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EU Google Competitor Project Gets Aid Worth $166 Million

mernil wrote with the news that the EU Commission has given the go-ahead to provide funding for Germany's search engine project, called Theseus. Early this year we discussed Germany's withdrawal from the French project Quaero. From the outside, it looks like the EU Commission is unwilling to put all its eggs in one basket, funding the German project to the tune of 120 million euro, or $US 166 million. Dow Jones reports: "The aim is to develop new search technologies for the next generation Internet, including 'semantic technologies which try to recognize the meaning of content and place it in its proper context.' The semantic Web has been considered the next evolution of the Internet at least since Tim Berners-Lee, widely considered a creator of the current version of the Internet, published an article describing it in 2001. In theory, a semantic Web could receive a user request for information about fishing, for example, and automatically narrow the results according to the user's individual needs rather than blanket the user with pages related to numerous aspects of fishing. The Commission's funding approval Thursday immediately sparked talk of building a potential European challenger to Web search leader Google Inc."

22 of 111 comments (clear)

  1. uh... by rs79 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "since Tim Berners-Lee, widely considered a creator of the current version of the Internet"

    Yeah, right.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
    1. Re:uh... by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, he is the inventor of the World Wide Web more or less, and the first http browser and server. I'm surprised you hadn't heard of him.

      The problem is he didn't come close to inventing the Internet, hence the GP to this post. The Internet is just a big honkin wide area network that uses IP as it's underlying protocol. The Web is an application.

    2. Re:uh... by rs79 · · Score: 4, Informative

      To put it in historical perspective, Tim took MIME that Einar Stefferud invented (Stef also invented and ran the first mailing list) and HTML (which came indirectly from Brian Reid's PhD thesis, brian also invented the firewall and alta vista) and glommed them all together and invented http. You can see Tim talking about this in comp.infosystems.www in the late 80s early 90s.

      Pity there was no internet to shuffle all those usenet articles and mail about. No doubt that would have helped.

      Gah.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    3. Re:uh... by Maxmin · · Score: 5, Funny

      There isn't much to the internet without http. The only other protocol that comes even close

      I know! Those other silly protocols, like SMTP, IMAP4, MIME, POP3, DNS, NTP, FTP, SIP, SNMP, SSH, telnet, RPC, RTSP, TLS/SSL, SOAP, ... nobody uses 'em much.

      --
      O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
  2. Have a VC / startup mentality by maelstrom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Instead of big government bureaucracy, trying to force a Google competitor from the top down, the EU should be seeding promising European startups. The next Google is probably not going to look anything like Google, and you aren't going to find it with this style of funding.

    See also:

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    The more you know, the less you understand.
    1. Re:Have a VC / startup mentality by jgc7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The VC / startup mentality is practically impossible in Germany or France because the labor markets are so rigid. The EU shouldn't be seeding promising startups, but rather loosing the labor markets so venture capital is promising to both investors and entrepreneurs. Giving millions to established corporations only makes the problem worse.

      What they need is an environment where to two Phd students can go to some rich dude's doorstep, pitch an idea, and walk away with a check for $100k without ever being invited inside.

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      70% of statistics are made up.
    2. Re:Have a VC / startup mentality by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Forget about seeding startups. Just make -lots- of grants to universities doing this type of research (160 million can sponsor thousands of projects!)---maybe some of them will be successful (big gov projects have a tendency of turning into money pits).

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    3. Re:Have a VC / startup mentality by malsdavis · · Score: 5, Informative

      That is pretty much what the THESEUS program is! Lots of academic and institutional research groups with centrally coordinated goals and objectives.

      From the about page of the THESEUS website http://theseus-programm.de/about_theseus:
      "At the current time, 31 research institutions, universities, and companies have joined the THESEUS program with planned projects. The industrial and public research partners are cooperating closely."

      It appears this project was mainly requested by German industry and from the website seems that it will closely involve industry. It's quite funny though how the story submitter and many commenters here have twisted the facts to make the project sound as socialist as possible!

      The story should really fit the facts though rather than the facts fitting the story!

    4. Re:Have a VC / startup mentality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why are people labelling this "big government bureaucracy"? Just because it's funded by the government, it doesn't have to be awful. PyPy, for example, was mostly funded by the EU, and that's very promising. KDE has been partially funded by governments as well.

    5. Re:Have a VC / startup mentality by ai3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It seems the situation is getting better in Germany in this regard, for example Hasso Plattner (one of SAP's founders) does exactly this.

    6. Re:Have a VC / startup mentality by pimpimpim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wrong, it is then a government-funded piece of work. In your definition all (US) military projects are socialist as well? Furthermore, I'd like to add that these kind of projects are set up in a pretty efficient business-like manner, even better. The researcher gets a clear set of goals to reach within a certain period of time, using a certain amount of money. Good thing is that during this few years of funding the scientist has hardly any administrative work to do to find funding (instead of begging for small funds continuously). This makes sure that the scientist has enough time to work on the project, and actually work on things of his/her own interest as well, and it are those side projects they encounter on the way that usually give the biggest innovations.

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      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
  3. Theseus, by name, is doomed to fail by erroneus · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's got to be a fun name. "Yahoo!" was a fun name. "Google" is a fun name. "Eureka" would be a fun and successful name... unfortunately, the company's products suck... (but they are supposed to... it's a vacuum cleaner company.) They should pick a name like that. Theseus makes people think of "Thesaurus" and c'mon! Who wants to use that?

  4. They rejected my name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I suggested "communism." You know, the web, people working together, global village, all that loveliness. But apparently it has some negative conitations from before my time. Oh well.

  5. Re:Are they THAT insecure by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 2, Informative

    That whatever is developed publically or privately in the US they have to develop a competitor? What about Galileo - the EU's competition to GPS? Yeah that's crashed and burned and it barely got off the ground. Andy why again?

    Well, you probably haven't heard of most of the smaller, less glamorous projects funded by the European Commission. Some excerpts from descriptions of websites I've built for a couple of 'em, all in a particular subsection of industry:

    "Innovative Integrated Energy Efficiency Solutions for Railway Rolling Stock, Rail Infrastructure and Train Operation."

    "... will concentrate on fixed-formation passenger trains and universal locomotives capable of 200 km/h or more."

    "... aims to integrate a fragmented research landscape, promote the railways' contribution to sustainable development and improve the competitiveness and economic stability of the European rail sector."

    "Providing grounds for the establishment of 15,000 km of new and existing [railway] lines predominantly dedicated to freight."

    "Develop modelling tools to improve the understanding of rail vehicles and passenger dynamics, particularly with respect to crash behaviour."

    As you can see, there's probably about fifty million plus Euros of Commission money right there, quite obviously going into producing blatant knock-offs of American technological innovations.
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    Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
  6. What a complete waste of taxpayer money by Sanity · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Why are European governments taking money from European taxpayers, and giving it to the stodgy big companies of yesteryear, supposedly to promote research in an area that is more than adequately served by the free market?

    This is a ridiculous waste of taxpayer money, and a good demonstration of all that is wrong with beurocratic top-down European Union thinking (and I speak as a European).

    If you really want to promote innovation, then stop wasting taxpayer money on this type of crap and lower corporate taxes, encouraging an environment where the fit will thrive and the unfit will die.

    1. Re:What a complete waste of taxpayer money by Sanity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How does lowering corporate taxes do anything other than making it a little less likely that the unfit will die? (Or at least extending the amount of time they can hold out for)?
      It makes the fit base their companies elsewhere.
  7. Next generation search technology by the_kanzure · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let the user become the crawler- and do not eliminate the search giants (just don't rely on them completely). Already I sort of operate like a (slow) crawler with my queues of links to read, bookmarks (be weary- big load) and indexing those very interesting or important pages, sharing related tidbits, etc. Just feels like the natural extension, though I am sure that many people will want to stick with traditional GUIs and "back/forward" habits. There is also some interesting discussion in ATLAS-L re: future search infrastructures. So, in the spirit of promoting development in this area, linkage:

    * Grub article (now defunct)- was distributed peer-to-peer crawler. (see also)
    * Boitho, another distributed crawler
    * YaCy- another peer-to-peer crawler
    * How to build a web spider
    * C++ web crawler lib
    * LibWWW (perl)
    * W3C's WebBot
    * The Internet Archive's Heritrix crawler
    * WebSPHINX- customizable crawler

    Somehow, this is like an extension of surfraw. I imagine that soon enough we will start up an open source crawler-browsing hybrid software package, though have been surprised that nothing like it has popped up yet- it's (usually) the way of the programmer to make sure that he has the ability to do what the giants are doing. Maybe we have all been collectively blinded by graphical web browsers (IE, Firefox, Opera, etc.) and "click-click-click" thinkware?

  8. knockoffs, and how to compete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course, google didn't come from government subsidies, it came from a few bright guys who made a startup and made it succeed by their hard work and sweat.

    The lesson Europe needs to learn is that the way to compete with the USA is not by trying to copy everything the USA does (google, GPS systems, operating systems, etc etc) but with government funding. The way to beat them is to innovate and make brand new things, made by the people who are passionate about doing something new and will pour their hearts and souls into it. That's why the Intel, Google, and Microsoft started in the USA, and why the European knockoffs all failed. You can't drive it from the top down: you have to let it grow from the bottom up. As soon as Europe learns this, there will be nothing to stop it.

  9. Re:Here come the flames by drooling-dog · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cause we all know Al Gore invented it!! :-) Well, he may not have invented the Internet, but he did champion the funding for it through Congress at a time when few people had even heard of it yet. And, in fact, he's never claimed anything more than that, despite Republican misinformation to the contrary...
  10. It's not waste of tax payers money by Iloinen+Lohikrme · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This project is not waste of money nor is usually the normal R&D funds, benefits and grants given by the EU and member states. The money is intended to lower the risk on venturing into a totally new industry or on a new technology. Basically the idea is to put some public funding to encourage the private money to follow and get the ball running and as the ball keeps on rolling the society gets back it's initial funding via new firms, via new employment, via increased revenues and so on. These activities are very normal to any industrialized nation: Japanese developed their industries together with their government (Ministry of International Trade and Industry); the US is also heavily involved in funding new technology and industries via heavy R&D programs in the military; and the China and Russia all are doing the same thing. Compared to previous examples, the EU and members states fund too little new development, and that's a problem.

    On a note I think that Theseus project will be very interesting and hopefully very rewarding. It's especially interesting as the main firms in it will be SAP and Siemens. SAPs systems are basically running in every major corporation and are responsible for lots of information handling. Siemens too has it's hands on very interesting technology, especially in industrial sectors. If by this project they technologies that allow SAP, Siemens and other vendors to get more information and make their systems more intelligent, the rewards to them and to the society would be quite large.

    On a different note, a good example of how governments can help their booming corporations to succeeds can be found here from Finland. I would say that with out Finnish governments help by starting and guiding research projects, university programs, student intake, granting cheap development loans, reviewing tax laws and etc.. there wouldn't be such a enormous success as Nokia is today. That's just a one example. We need public money also, we do also need private money, but to keep up with the USA, Japan, China and other, we here in the Europe have to use public funding too to make sure European industries and firms will be successful in international competition.

    1. Re:It's not waste of tax payers money by Iloinen+Lohikrme · · Score: 3, Informative

      No it's not. Venture Capital is not for basic research, it's for commercialization of already researched technology. If you don't put money for basic research, if you don't put it to high risk research, then you won't have any new technology that you can commercialize. And as I said, the US, Japanese, Chinese, Russians etc.. are already doing the same thing and thus it would be economical and industrial suicide to not do it.

      As what comes to Europes economic growth and it's businesses, taxation or it's rate are not to be blamed. Yes, in some countries like German the tax laws are a mess, but all in all they are pretty workable. What does instead stifle businesses are work laws, or more on inflexibility in the job market: French and Germany come to a mind quick. If I would start from somewhere, it would changes to free job markets not stifle working government private sector partnership that does bring food on the table

  11. Obligatory speculation by Anc · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the project's website:

    At the current time, 31 research institutions, universities, and companies have joined the THESEUS program with planned projects. The industrial and public research partners are cooperating closely. They are coordinated by empolis GmbH. Also involved are internationally recognized experts of the Fraunhofer Society, the German Research Center for Artificial Intelligence (DFKI), the Research Center for Computer Science (FZI), the Ludwig Maximilian University (LMU) and Technical University (TU) in Munich, the TU Darmstadt, the University of Karlsruhe, the TU Dresden, and the University of Erlangen. The application scenarios are developed from the immediate research results and utilization interests of the leading partners German National Library, empolis, Lycos Europe, SAP, Siemens, as well as the following additional partners involved: Deutsche Thomson oHG, Intelligent Views, m2any, Moresophy, Ontoprise, Verband Deutscher Maschinen- und Anlagenbau e.V. (VDMA), and the Institute of Radio Technology.
    The EU has funded a mostly academic research project but the post made it sound as if the direct goal was to create some kind of a competitor to Google. If this post was written differently, everyone here would be praising the EU for being farsighted and investing in science and research. But without some obligatory, flamboyant speculation it wouldn't look controversial enough to be posted on Slashdot, would it?