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Slot Machine with Bad Software Sends Players To Jail
dcollins writes "Previous discussions here have turned into debates over who is liable for faulty software: the programmers, the publisher, etc. Yahoo has a new option: perhaps the users are criminally liable for using the software. From the AP: 'Prosecutors are considering criminal charges against casino gamblers who won big on a slot machine that had been installed with faulty software ... A decision on whether to bring criminal charges could come in a couple of weeks, said John Colin, chief deputy prosecutor for Harrison County. He said 'criminal intent' may be involved when people play a machine they know is faulty.' Would your average user be able to distinguish 'faulty software' from 'lucky'?"
If you put $1 in the machine and got a $10 credit, I should think that the user would figure out that there's more going on than them just being "lucky".
As TFA says, the Casino contacted the winners about the fault, and several of them agreed to give back their winnings. (Total losses for the casino were nearly $500,000.) Criminal charges are being considered for the remainder of the two dozen people who exploited the machine. Those charges would result in the gambler getting hauled before a judge and made to prove that he thought that he was just "lucky" when the machine gave him a $10 credit for every $1 he put in.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Well that's bullshit.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
I would say that sliding in a dollar, realizing wow I can cash out for $10, and then repeating that same action umpteen times without actually using the slot machine would also qualify as intent.
Any average joe could do that.
FTFA: The machine at Caesars Indiana credited gamblers $10 for each dollar they inserted because the software wasn't designed for U.S. currency, state police said. More than two dozen people played the machine before one gambler alerted Caesars employees.
If Caesars was so negligent that they put out machines not designed for US currency without testing them or having their vendor test them, then they deserve to lose the money.
I find it hard to fathom that a casino would install a slot machine without even testing it. You would think the first thing they would do is verify that the machine accepts money and giving it a whirl. I'm sure they have some way of doing this in a test mode to verify it's functioning. I'm not condoning the people who took advantage of the situation, they should return the money. But sheesh, who does the casino have to blame but for themselves?
That means use cash instead of credit so you don't have to find out the answer
So, you make a defective product and then put it out for public use without telling anyone it's defective, and probably even deny it for quite a while, and then sue everyone who uses this publically accessible product thing? Sounds like the operator is guilty of entrapment.
Prosecutors are considering criminal charges agains casino houses who won big on games involving people who have faulty perceptions of their chances of winning ...
It's the responsibilty of the vendor to verify the systems are in compliance. If the error is in favor of the consumer, then there should be no recourse; if the error is in favor of the house then it's false advertising and the consumer is entitled to compensation. The house has control over all aspects of the game; the player has none. Imho, its similar to a contract: if one party writes the contract, then any errors therein are generally adjudicated in favor of the non-writing party.
Casinos are the rare exception to simple rules like this: anyone caught playing by the rules and winning too much is prosecuted, hence the prohibition against car counting in blackjack, which is simply smart play. They give you sheets to keep track of roulette spins, and will let you make notes on dice throws all day long.
To put it in simpler terms: You cut the cake, your brother chooses which piece. If you're the one cutting the cake, don't get pissed if your brother chooses the bigger half.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Harrison County, Indiana is the legal entity considering criminal charges against players, probably at the behest of Caesar's.
I find the summary wording to be at least misleading, if not defamatory.
Beyond that, from TFA, the machine was crediting ten dollars for every dollar inserted, not paying out with more wins. It was clearly, demonstrably, and obviously faulty. So the answer to the question "Would your average user be able to distinguish 'faulty software' from 'lucky'?" is yes. They knew damned well they were getting $10 worth of chances for every $1. It was as obvious as finding that someone had left their wallet at the machine and pocketing it.
What the heck is going on here editors? This summary is beyond shoddy.
--
Toro
What makes it so reasonable to believe that the 'error' was really by design is the level of micromanagement that goes on at a typical casino. First the state is involved with highly stringent verification and validation of all electronic games of chance. Then there is the level of observation that goes on - cameras all over the place watching everybody. Then there the actual people on the floor watching everything - keeping track of who wins and who loses, deciding who to comp with free drinks, free rooms, etc.
Given all that, the chance of a broken machine lasting very long on the floor is so small that it is entirely reasonable to expect that it would be the last thing someone might expect when faced with the described behaviour. This is certainly the first time I've ever heard of such an event, despite there being hundreds of thousands of such machines in use for decades now.
Go back and RTFA a little closer.
Step 1: Player inserts $1
Step 2: Machine indicates the player has ten bets (i.e. $10)
Step 3: Player cashes out and recieves $10
Step 4: Go to step 1 and repeat until the player gets paranoid about being caught.
You see, the process really didn't involve any gambling at all, except being caught.
First Time Deposit Bonus.
Frequent Player Points.
Real Dollars vs Play Dollars.
Casino's 10th Aniversary Celebration.
"This week only, there is a chance that you could win additional play credits when you use our new electronic play system."
Whatever other harebrained promo they may have thought up.
From the article, it appears that the casinos have a way of tracking down every user from the casino card, and asking them to return their ill-gotten gains.
So my question is this: Imagine that the machine was faulty in the other direction, that it was rigged to never come up with a win, no matter how long you played. Would the casinos go to similar lengths to contact their patrons after the fact and send them reimbursement checks? If not, then I say, screw 'em.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
The question for me is... how can you live with what you are doing? You are doing something that is obviously (at least obvious to me) immoral, whether it is legal or not is (again, to me) totally irrelevant. For the most part I live my life attempting to do what's right according to my moral values, I might be a bit discouraged to do things that are merely illegal but not immoral, but I strive to not do things that are immoral even if perfectly legal.
Heck, I DON'T keep the wrong change if I catch the mistake, and if I catch it past the point when I can do something about it (or the quantity is minimal) I feel shitty for the rest of the day... I really don't see how you can do it again and again.
This is patently false.
And this is probably where the source of your confusion lies.
There is no difference. Each machine is designed to perform a certain function that involves money. In each case, one party is using the machine to conduct a transaction with another party. In each case, the machine is broken in such a way that heavily favors one party over the other, a way that is readily obvious to a reasonable person, and a way that the other party does not agree to. In each case, the first party (the one that is being favored) exploits the fact that the other party (the one that is being screwed) doesn't know that the machine is broken in order to continue their financial gain at the expense of the other party even though it is obvious that the other party wouldn't consent.
The exact nature of what the machines do is irrelevant. Whether it's an ATM, a slot machine, an arcade money changer, an automated car wash money collector, a pay phone... whatever. All that really matters legally, both civilly and criminally, is whether the machine was screwed up in such a way that a reasonable person would know it. I'm guessing that the answer to that is yes. I can't imagine getting $10 credit for $1 inserted and thinking, "Gee, that was unexpected, but it must be what they meant." In the end, it will probably be something a judge or jury decides.
If you walk up to an ATM and withdraw $100, and it says on your receipt that your account has been reduced by $100, but the machine actually spit out $1,000, what do you do?
And if you walk up to a slot machine, put in $100, pulled the arm and the machine spit out $1000, what do you do?
There are probably two kinds of players involved. Ones that were playing the slots and had no idea they were winning free money, and ones that were playing the software error for everything they could get. If you're going to accept the argument that it's a matter of "criminal intent" then you're going to have to prove that the people were the second kind, once you have proven that a crime was committed in the first place.
Just to post another analogy into the mix: If a store post an incorrect price, and it can be reasonably assumed that its a valid price (ie -- an incorrect decimal place usually doesn't cut it), they have to honor it until a public correction is posted. Usually they'll post the correction near the entrance, the sales bulletin board, and near the item itself. At least that's the way it was were I grew up.
The bottom line is that if a business entity makes a mistake, they have to eat it. If there's culpability on the part of the slot manufacturer for their faulty software, then its up to the casino to go after them to re-coup their loss.
Was it dishonest to exploit the machine knowingly? Absolutely. Did everyone know? probably not. How can you separate those who did from those who didn't? You can't. You cannot prove to a reasonable degree of certainty that any of these people *knew* they were exploiting the machine. No proof? No Criminal.
Any judgment you can make will be solely on the perception of someone as honest or dishonest -- that infamous and often untrustworthy "gut instinct", and even at that I would still maintain that there's no criminal act to be guilty of in the first place.
The casino always wins in the end; It is THEIR responsibility to make sure GAMES OF CHANCE are working properly.
This happened because either somebody didn't do their job, or there was inadequate quality control.
Personally, I think the casino should eat it, I don't think this is, or should be considered a criminal act - If charges end up being filed and this goes in front of a judge I don't think it's on the players to prove they just thought they were lucky, I think the casino would have to prove they they KNEW they were taking advantage, (and even if they did, I still think it's on the casino).
AFAIAC the furthest something like this should be able to go is civil court and ONLY if they can prove a player who made money off this didn't return it when asked.
It's the casino's own fucking problem if their software isn't working.
Exactly. Casinos run all sorts of "money for nothing" promotions all the time - free bets, sweepstakes, double payouts, etc. Many of which come and go based on seemingly random days of the week or times of day. In this context, it is perfectly reasonable for gamblers to assume it was some sort of promotion or something.
This is just passing the buck. Clearly someone at the casino was negligent in not fully testing the machines (not even basically testing them, if my understanding of the defect is correct) before placing them on the floor. That is were the fault lies, not with the users.
An ATM is NOT A GAME!!
ATMs are meant to be easy to use. Clear. Straight forward. Also, you know that when you ask for $40, you get $40 or an error (such as insufficient funds or the machine can't dispense money right now, etc.)
Slot machines look nothing like ATMs. They have flashing lights. They are intentionally confusing. It is unlikely that the user would even detect the kind of error described in the article in a slot machine. You are using the machine in the hope that you get more out of it than you put in.
When I refill my Metro card (NYC subway) I have the option to get more credit than I am actually paying for. For example, if you put in $20, it will give you $24 worth of credit. This is a bonus for spending more at once. I would have a hard time not thinking that the casino was doing something analogous.
I have a hard time having any sympathy for the casino in this situation. The amount of their loss was tiny. People play games at a casino to win money. With this case, if you do somehow, against the odds, manage to win money, the casino can just ask for it back claiming there was an error.
So, it takes away any incentive to gamble. Which is OK with me, because I don't gamble and I think gambling ought to be illegal, period.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
The security around voting machines are laughable compared to that of the slot machines. Also, states not only have access to the source code of slot machines, they actually inspect that source code.
It is far easier to cheat a voting machine than a slot machine, which demonstrates the sorry priorities of our current society.