MS Moves R&D To Canada Due To Immigration Problem

telso writes "Microsoft will be opening a new software development center in Vancouver because of difficulties getting workers into the US. The company said the center will 'allow the company to continue to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by the immigration issues in the US' It seems possible that shrinking immigration quotas have affected America's tax and knowledge base."

Comments

The new steel-worker

[lawpoop]

The more and more I read, it looks like the software developer is the new steel worker. Sure, you need a four year education, but you as a worker are replaceable commodity. You'll be having to move to Canada, India, or the Czech Republic to get a decent paying job, or deal with substandard wages and an abusive work schedule that your unionized buddies don't have to put up with.

Re:ahem....

[Prune]

Calling Canada, and Vancouver of all places, backwater, is very insulting. Vancouver is near the top in the Mercer quality of life ratings for cities on Earth; the highest US city is not even in the top 20 (and it's Hawaii, not even continental US). http://www.mercerhr.com/referencecontent.jhtml?idC ontent=1128060#top50all And if you're going to critique Mercer, you better be able to back it up because their research is considered the standard given how widely used their services are.

Re: NOT TRUE

[Brad_sk]

I can see MS' point here. Things have just gotten worse for legal immigrants in last 1 or 2 years in US. Every step w.r.t visa issue will take months or years with no light at end of tunnel. For e.g., folks who are working currently can go out of status (for few weeks) since visa extension or renewal will take months. I am sure MS would use this site to keep its workers affected that way. I am a legal immigrant (H1 visa holder) and things have gotten horrible for tax paying, law abiding legal immigrants recently.

Re:I call BS

[*SECADM]

The summary is sensationalistic, and wrong. MS is not moving its R&D to canada, it is opening another development lab in Vancouver. And this has nothing to do with immigration visa issues, as it is trivial to get canadians to work in the US via NAFTA.

IBM, EA, ATI, AMD (just to name a few) all have huge labs in major cities in Canada. It's completely unsurprising for MS to finally follow suit and open a lab in Canada, where tech / engineering talents are aplenty. It's a bit surprising that they didn't open it near Waterloo, where a huge percentage of MS engineers are from... But Vancouver just makes more sense because of its proximity to Redmond.

BTW, a somewhat related article on CBC claims the Canada government is throwing money into luring back expat canadian tech workers down in the US:

"Meanwhile, the province is trying to lure back Canadians working south of the border. This summer, it is launching a $2-million program promoting new job opportunities, improved taxation and a higher dollar in their home country."

Draw your own conclusion at why MS is making this decision right after the announcement about "improved taxation" in Canada.

Re:I call BS

[hondo77]

We are already buying Japanese cars and Chinese TVs with your "pay enough" attitude.

Say what you want about Chinese TVs but we buy Japanese cars because American cars, for the most part, bite and American car companies are too clueless to do anything about it.

Re:Mod parent up Plz

[dami99]

Out of curiosity, where is "up here"?

It certainly isn't Calgary or Vancouver, because 50-60k will not cut it in either city.

I live in Calgary and make over that amount. (I also regularily spend time in Vancouver, and know for a fact its pretty comparable to Calgary as far as cost of living these days.)

I wouldn't consider anything 70-80k enough to afford a house, let alone "all the latest tech toys".

1/2 of a corporations duties

[Anonymous Coward]

You blood profits/greed is great types always seem to conveniently forget about the other half of the people granting an incorporation charter to a company (BTW, you have no "right" to incorporate). Your company must also be of the public good. You may think it is a non story, but that shows where your sympathies lie, with the greed is great crowd.

Not hiring the people from within the nation you are incorporated in does not increase the general public good. It may temporarily increase the profits of your limited sub section of the population shareholders, but that's it. It's a short term get rich quick scam, and the main reason we now have a nation so burdened in debt that it amounts in the aggregate of half a million dollars per person, and it has all happened within the last 20 years of globalization, offshoring and moves like MS is now doing.

So keep it up, eventually you'll get what's coming to you, the US as some big fat mexico-like two class nation, and the destruction of the productive middle class so we can have a handful more billionaires and multimillionaires, while they bribe off you suckers with their worthless credit ponzi schemes that they *know* will never be any good long term, but keep you sucked into believing their globalist drivel.

I hope we start yanking the corporate charters of asshole companies like microsoft and other treasonous piratical companies. Haliburton should be near the top of that list as well. Freaking parasites at best.

  At least ticks don't lie about where their loyalties are.

Re:1/2 of a corporations duties

[crucini]

And if they are selling them for a profit at 10 cents then 5.25 is obscene here.

1. The cost of marketing a product is different in different countries. Factors such as regulations, lawsuits, expensive advertising and high wages can increase the cost.
   
2. Drugs are like software, in that most of the cost goes into R and D. The marginal cost of producing one more unit is very low. Therefore, you might think it's profitable to sell the product for 1 cent. But if the company sold all units at 1 cent, it would lose money. That's because there's a large fixed cost which must be amortized over the full-price sales.
   

Re:I call BS on the BS call

[JimDaGeek]

No, MS wants to find lower priced immigrants. There are only so many visa apps and companies fight for them. What is really sick, is that companies like MS hire outside legal counsel to find ways to disqualify American workers. I just recently read this in the news. Basically for a company to get H1-b applicants, they have to interview American workers and give the American workers an equal shot at the position. However, by using outside counsel that specializes in working around the system, many large companies can get away with not hiring American workers and then they turn around and say "there is a shortage of qualified American workers". Which is total BS.

There are many loop-holes companies like MS use. For example, say a position starts at $60,000. The American worker says they are looking for $65,000 (he/she is never told what the starting salary is). Instantly disqualified! Even if the American worker would have accepted the $60,000, it doesn't matter because the law doesn't say that companies need to at least try one round of negotiations.

bullshit

[nanosquid]

Basically for a company to get H1-b applicants, they have to interview American workers and give the American workers an equal shot at the position.

That's a nice fairy tale, but you're confusing H1B visas and green cards. There is no requirement to interview American workers for H1B visas; for H1B visas, a company can simply write a letter saying that they couldn't fill the position with an American worker.

The requirement to interview American workers exists only for green card applications. Green cards remove any hold the company may have over their workers, so they are the exact opposite of what a company would apply for if it wants to keep salaries low by hiring cheap immigrants. Companies are indeed trying to skirt that requirement, but that's not to keep salaries low, it's to avoid losing an employee that has likely been with the company for many years and is very valuable to them.

I just recently read this in the news.

Perhaps your inability to read and understand written materials has something to do with your inability to command a higher salary.

But this is in Vancouver

[freeweed]

Correction: Canada has a more stable cost of living. You don't need to earn 150k/year to live well up here, and nationwide health-care is an oft-quoted perk of being Canadian.

A developer earning 50-60k up here is considered middle-upper class. He can afford a house on his own, along with all the latest tech toys. Try that in Redmond... yeah right!

Except Microsoft is opening this up in Vancouver, the most expensive city in Canada to live in. Average house price: $750,000.

50-60k is most certainly not middle-upper class in the bigger cities in Canada. Not Vancouver, not Calgary, not Edmonton, not Toronto. Maybe Regina or Winnipeg.

Actual MS Salaries

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know why everyone needs to comment without looking at the leaked MS Salary documents:

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/libra ry/MSCompGu.jpg
(from http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2006/03/internal-micr osoft-compensation.html)

Fulltime out of university is level 59.

Re:Could also be

[Anonymous Coward]

I know it's incomprehensible to you, but there are quite a lot of us who don't want to live in your country.