide.
I suppose apoptosis-preventing drugs might have their place, but don't smoke or try to get a tan while you're taking them.
When I saw the headline, I thought "Wha? Somehow they've come up with drugs that target depressed prisoners?" Then I RTF summary and, eventually, RTFA. Parent's pretty funny. Though I could have done it better.
If you care about other people's daughters, get your son vaccinated for HPV too. Or, if you DON'T care about other people's daughters, campaign against the vaccine for political reasons. Because nothing says "moral principles" like wanting kids to die from a preventable disease!
there's a good emo joke in here somewhere.
Your plantar warts are HPV, but not the form of HPV prevented by the vaccine.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
All my cells are filled with emo-globin.
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
They don't recommend that as yet. However, it seems like you'd get more milage out of recommending vaccinnating the ones who can be most directly hurt by the disease.
I agree, this rush to drugs to treat suicidal cells is just going to create a generation of drug-dependent artificially happy zombie cells, and the last thing I want is for my cells to be wandering aimlessly around my body with a perma-grin, glazed eyes, and an irresistible urge to eat my delicious brain. Psychotherapy should be tried before resorting to drugs. Even if drugs are determined to be the best course, they should still be coupled with regular therapy sessions.
If you care about other people's daughters, get your son vaccinated for HPV too. I even care about internet pornstars, I'm vaccinating my dog, horse, goat and pig for HPV.
Your body currently has a bunch of cancerous cells here and there throughout. But you'll probably live a long, healthy life, and never be diagnosed with cancer. Why? Because apoptosis (among other cell processes) helps kill the cells that are off-track and FUBARed.
This technique better be applied very specifically to cells and not "generally" to a mass of tissue, otherwise you'll be making the equivalent of a petri dish (read: idealized growing environment) for cancer.
:side effect may include nausea, vomiting, and super cancer:
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
The cop took me to the jail, he says, "Kid, I'm gonna put you in the cell, I need your wallet and your belt."
I says, "I understand you want my wallet so I don't have any money to spend in the cell, but why do you need my belt?"
He says, "kid, we don't want any hangings." Of course, he was just making sure, because he also took out the toilet seat so I couldn't hit myself over the head and drown.
Unknown host pong.
If there were an approved treatment for males that might make more sense.
BTW: The seemingly ultra-religious, daddy's-little-angel types have sex in high school, too. They are just better at lying about it.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Men can get vaccinated. The FDA approved the vaccine for women, but it can be prescribed off-label for men. Doctors prescribe medicine off-label all the time.
I saw the subject and thought that they'ed invented a drug to prevent prisoners to stop commiting suicide. Then i read a sentence or two further and saw that how off base I was. Never the less, i'll comment about it.
A bit offtopic but, did anyone else think this sounds like a plot device for a zombie movie?
--Not to be worried, Pitr fix.
Those drugs don't have anything to do with contagious diseases, so they are not a public health issue. You fail at logic. And at love for your own children. You have so much to be proud of.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
First of all, this doesn't seem like a huge deal. By the time you get to the hospital, most of the cells that are going to die are already undergoing apoptosis (BTW, that's programmed cell death and not necessarily unwanted cell death). The other issue is that hypoxia also causes cell necrosis, which is another form of cell death that's completely different from apoptosis and wouldn't be saved by this kind of drug.
The major issue, however, is simply that most of the cells that are going to die are irreparably damaged byt he time you get to the hospital. They ER will likely give you drug thinners and do whatever else is needed to get oxygen supply back. Not that this drug wouldn't be somewhat helpful, but I'd be really surprised if there's any great improvement in the % of lives saved. And any life saved is certainly worth the effort, but I just don't see this as a major breakthrough.
Now, show me a drug that can selectively induce apoptosis in certain cells, and then we'd have a cure for most forms of cancer (most forms of cancer are the result of cells whose apoptosis pathway is failing for some reason), and that would be a big deal.
They should probably have a related reading link for the story posted in May regarding the discovered consequences of oxygen reperfusion in the human body.
Quick summary: Doctors and scientists are finding that the cells of the heart and brain are still alive after clinical death, but they go into a dormant state. Jolting them back with oxygen and adrenaline after 4-5 minutes seems to kill the otherwise still living cells. A trial run on 34 cardiac patients indicates a significant increase in CPR success when done in a very gradual and controlled manner after that 4-5 minute mark (about 80% success opposed to around 15% for traditional CPR techniques)
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
Drugs ? Emergency Medication? Over here!
Think of the applications for drowning victims too. Especially here in Canada where in the winter you're not dead till you're warm and dead. Now there's a chance that if they flood you with this stuff and get you to a local hospital there's a good chance of no/less brain or heart damage.
-Ours is the wisdom of Solomon, the magic of Merlyn, the fall of Icaris.
Considering that this is a transient treatment, the problem with cancer will probably depend on the length of the treatment, which probably would not lead to a very large increase in cancer rates. There is still a lot of ground to cover for cancerous cells to become malignant (angiogenesis, telomere limits) and these sorts of things take decades of accumulated mutation and selection.
A three month suppression of apoptosis and then a return to homeostasis is probably safer than a three month vacation to Hawaii, after which the genetic damage is permanent.
During the time of your treatment, numerous almost-cancer cells get to be cancer cells.
You're not going to keep taking this drug, are you? Take it once, it wears off... that's not a lot of time for nasty things to grow.
Apoptosis is not "unwanted cell suicide". Apoptosis is an essential part of growth and maintenance of organisms. Without apoptosis, your body would be a lump of flesh. If you simply turned off apoptosis in adulthood, your immune system would go haywire, viruses would proliferate, and so would cancer cells.
Some specific forms of apopotosis may be harmful in some cases, but that's rare.
Think and read before replying -- apoptosis is, under normal circumstances, a good thing. The whole reason it says "emergency medication" is because that's the type of medication this knowledge would be used for. When cells don't get oxygen for whatever reason (let's say, pulmonary or cardiac failure of some sort), they start to die off. So you'd inject them with some of this if you couldn't get their heart started in time to prevent cell death, or in a similar situation. Seriously, haven't you people ever watched House!? It's never lupus.
Don't blame me -- I voted for Roslin.
Nobody is demanding that the vaccine be banned.
We just don't want the government demanding that weird concoctions be injected into our bodies.
Is that so bad?
In any case, railing against the HPV vaccine is ridiculous. It's like urging people not to wear seat belts, because the only way to prevent all injuries from car accidents is to avoid cars entirely. The fact is, most of us will ride in a car at some point in our lives, and we'd better know how to keep ourselves as safe as possible when that happens.
Your daughter will have sex at some point in her life. Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll wait till she's married, but what are you going to say if, for example, her husband cheats on her and she gets HPV from him? Blame him all you want, but that isn't going to cure her HPV. Or maybe you won't get so lucky, and god forbid, she'll get raped on the way to school. All the preaching in the world won't help there. So why don't you just go ahead and shut your self-righteous fucking pie hole and let the grownups talk. With an attitude like that, I'm guessing you aren't one of them.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Linky
In short, just because your heart stops beating doesn't mean your cells are going to die anytime soon. Cells are undergoing (committing?) apoptosis when oxygen is reintroduced, after they have been deprived for 5 minutes or so.
If we could prevent apoptosis, we could conceivably restore life to a person who has been dead for hours. I wonder if that could time could be stretched even further under cold temperatures.
Yes, I am a smart ass; it's better than the alternative.
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
Even if I did want to have unprotected sex with a different person each day, it's my right to take the risk.
I can also choose to go hang-gliding, or would you ban that too? My life, my choice. Butt out.
Shall I run your life? I'd love to: No smoking anywhere, no alcohol ever, no usage of vehicles or sharp knives, floss your teeth after every meal, wear a helmet at all times, take your vitamins, no Sun exposure ever (even via windows), eat your broccoli and Brussels sprouts, no soda or coffee, drink 12 glasses of water every day, stay at least 20 feet away from staircases, monthly colonoscopy exam...
For myself, I prefer freedom. For you, there are certain things required for your own good. I can't have you making bad decisions.
Seriously, if you have someone so stupid and so lacking in self discipline that they are willing to get some pussy or some cock, even if it kills them, then do you even want these people to breed? Come on, if someone can't even keep in their pants when faced with a possible shot at death, then, really, isn't it unreasonable assume that they are innately unreliable for everything else?
This is my sig.
Shooting: active, death can be made certain
No vaccine: passive, death unlikely, no harm at all if I'm uninfected, no harm at all if I don't have sex WITH UNVACCINATED PEOPLE, any potential sex partner can choose the vaccine for themselves...
I mean gee, if it is so great, why don't my sex partners just get the vaccine? That'd work way better than me getting the vaccine, because they might have sex with other people too!
I agree, this rush to drugs to treat suicidal cells is just going to create a generation of drug-dependent artificially happy zombie cells,
Sounds like a joke, actually isn't. Cancer, which I think can very accurately be described as a collection of zombie cells, often deactivates the agents of apoptosis in order to function.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
There, I fixed that for you. Your analogies are terrible. I'm not endangering anybody against their will. Actually, you want to endanger me against my will. People do get severely injured and even killed by vaccine reactions.
It really doesn't hurt you if I get the disease, as long as you are protected by your vaccine. Maybe I just want to prevent the extinction of yet another species, offering myself to protect it. :-) Whatever, it's none of your business.