Senate Committee Passes FCC Indecency Bill

An anonymous reader writes "US Senate Commerce Committee today passed a bill that would allow the FCC to fine broadcasters for slip of the tongue expletives, negating a ruling by federal appeals court in New York that commission's policy on 'fleeting expletives' is arbitrary and capricious. 'A mandate by Congress that a "fleeting expletive" can now be found indecent will create a vast chilling effect on broadcast speech, the advocacy group Center for Democracy and Technology claims. CDT points out that prior to this bill and the FCC's policy change, the FCC exercised discretion in determining which utterances were indecent, and consistently found that one-time uses of curse words were not indecent.'"

Comments

Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit.

Re:Obligatory

[Dachannien]

BEEEEP You are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.

Re:Obligatory

[fyngyrz]

The first amendment, emphasis mine:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

There are no amendments to the constitution that allow the federal government (congress) to rework the meaning and intent of the first amendment. Therefore, this law is illegitimate. Because it is illegitimate, it is also without authority — no authority is provided by the constitution, therefore no authority transfers to the law. Consequently it is a law of coercion, using only force and the threat of force as the means to accomplish its goal, which is specifically abridging freedom of speech.

The 14th amendment extends the bill of rights (amendments one through ten) to the states; that is, the states must make law according to the dictates of the bill of rights, just as the federal government must. So laws abridging freedom of speech cannot be legitimately created at the state level, either.

Note that there is a path that could make this kind of action legitimate; that would require amendment of the constitution. Without such amendment, the federal government is not legally authorized to make a law of this type. Amendment is a procedure that is defined in Article Five of the constitution.

One more ironclad example of our federal government wildly out of control.

Re:Obligatory

[lgw]

In other words, the Constitution doesn mean what it clearly and obviously says, because some of the smartest people in America have been finding clever excuses to insert their personal politics for centuries. Sad, really, but what the Constitution clearly says isn't really important these days.

Re:Obligatory

[fyngyrz]

And yet there are plenty of restrictions on "free" speech.

Yes, there are. And every one of them is illegitimate. There is nothing to "interpret" about Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech. anyone who thinks there is has simply demonstrated they are unqualified to read, much less "interpret" basic English. And that includes partisan, special-interest sycophants who we have had the misfortune of having appointed to the supreme court.

You seem to be of the persuasion that if it is law, it is OK. The fact is, if the constitution forbids it, and it is done anyway, it is wrong and illegitimate and coercive, and no amount of "interpretation" can make it any better. There is no authority given to abridge the freedom of speech; congress is not allowed to make any such law. End of story as far as legitimacy goes, barring constitutional amendment.

The evil CDT

[morgan_greywolf]

Will someone please think about the children!! It would be just horrible, evil and wrong for children to naughty words! Why, it might psychologically damage them for life! The horror!

Re:The evil CDT

[fishthegeek]

You think that is funny until it's your own seven year old that tells a teacher to fuck off, or starts cursing in a WalMart.

Re:The evil CDT

[brunascle]

but why do people have so much more of a problem with words like "fuck"? why should that be considered any different than "go to hell"?

perhaps it's because we dont use these words casually that they have so much more of an effect, and if we stopped giving them special emotional status the problem would resolve itself.

Re:The evil CDT

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

And that's where the parental duty of discipline comes in. Never underestimate the corrective powers of a sock full of quarters.

Re:The evil CDT

[wbattestilli]

Thank god that my seven year old will only hear cursing from N sources rather than N+1. Once we get people to behave and clean up the internet everything should be ok.

Re:The evil CDT

[morgan_greywolf]

You think that is funny until it's your own seven year old that tells a teacher to fuck off, or starts cursing in a WalMart.

See, it's not the inappropriate words that are the problem, it's the inappropriate behaviour. There's no difference between your seven year old telling to the teacher to 'fuck off' and the seven year old telling the teacher rudely to 'go away'. Until people see that it's rude and inappropriate behaviour that is the problem, not words, we'll always be stuck in the 1950s.

Re:The evil CDT

[drinkypoo]

You think that is funny until it's your own seven year old that tells a teacher to fuck off, or starts cursing in a WalMart.

I know a kid who has been allowed to cuss at home since he was like six. He's never had a public cussing problem because he was explicitly taught by his mother when it is and is not appropriate, and the instruction was approached from a position of respect and reason, and above all responsibility, rather than by treating the child like a slave and instructing them as to what they will do (from my own experience I can tell you that the "orders" approach is very hit and miss. certainly it did not work at all on me.)

This is entirely a matter of parenting. Period, the end, thank you! Most parents swear inappropriately and so their children learn to do so as well. And most parents use fear, not respect, to keep children in line. They use an appeal to authority, not one to respect, to guide their behavior.

Lots of people have told me "you'd feel differently if you had children". Yet I seem to have better results dealing with children than most people do. I talk to them like humans, not like we talk to animals (actually, in most cases that's a disservice to the animal, let alone what it's like when we do it to a child) and the results are typically positive. Children are more willing to listen to you when you're not treating them like a monkey. (Even if they're acting like one.)

I never really had the issue addressed for me at all, except having my mouth washed out with soap at a day care once because before I even understood it I used the word "hump", no joke. This mountain of a woman named Jennifer ran (or runs) a day care across the street from Mar Vista elementary school. She had two or three spoiled kids and decided to add a bunch of others to the mix. One kid accused me of humping one of the others, so I told him he did it, and I got a mouthful of palmolive as a reward. Guess how I reacted to her henceforth? Dumb bitch. (They did instruct me to swallow the soap, but I spit it out. Even as a kid I wasn't an idiot. It says right on the bottle not to drink it.) This event taught me that stupid people are offended by certain words, but I cuss up a storm today. And I enjoy it.

Bottom line: Parenting from a position of respect and responsibility makes more sense than parenting from fear.

Postscript: Most parents seem to treat Walmart as a children's play area anyway. I don't think most of them give a shit if they start cussing. Walmart is the least classy place on earth.

Re:The evil CDT

['nother poster]

Hearing them and using them are two different things. They need to be taught what is and is not acceptable.

p.s. My youngest son used the word "fucking" correctly and in context at the age of 5. I was proud, not horrified. At 12 he still asks sometimes if the word he wishes to use is appropriate for the situation and context before saying something.

Re:The evil CDT

[Lumpy]

and everyone forgets that children, specifically young children mimic tv far less than they mimic parents.

Hating blacks and minorities? that comes from daddy and mommy.

a 7 year old that says "fuck off" I'll bet you $80.00 that daddy says it on a regular basis.

The faults lie directly in the hands of the parents.

Yes you parents, your kids behavior is YOUR FAULT. you TEACH THEM TO ACT THAT WAY. Dont act suprised when little stevie says "fuck you" to someone when you say it daily. The guy that wears the "let's go fuck some whores" T shirt out with his kids and scolds them for swearing blows my mind.

now teenagers, all bets are off, children become mentally insane from age 13 to age 25 and should be treated as special needs, specifically girls. good god the drama..... save me from the drama.

Re:The evil CDT

[xappax]

That's a good point. In terms of indecency laws, there is no difference between those phrases. Just goes to show that you can be quite vulgar and disrespectful without using any profanity. It's the meaning and sentiment behind the words that matters, not the vocabulary employed to express it.

Re:The evil CDT

[mrchaotica]

What, you're saying you're incapable of properly raising your kids (e.g. by turning off the TV when it's playing something you don't want them to see)? Fine, then you're an incompetant, bad parent and we should have DFACS take them away from you! How's that sound?

Re:The evil CDT

[rbochan]

When I was 7, one of my teachers was being a complete bitch and I _did_ tell him to fuck off.
My grandmother, another (English) teacher in the building, got to meet me at the principal's office with my teacher. She asked about the situation, and stated, in no uncertain terms, that I'd used the (sic) appropriate language for the situation and she'd have told my teacher the same thing. Though she said that she'd prefer that language wasn't used in school, it at least had not been for pure folly. The principal agreed.
Gotta love us some English teachers :o)

Re:The evil CDT

[brunascle]

It's not at all appropriate to just throw around genitals

i agree 100%

oh cmon, you couldve have typed that without knowing it would be taken out of context.

Re:The evil CDT

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

Good theory, but I'm afraid it'll never work. Because one of the functions of language is to express a range of distaste, there will always have to be a top end to the level of offense meant to the listener. This, in my completely unresearched opinion, necessitates words that are reserved for the absolute maximum impact. If "fuck" were to be removed from speech due to casual use there would inevitably be something new invented to take its place. Look no further than the recent symbolic "burial" of the dreaded "n-word" by (IIRC) the NAACP. There's a perfect example of a community where, to one side, a word is so vile that it needs to be stricken from any and all use, and to the other side, it's so inoffensive that it's used as a term of endearment. I'm not exactly sure what rap fans use in place of it when they're shouting at each other, but you know there has to be something.

As long as there are people cutting other people off in traffic, there'll be a search for something to yell at them. Language is funny like that.

Re:The evil CDT

[db32]

And here is the magic of why that is such nonsense.

1. "Bad" words are only bad becaus they are bad. The idea that there are "bad" words follows the most innane circular logic since "The Bible is true because it was inspired by God and I know that because the Bible says so". The moral police use the most bizaar circular logic and this is it again. If noone cared and noone was offended then noone would use the word to be offensive eh?

2. The more you censor "Bad" words, the more "Bad" they become. The more "Bad" they become the more likely someone is going to use the "Bad" word to attempt to be offensive. Their level of offensiveness was amplified by the stupid attempt to censor said "Bad" word.

3. Any of these fools that support this crap obviously have spent very little time around children (not to say they don't have them, but I imagine most career politicians are probably too busy getting handjobs from hookers on business trips paid for by lobbyists to spend much time bothering to raise their kids). You tell a kid "You can't do X" and the first thing they do when you aren't looking is what exactly? Same goes for "You can't say Y". Good job, you just made it more attractive for them to say "bad" words.

4. An earlier poster had it exactly right, while the verbage may be less offensive (again only made offensive by silly attempts to declare it offensive and taboo), the real problem is rudeness. I don't care what my children say to me, if its a real "bad" word, if its a made up word, or if its normal language, if they are being rude about it they are going to be dealt with swiftly and severely (no not beating, but a good quick barked command will make any kid jump out of his skin). The words used themselves are irrelevant it is about what the intent was when they said them.
 
"Go hork yourself you sheeprag" and "Go fuck yourself you whore" are going to get equally punished in my book, and only one of them used "bad" words.

Re:The evil CDT

[fohat]

I would like to see a fine applied to your post. I have a big problem with your use of the integer "N" because it's the first letter of one of the forbidden words. Please use a more neutral integer in the future; say, "X".

Oh wait you can't use X either...

Re:The evil CDT

[jcgf]

There is quite a large difference between allowing a little girl to hear the words "fuck off" and allowing people to have sex with her. You know you've lost the argument and now you're desperately trying to associate the other side with something as horrible as child sexual abuse in order to get the last word. It's lame and you know it.

Re:The evil CDT

[CaptJay]

In a funny twist of english influence over french-speakers in Quebec, we imported 'fuck' into our day-to-day speech.

We use 'fuck' extremely casually: 'ah fuck!' is often used when a native english speaker would say "Ah, geez!", and 'fuck it!' is used just as casually...

Just wanted to add another example to your argument that the actual word has nothing to do with it, rather it's the way people are used to hearing/saying it in their culture.

Re:The evil CDT

[Taevin]

So, the swear words refer to stuff you would never deal with in everyday life.

I don't know about you, but I think a lot of people do deal with these things everyday. I may not deal a whole lot with deities, but I sure do with sex/genitals and bodily functions. Of course, I also find it hard to find anything offensive in these tasks anyway, including those 'dirty' bodily functions, but I realize I may be fairly unique in that regard. I've never understood why in our culture basic bodily functions and desires are so taboo. We speak in circuitous ways about these things like "I payed a visit to the bathroom" or "I spent some time with my girlfriend last night." We can be fairly sure you weren't just admiring the decorations in the restroom and weren't with your girlfriend for the conversation (I kid, I kid!).

I'd definitely agree with other posters with the sentiment being more important than the actual words used. I don't know why we're stuck on the student-teacher dynamic, but it works there too. I can definitely say that I've never used a 'vulgar' word as an insult to a teacher (or any elder), but I'd be lying if I said I've never had my mouth washed out with soup for mouthing off to one. Just take sarcasm for instance: if someone does something stupid and you call him a genius for it, the insult is clear and yet no foul words were used--quite the opposite in fact.

Behavior really is the most important thing to correct. If you have a respectful child, he's going to know when it is not appropriate to use certain words, even if he has no objection to any of them. I have no studies or evidence to back it up, but I'd definitely put money on the argument that the children you see crying, carrying on, and generally just being disrespectful to their parents and elders are also the ones that are going to use vulgar language. Even more so if they know that it will get them more attention because it is offensive.

Re:The evil CDT

[orclevegam]

After reading several of your posts I've determined that I'm morally opposed to most of your opinions, however, I'm going to try to provide what advice I can in a reasonable and logical fashion.

It sure makes life easier if I know that the TV in her room with an antennae or basic cable won't be showing uncut Soprano or Sex in the City reruns.

If you're concerned that your child will have access to TV content you don't approve of, then the TV probably shouldn't be in the childes bedroom, and if it is, you may want to invest in one of those timer power switches that shuts an appliance off between certain hours (although the child could probably bypass this easily, but then again, they will gain access to virtually anything they want to anyway, not much point censoring really). Most current appliances also have parental lock codes (that can't be disabled in some cases much to my annoyance) that will restrict certain content. Finally, maybe you should look into some sort of media PC, or maybe put together a MythBox. Doing that you could load up all the movies you approve of, and maybe schedule certain approved television shows to be recorded regularly, allowing the child to view approved content whenever he or she wishes.

As someone else pointed out, it's not societies job to approve what your child can see, but there are resources out there to help you perform that task yourself. It's up to you to use them.

Re:The evil CDT

[Reziac]

Another point: how long before cursing in public forums is also censored? After all, it's reaching a wide audience, just like radio and TV; in fact one might say sites like slashdot are the talk-radio of our era.

There are local laws against cursing in public, here and there, often dating back to the 1800s. Enforced? Rarely, if ever. You'd have to arrest everyone, sooner or later.

As you note, these words exist for a reason, and if banned or deprecated, something else takes their place.

And for those who say "I don't NEED to curse", they apparently don't understand nuances ... such as how "screwed up" doesn't carry the implication of maliciousness conveyed by "fucked up".

Re:The evil CDT

[hrvatska]

a 7 year old that says "fuck off" I'll bet you $80.00 that daddy says it on a regular basis.

You're neglecting to consider the power of peer influence. None of my adult relatives swore in my presence, but I sure knew how to cuss by the time I was in 5th grade. This was solely because a lot of my friends did. I never swore in front of my adult relatives, but I'd cuss outside of their ear shot.

One time, when my son was in kindergarten, he was sitting at home with me, my wife and my parents. A series of jokes were told, and everyone was laughing. All of a sudden my son blurts out 'you can kiss my fuckin' pussy!' Everyone gets quiet and looks over at my son. He knew at that point that perhaps he had said something inappropriate. I calmly asked my son why he had just said what had said. He said that all the older girls on the school bus shouted that at each other and then laughed, and he thought as long as we were all being so jovial he'd contribute. I had made it a point of never swearing in my son's presence, and I know none of his other adult relatives did. He was evidently picking up quite the vocabulary outside of the house, though.

Re:The evil CDT

[oyenstikker]

To clarify, the problem isn't that the child is aware of the word, the problem is that the child hears it often enough that it becomes part of his functional vocabulary and is used without regard for the situation.

If my child hears me say "shit" about twice a year when I hit myself in the thumb with a hammer or zap myself with an ignition coil, he will possibly use the word when in a similar situation. Fine. But if he hears people throwing it around in casual conversation multiple times a day, there is going to be a problem.

That being said, I don't think broadcasters should have to worry about the occasional swear during live interviews and such. However, if they are doing an interview with somebody with a dirty mouth who has cursed 3 times in the last minute, they should stop the interview or warn the guy that they will stop the interview if he doesn't cut it out.

I don't think broadcasters should be allowed to show Pulp Fiction at 4 in the afternoon. I would also argue that they shouldn't be allowed to show content with bleeps every 15 seconds. Every 7 year old knows what they are bleeping out, and that they hear "bleep" instead of "shit" isn't going to have any less of a negative impact on their functional language.

BTW, has anybody seen the episode of Arthur with the bleeps? Hilarious.

Re:The evil CDT

[Floritard]

I really have to disagree here. My friends and I basically have no boundaries on word usage. Not the F-word, not the C-word, and that's across both genders. It doesn't offend me in the least to hear these words. The people around me, and to an extent I think most of the recent generation use profanity quite casually. Just look at the culture, the movies nowadays especially. You become desensitized to it, and it loses all superficial shock value. That doesn't mean you don't respond to indecency or insults. You just begin to look at the larger picture. The intonation of voice, the attitude of the speaker. It's no longer about the words but the intention behind them. This is the way it should be. Having so-called "naughty" words whose very presence offends regardless of context is really just a form of control. You're looked at as immature or lower class if you use profanity around certain people. If those people are in power, they have an easy way to control your behavior. You don't have to use profanity, but taking offense to certain words in themselves is childish. Fucking childish.

Re:The evil CDT

[Torvaun]

>Perhaps some people have uncontrolled mental imagery; I know I do. When someone says "fuck off" I >see a guy masturbating. When someone says "bullshit" I see a cowpie. I don't like those mental >images, but it's something you learn to deal with I guess.

Hmm. Goatse!

Yes, I am a jerk.

P.S. Almost said "Yes, I am an asshole." but I figured Goatse covered that. Or uncovered it, as the case may be.

Re:The evil CDT

[r_naked]

You realize you are raising your kid to be a pussy? Your child is the type of kid that *my* kid would beat up, if I didn't teach him _that_ was wrong.

Grow a set a fucking balls and get the fuck over the fucking F word. While your at it, stop shitting yourself about the S world also.

*YOU* have control of your TV / radio / . You don't need the FCC to babysit your kid for you. *I* certainly do not want the FCC baby sitting mine. I am quite capable of telling my son that when (not if) he should use the FUCK word.

Example:

We are driving down the road and some dick head is protesting that the FCC isn't tight enough on foul language: "FUCK you dick head!" would be perfectly acceptable.

Oh, in case I didn't get my point across -- FUCK YOU!

It's necessary

[Bullfish]

Otherwise, kids might think it is okay to swear, and think of the chaos if the curse word is accompanied by a nipple. Surely we can't have this as it will lead to all kinds of promiscuity etc. Catastrophe! Better the kids see people getting their legs etc blown off. It's good clean wholesome fun that will prepare them for living in the modern world.

Re:Need we say more?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately, due to my 15 second delay, I was able to self-censor. I don't have a fucking delay you insensitive clod!

Liability and A/V issues?

[vigmeister]

Who is responsible for accidental broadcasting of expletives. the example that comes immediately to mind is the stump microphone used in cricket that picks up on field chatter and sounds that add to viewer experience (would be like a mic placed on the bases in baseball). If a player accidentally curses, it is heard world over and in most instances, the commentators entirely ignore it or express that a certain player is extremely angry. Would the player be fined?(fair IMHO) or would the network be punished?(unfair IMHO). Here's an example of it in cricket:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36SLpqAymTE

Who would be liable for this? Who SHOULD be liable?

Another issue is that even if it is bleeped out through human monitoring (with a 10 second delay or something), can mouthing of the word be considered as 'broadcasting' it? Communication is not only about sound, but given the weird laws regarding recording cops' audio/video output, it might be a similarly absurd law.

Or maybe I just don't understand TFA.

Cheers!

Re:Fucking Republicans...

[ArcherB]

Don't blame just the Republicans. As I recall, it was Al Gore and his wife who were leading the charge against Dee Snider and WASP not too long ago. I'm afraid this crosses party lines.

Besides, if you want to hear "fuck" on TV, get cable.

Re:Fucking pricks

[antv]

there's no way to adquately describe the shit-for-brains Bush administration

You're joking, but because of this law there's literally no way for radio news station to report what Dick Cheney said to Sen. Patrick Leathy on a Senate Floor.

Re:Fucking pricks

[Goobermunch]

Actually, broadcasters have significantly reduced First Amendment rights, and have for decades. In fact, the recent trend has been for them to enjoy more First Amendment protection.

Here's the scoop: Broadcasters get a license from the Government to use an extremely scarce public resource--a chunk of the EM spectrum. In exchange for that license they agree to be regulated by the FCC, which includes an agreement not to broadcast indecent speech.

Moreover, the Supreme Court has held that indecent broadcast speech can be restricted. Unlike ordinary public speech, which one can ignore simply by going home and closing the door, indecent speech (and images) can be broadcast through the walls of your home at any time of the day or night. It can even be inserted into an otherwise innocuous broadcast.

And while it's true that a motivated speaker with a bullhorn can make himself (or herself) heard inside your home, that speech is subject to normal content-neutral time, place and manner restrictions. Most municipalities have noise ordinances prohibiting that kind of amplified speech.

--AC

FCC

[Ender77]

FCC = FEDERAL CENSORSHIP COMMITTEE The are like the RIAA of television. Turning everything they touch to *Bleep*

This is so stupid.

[ErichTheRed]

In this day and age, who actually goes out of their way to not let their children hear curse words? I'll bet these are the same kind of parents who wonder why their perfect little angels are doing drugs and drinking behind their back at age 13. Wake up guys, the social scene has changed in the last 30 years. Kids are exposed to everything from a very early age.

The tighter you control, the more your kids will try to get away with. Everyone knows that from their own childhood, but forgets that when they become parents themselves!

My personal philosophy: Assume kids have access to every bad thing out there. Give them the tools to deal with it so they don't wind up killing themselves or doing something stupid. At the same time, tolerate a little bit of abnormal behavior. Any other control you try to impose is just going to turn them into a social retard or push them away from you.

Many assaults on free speech

[Kohath]

Add this to:

- McCain-Feingold censoring of political speech that criticizes incumbent politicians before elections.
- Reinstitution of the fairness doctrine to censor all "controversial" broadcasts
- Opening the door for terrorists to sue ordinary citizens who say "I saw something suspicious" to security personnel
- PBS censors film for not being sensitive to radical "insurgents" who threaten folks who argue for moderation
- Don Imus shut up by Al Sharpton's forces
- Numerous incidents on college campuses

Free speech is too important. It needs to be protected and the Supreme Court isn't doing an adequate job (see the McCain-Feingold decision).

Re:Many assaults on free speech

[Dausha]

"Free speech is too important. It needs to be protected and the Supreme Court isn't doing an adequate job (see the McCain-Feingold decision)."

You are wrong, Sir. The Constitution should not be defended by only one branch of government, but by all *four*. There are three active branches: Executive, Legislative and Judicial. The inactive branch is the People. We are the authority by which Congress enacts laws, the authority by which the President enforces those laws, and the authority by which SCOTUS interprets the laws.

Running to SCOTUS every time something unconstitutional happens is a hack. It has allowed the American People to become complacent with their obligation to ensure effective government. It has allowed Congress to enact laws that are sloppy and lets the judicial branch take the heat when something unpopular happens (SCOTUS said it, so it must be Constitutional). I hate to tell you this, but just because SCOTUS said it, does not make it Constitutional---look at the "Life of Mickey Mouse+90year" rule for copyright. SCOTUS is the non-political branch, so resorting to them is resorting to an anti-democratic solution.

What is required is for the American people to focus on the real issue in this country: of rampant bad governance. We're split into left-and-right factions and so don't notice how we're getting screwed. We need to supplant all the bozos---establish term limits with a requirement that a Congressman cannot serve as a lobbyist for as many years as he served in Congress. Maximum time served is 12 years.

The seven words you cannot say on televsion...

[thebdj]

Shit
Piss
Fuck
Cunt
Cocksucker
Motherfucker
Tits

These marvelous words brought to you by George Carlin.

Re:Speaking of BEEP

[Admiral Justin]

And some of us adults would like to live in a society where our allowed language range on TV isn't only slightly beyond that of teletubbies.

Time for carlin's list to make a comeback :)