Slashdot Mirror
Japanese Auto Makers Teaming Up To Create Standard OS
CNet is reporting that Japanese car manufacturers are teaming up to develop a standard automotive operating system. "Just as computer operating systems [...] allow multiple applications to communicate with one another, an automotive operating system enables different driving systems to work together. The standard automotive operating system from Japan will include everything from fuel injection, brakes and power steering to power windows. Currently, certain mechanical car parts are interchangeable from model to model. Smart car parts that operate off a common software standard would enable that kind of convenience to continue, while allowing them to communicate more easily with other smart components in a car."
According to another Yomiuri article, BMW, DaimlerChrysler and other European automakers are jointly developing a next-generation OS and are expected to complete a prototype in 2008. ...a year earlier.
"The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many of them..."
-ubuntu others as you would have others ubuntu you.
Well to some degree, that's the point. Mercedes has already done testing running cars at 90 MPH just 2 inches apart through a network communication protocol. Part of the goal of this project is to come up with a standard for such a protocol and integrate it into the OS.
Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
I really hope they don't go the "OS for battleships" direction and just take a regular OS and tailor it for cars. An OS that is going to help operate a car should be built using signal logic and work like a low level state machine. Like this: http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/COSA.htm or at least build it around a functional lambda calculus based language like haskell or erlang (see wikipedia). The last thing we need is random segfaults while we're driving.
as an aside-- please don't critize my suggestion without at least first reading up on functional lambda calculus based programming languages and COSA.
You think Americans were "good" Germans have the standardization of things down pat.
It's why HPA motorports was able to create a 500 Hp Beetle using nothing more than common VW Parts.
With minor work for engine bay space and engine mounts, you can bolt up a brand new Audi TT engine to a '79 Rabbit. I can't even begin to name all the parts that are common between my '98 Jetta and my '86 Jetta. Heck, 10 minutes with the engine blocks and you'll start to see similarities between the 1.8L Gasser and my 1.9 TDI.
Furthermore, every single part in my VW has a part number. Every one. I'm doing some custom wiring for rear fogs, even a wire has a VW part number. I walked into the dealer and told him I wanted XXX-YYY-ZZZZ and he told me it'd be a few days and $3. If anyone gets a chance to look in ETKA, there is an option to "see what all vehicles this part number fits". It's absolutely mind boggling.
This happened in Phoenix, Arizona.
Many years ago, when I was in college and poor, I bought a truly beat to death VW Baja for $800. It had tiny little wheels for drag racing for some odd reason, and great big sand wheels up front. The front end and the back end were fiberglass, with all the sheet metal cut off roughly with a torch; the front bumper was, I kid you not, the GAS TANK. I had to buy some new seat belts out of a wrecked beetle to bolt in because the originals had been cut out. The car sounded like a helicopter, you could barely hear yourself think. It had a souped-up 1800cc engine that was the greasiest, ugliest thing I'd ever seen in my life.
I really liked that car. It was fast as hell and totally terrifying to drive.
One time, my ex girlfriend tried to make fun of my car by flying past it in her mustang (over Camelback Mountain). I let her get just past me and I stomped on the gas; I flew past her and got the thing up over 100 mph before making the crest of the mountain (this was on the upward side, mind you).
Even better, one time I was sitting at a stoplight and this creepy ASU kid and his girlfriend were making fun of my car from their convertible. I looked over at them, and when the light turned green, stomped the accelerator and popped the clutch. The damn thing popped a wheelie and I almost had a heart attack. But it was worth it, the kid was so surprised he forgot to go and got cut off by traffic.
Still... I ended up selling it for the same 800 bucks to another college kid. He took it out in the desert, floored it, shot off the top of a sand dune, and obliterated the car. Amazingly, the kid survived and called me up to ask for his 800 bucks back! I said "what are you, nuts? Consider it a stupidity tax" and hung up.
Sigh... Poor car...
That's not unique to VW. Practically every automaker today has a part number for every last component in their cars. Among other things I can find out which components are shared with previous generations of my Honda, other Honda models and even Japanese domestic models by looking at part numbers. The same applies to my father's Buick.
Secondly, an Audi TT engine isn't just going to "bolt" into a 1979 Rabbit. Today's Rabbit follows a very similar layout to a '79 Rabbit and a TT is essentially a Golf/Rabbit with different body panels. I'll grant you that, but internally the cars are quite different. Nevermind that the chassis has been revised numerous times to meet exceedingly strict safety standards. There are changing emissions regulations which have necessitated the addition of various components and movement of others. Then there's the modernization of a multitude of other components, like the braking system and it's anti-lock brakes. Then there's the ECU and all the electrical wiring the old Rabbit didn't have. And then on the simplest level there's the fact that the '79 engine block and transmission are considerably different from what's used today.
I know some guys tend to stretch the meaning of "bolt-on" modifications but this is really pushing it. There are guys who do engine swaps between cars based on the same platform and for the same year and even then they can't just drop in the new engine. If any automakers allow for easy swapping of components I'd argue it's the Americans. And that's only because they have the habit of releasing the same exact vehicle under multiple brands with minor cosmetic differences.
I expect to see a similar outcome from a "standardized" OS. The system may be based on a standard base, but every model and generation will be different to the point that they won't work with anyone else. There's the risk, of course, of this sort of technology locking out the owner from being able to do anything to the car. With a sophisticated system it could check to see if modifications have been made, for example, and perhaps render the vehicle inoperable because it's been deemed a violation of the warranty. On the other hand, these systems may make the car easier to hack and allow the owner more control in adjusting how the car operates.
It's fascinating that you start out raving how 'common' things are, but when you get down to cases... engine mounts need 'minor' work and engine blocks have 'similarities'. Niether of which are characteristics of systems with any significant degree of commonality. Even your the link you provide to a 500HP Beetle with 'standard' parts discusses the amount of work the conversions require.
Which is nothing at all like the situation the OP discusses. (Though he does overstate the case a little.)
By law, they have to support OBD2 diagnostics; this spec provides a limited number of diagnostic indicators that (theoretically) can be accessed and interpreted the same on all vehicles. The OBD2 spec is even available - not officially, but Google is your friend.
So far so good - some standardization, albeit government enforced. But there's more; there's a lot more useful diagnostic information available from the vehicle systems than OBD2 shows. So the manufacturers extend the protocol and define other trouble codes and ways of accessing them. These extensions aren't documented, and they're often designed to be as obscure and impenetrable as possible. Every manufacturer has different proprietary extensions and they change them at whim.
The dealership service departments have the dedicated computer that talks to that manufacturer's cars; it knows all the codes. But independent service shops don't have those dedicated machines or any information about how to read the extended codes from a vehicle. The manufacturers refuse to provide any information to anyone at any price; you can't even buy the diagnostic machine from them unless you're one of their dealers.
They've been doing this for years; various lawsuits have come and gone but the manufacturers still won't share the information that mechanics need to service their cars effectively. The manufacturers like it this way; it drives more business to the dealership service departments and prevents third-party parts companies from making less-expensive replacement parts. This is the status quo; even the Japanese manufacturers play the same game.
So let's consider the possibility of a standardized automotive operating system or architecture. Would the manufacturers use it? If it offered greater reliability or reduced build costs they'd go for it. But before it hit the dealers they'd "fix" it so that their parts and service divisions would continue to enjoy their competitive advantages...
For those of us that happen to be happy with the stereo that came with the car, the upside is no more having to take the thing apart and hide it every time you leave the car somewhere and no more smashed windows and some wires hanging out of your dash when you come back to it...
I, for one, welcome our new fully integrated un-steal-able car stereo overlords!
Native Japanese speakers have no problems with "L" sounds, particularly a leading li sound as in Linux since it's nearly the same sound as one of letters of the Japanese alphabet. Even when an "L" is within a word such as "flight," it becomes fu-la-i-to. R becomes an L for most Japanese speakers, not the other way around (so "right" would sound a little like "light). English speakers and actors with fake Japanese accents change the L to R, which is why my name is spelled as Akira in English, not Akila (which would still be mispronounced, but it's bit closer). Japanese speakers tend to mangle English words, but not in the way that you typically hear in the movies.
So, I'm sorry, but your desire to tweak your car comes a very distant second to my desire to have safer air.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)