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Russia Claims Large Chunk of North Pole
kungfoofairy writes "Russia has laid claim to over one million square kilometers of the Artic. This announcement comes on the return of a scientific expedition into the region which found that the Lomonosov Ridge connects to Russia. The area is supposed to have a reserve of 10 billion tons of natural gas and oil. 'A BBC map shows Russia's proposal; this set of maps from The New York Times illustrates the area at stake and different ways it might be divided ... The Russians have tried to advance their claim before, and were turned away by the United Nations in 2001. The new geological data is evidently meant to improve the odds for a second try. '"
Countries that would get most by method one:
We like method 1!
Countries that would get most by method two:
No, method 2 is better!
Repeat every 6 years until the whole thing melts and/or people realise that country borders are arbitrary and their first responsibility should be to the human race.
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister
Russia is trying to expand the size of its energy hammer. It's nice to see that Putin is trying to bring back the good old times of the Cold War, MAD and Europe as ground zero for Russia's battle for world supremacy.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
And here I thought the North Pole was a single infinitely small point.
and then hold them accountable for preventing it from melting
if they can do that, they can keep it
i'm dead serious
and in my mind, i grant them wide latitude in what they can do to prevent it from melting
leadership and power is not static, something delivered form simple provenance. leadership and power is based on your ability to solve problems. it doesn't matter who solves global warming, but whomever does, goes the spoils of mankind's gratitude and fealty
but apparently, more people are interested in blame games and incriminations (on the left) and outright denial on the right. apparently, no one is interested in solutions. some guys proposed seeding dead areas of the ocean to increase carbon dioxide sequesterization, and they were opposed by environmentalists
you can't have it both ways folks: either global warming is a problem, and you want a solution, or global warming is not a problem, and it needs no solution. but you can't claim it's a problem, and then block any attempt at a solution. that's logically and morally unworkable. if you make noise about global warming, and block all attempts at solutions (hint: NO solution carries no risks or negative sideeffects) then you reveal yourself to believe in global warming only insofar that you can use it as a political football
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The whole thing is dumb! Why should a ridge in the sea floor 3000ft under water give anyone claim to anything above the water??? By that standard, anyone could lay arbitrary claim to anything on earth just because there was some sort of geographic similarity or geologic connection. Anyway, the other end of the ridge is connected to Canada so is the premise is valid, then Canada has just as much claim to the territory as Russia. Actually, I think a war should be fought to determine the owner...would be interesting history making to wage war in that type of environment...
...in its entire infinitesimal size!
This news has been all over the last couple of days and almost every story lays out the issue as "Russia claims Entire North Pole!!!" (or something similar), when in fact they have done no such thing.
i f/_42433630_arctic_ice_map416_3.gif) which shows their supposedly outrageous claim based on the sea-floor ridge argument. If one compares that to the more sedate, reasonable NYT analysis here: http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2005/10/09/inter national/20051010_ARCTIC_GRAPHIC_2.html... they are almost the same.
Ironically, the map most used to claim that "OMG! Russia wants it all!" is the one from the BBC (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42433000/g
Both of the "rational" divisions of the territory in the NYT story approximate the exact same area of the "outrageous" division that everyone is upset about. In fact they go a bit further in that they extend Russian territory all the way to the pole. Also, speaking as a Canadian, there is no way that the Russians would be able to claim "all of the arctic" in any event. Canada would fight before that happened (seriously).
It's also interesting that as recently as last year, the US was trying to claim that territory on the Canadian side of the pole was actually all theirs, but because this would be unlikely to anger anyone in the US, it was no big controversy about it in the media. Only in Canada did the idea of the US annexing territory at the North Pole that clearly belongs to Canada get any media play at all. It seems to me that this is really a non-story that is only getting media attention because it's those evil "Ruskies" doing it.
Yeah, but if they can sit on the oil long enough and wait for the REST of the world's oil to dry up (read: go way up in price) they can make a fortune off of it. Buy low (virtually free in this case), sell high!
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
At least the Russians try to make it valid, the US says they can sail through Canadian waters in the Arctic just because they can.
It worked, didn't it?
If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
While the Arctic is getting warmer thanks to our carbon economy, we are going to see more claims like that in the future as the area becomes more approachable. In the end, a war could take place just because a previously cold inaccessible area melted and revealed new resources (note that most of the Arctic is already controlled by either NATO or Russia). Perhaps, apart from the economic uses, Kremlin and the oligarchs want to install platforms with missiles nearer the North Pole, just to be prepared for the coming global warming wars. While homo economicus fscks up this solar system's only habitable planet, governments get ready for the next nuclear war. How uplifting...
Why do people mod things up just because they're anti-US?
Most of the world's major maritime powers agree with the US position that this is an international strait. If anything, it's Canada here that is acting unilaterally.
Although the OP is correct; the Canadians who depend on the US for their defense do not have the means to defend their claim even if they wanted to. That's reality for you I guess.
Karma: 2.71828182846 (Mostly due to small, fun pills)
Oh, give me a break. While this tactic may work in some cases, there's no escaping the fact that oil is a finite resource, and that at some point, your oil field will be empty.
There's nothing sinister about stopping production before you've exhausted an oil field, either. At some point, it simply gets too expensive to recover the remaining oil, because of contaminants leaking into the field, or because the remaining oil is too thick/viscous to be pumped up without heating it first, etc. As the price of oil rises, restarting production may become economically viable again. We're seeing this happen at a local oil field (Schoonebeek), btw. Production stopped in 1996, when about 25% of the known contents of the field were pumped out. They're considering restarting production now, and expect to recover another 15% (150 million barrels).