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Open Standards Initiative Fails in Massachusetts

walterbyrd writes "Massachusetts has decided to use Microsoft's Open-XML standard. This decison: 'stands in sharp contrast to the positions taken by predecessor CIOs Peter Quinn and Louis Gutierrez, backed by then governor (and now-presidential hopeful) Mitt Romney. Both Quinn and Gutierrez insisted on including only "open standards" in the ETRM, and withstood significant pressure from Microsoft to give ground and accept OOXML...'"

19 of 236 comments (clear)

  1. Well, it took time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I guess the good news is how long it took Microsoft to kill it. They are not as good as they used to be with the FUD.

    1. Re:Well, it took time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All I can hope for is that in {enter date of choice here} years time that all the docs in MA that were arcdhived in OOXML format become unreadable and totally useless as OOXML V25 (or whatver) drops support for V1.
      Meanwhile those that were archived with other open (as well as properly documented) formats are still available to the masses.

      Any organisation going for OOXML are just asking to get stuffed in the future. Microsoft could enforce DRM and other nasties on the users and then start charging for every access to the document even though the content might be your copyright, they hold the strings over the format.
      Just like the Monks in the Middle Ages did paper books. Knowelege is POWER. Control of the access to the Knowelege is ABSOLUTE POWER

      Just my warped $0.02 worth on this dark day.

    2. Re:Well, it took time... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

      MSFT never used FUD alone in these, they always used some type of bribe. Bribes like reduced cost for a site license and other tactics that convince the key people that they need to re evaluate their position.

      I have seen it locally, Microsoft "donated" a site license to their entire suite of software including the Visual studio products to my daughters school to squash the linux+Open Office conversion. They eliminated the cost savings that the board was able to understand the most. and that was it. Project killed completely, not even a handful of linux boxes were allowed in the lab per an agreement.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Well, it took time... by dup_account · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ummmm, you obviously are over simplifying the issue. Mass needs to make these documents available to more than one person, potentially sending them out to outside people and organizations. Does this mean that M$ will be giving them open licenses so they can send the appropriate version of Office out along with the documents?

      The point of using standards is so that whatever software is being used in 10-20 years should still be able to read the documents from today. Yes standards will evolve, but the really good ones still find (and were designed originally) a way to maintain compatibility.

      It is kind of pathetic that you feel its acceptable to keep old copies of all that software? Please tell me you are also keeping machines/windows versions around that will still run the software. I would chuckle when you found out that Vista no longer runs Office 3.0 that you have so carefully kept (but not windows 95).

  2. Just goes to show... by StringBlade · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...that undoubtedly business and politics are tangled together in a bed of money.

    Does this really come as a surprise that a change in regime would change the direction of a major initiative? I think we've seen this many times before, not the least of which being the Microsoft antitrust trial. When the old boss moves out, the new boss moves in, waves his hands, and changes the playing field yet again.

    *sigh*

    --
    ...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
    1. Re:Just goes to show... by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ya gotta love government corruption! The bottom line here, folks, is that we're getting a view of exactly how ugly politics and business are here in the United States. Because the tech journals have been covering this topic under a microscope, we see what the true stripes of government look like, from our own geek perspectives.

      If you think it's just Microsoft, you're sadly mistaken. Most big corporations participate in this sort of shenanigans, and it plays into every law that gets passed and every candidate that gets elected.

      Not to worry too much, though. The revolution will come soon enough. (No, it won't be me starting it, nor do I know who it will be, so back off Carnivore/Echelon/whatever)

    2. Re:Just goes to show... by donaldm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't think we can call this "government corruption" although we may like to believe it because this is a very serious charge and if proven and a conviction is made then someone is looking at a serious fine or jail time. Like it or not Microsoft or any viable company has to work within the constraints of the countries laws, however a powerful company also has a "group" of lawyers on retainer who will have insight into that countries laws and can use this knowledge to benefit that company without actually breaking the law.

      It may surprise many but many high level managers actually like and respect Microsoft and actually think they are doing the right thing to recommend Microsoft products. Most managers rarely look at the moral aspect of a company although in a twist many managers think that their company must be "a paragon of virtue" and employees are encouraged (well maybe told) to take "Standards of Business Conduct" courses within the organisation. I am quite sure that Microsoft insists their employees do this as well but when it comes to sales then as long as the law is not actually broken then to them this is "normal business practice" and "morals and integrity" fly out the window.

      I would hazard a guess that while Microsoft is worried about the adoption of Open Source around the world it would be pulling out all stops without actually breaking the law to prevent any US state or council from taking up Open Source. So it is not surprising to me that Massachusetts now has the "right" people pushing for a Microsoft "proprietry" Standard under the guise of being open. After all the people pushing for this may genuinely believe (cough!) they are doing the right thing.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
  3. Wait..So Sitting Around Posting On Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    is no substitute for actually getting up off your fat ass and voting and making your voice heard to the state governments?

  4. Actually... by bomanbot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    if you read TFA it says that they are including both ODF and Open XML as acceptable document formats.

    So while the original intention to only include really open formats is regrettably given up (curiously by an interim CIO, why does he decide that if he is only a temporary hire?), it is not like ODF got dumped for the Microsoft format.

    1. Re:Actually... by visualight · · Score: 5, Insightful

      what?

      By including a non-open format they are locked in to MS products. Not being locked in was the point of the entire endeavor.

      --
      Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
    2. Re:Actually... by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I thought the point was to guarantee access to documents without them being held for ransom by the company that owns the format...

      Yeah, Microsoft has a free reader, but they don't give away the platform you need to run it... Plus you can save documents in a way that is OOXML compliant, but can't be rendered using the information from the spec alone. That means, neither of the reasons that either of us gave are filled by Microsoft's format.

  5. It could all still change... by erroneus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...if it's rejected as an ISO standard, there is plenty of room for rejecting the present acceptance.

    But that said, I am admittedly ignorant of any appeals or reapplication processes that Microsoft would undoubtedly pay... err, uh attempt.

    Nutrasweet was rejected multiple time until the company that makes it put someone into the FDA office that would approve it. ("No, we reject it because it's poison... we reject it because it's poison... oh okay, we no longer 'feel' it's poison...") OOXML was rejected by two or three parties in a position to do so (depending on how you count them) until finally, Microsoft got someone in office that they could bend to their will.

    This is "competition in the market place?!" This is "innovation!?"

    I'd like to hear from Microsoft apologists why they think this is an ethical and acceptable way to do business.

  6. Small consolation and the silver lining ... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ... is that, this scrape has raised the profile and visibility of the importance of document formats and vendor lock. Many people in power are now more aware of these issues.

    How much can MSFT charge for MS-Office? It can price it just a shade under what it would cost you to switch to an alternative. Your switching cost determines the money you need to pay to MSFT. If a company wants to lower the money it pays, it has to lower the switching costs. Slowly ODF will gain acceptance.

    Also the ODF proponents should realize that the total money collected by MSFT is just 40 billion dollars. I say just because, for the amount of money corporate America is spending, it is not much. For most companies their core operation is transportation or retail or selling insurance or whatever. Compared to the health insurance, labour costs, office building maintenance and rent, advertising expenses, the amount they spend on Office software is a pittance. As long as MSFT keeps prices that low, it is difficult for ODF to gain traction.

    The switch will be very very gradual initially. First companies for whom office software costs is a significant portion of their operating expenses. Then slowly it will spread to other companies. We should not expect any quick victories. Then once the alternative formats have gained enough critical mass, and the backward compatibility issues have become less of an issue, there would be quick upsurge for ODF. But still MSFT will have a significant market share in office software for a long time to come.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  7. "FUD" vs. Corruption by CarpetShark · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This can hardly be called FUD. They destroyed at least one man's career in government -- probably two mens'. Who knows what else they did to get this through, and head off a pan-american shift away from MS products.

  8. Report from Switzerland (Meeting of SNV/UK14) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just yesterday I was sitting in the relevant meeting of SNV/UK14 (http://www.snv.ch/), that decides how Switzerland will vote. The chairman (Hans-Rudolf Thomann) explained the following rules:
    - we are here to create standards, not to reject them
    - if we reach consensus (>=75%) to vote for Microsoft, we will vote for Microsoft
    - if we only reach a majority (>=50%) to vote for Microsoft, we will vote for Microsoft
    - if we reach a majority to vote against Microsoft, we will vote for Microsoft
    - if we reach consensus to vote against Microsoft, we will abstain

    The present spin doctors of Microsoft and ECMA managed to convince Mr. Thomann to reject every serious technical and general concern we had regarding OOMXL by pointing to compatibility reasons. At the end we had a majority _against_ Microsoft but which (giving the unfair rules) results in a Swiss vote _for_ Microsoft. Mr. Thomann was fretting and fuming at the end of the meeting how it can be that successful international companies (we had representatives from IBM, Google, ...) vote against the best interest of their customers and theirself!

    Yes, this is how the democratic system at SNV / ISO works. After the meeting I could not eat as much as I wanted to puke...

    Posted as AC for obvious reasons

  9. Not a terrible outcome by MarkWatson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    OK, so they allow the use of either ODF or Open XML - at least simple programs can extract text and style data form both formats. I blogged recently about how I prefer ODF, and included a little Ruby program to process ODF files:

    http://markwatson.com/blog/2007/05/why-odf-is-bett er-than-microsofts.html

    and one of my readers pointed out that by changing a line or two of my code, that Open XML could be processed in the same way - I stand corrected.

    Still, I am a member of the ODF Foundation, and don't like Microsoft's heavy handed actions. I sold all of my Microsoft stock a few years ago specifically because I did not like their proprietary file format lockins. I use both Open Source and proprietary software - I have no problem with people (including myself) buying Microsoft products except for their use of proprietary formats: hurts users and could cause expensive data loss now and in the future.

    If Microsoft perfectly supported ODF in their release of Mac Office next year, I would buy a copy - but slap on plugins don't count here: I would require perfect native support.

  10. Not Quite So Cut And Dry by Arccot · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's sad so many people instantly think "corruption" when the government makes a decision they don't agree with. Isn't it possible Microsoft made a better case for their standard? A decision like this is like a civil court case, the person with the best argument wins.

    Of the top of my head, I can think of a few reasons lawmakers (from their perspective) might want to use Microsoft's standard before any others:

    1. Microsoft is a very large, very well known company. They will be around for a very long time to support any of their formats.

    2. Microsoft creates a lot of jobs.

    3. Most government offices use Microsoft Office on Microsoft Windows for word processing, so Microsoft is the best format to use since the government is already integrated with their products.

    This is probably what the politicians were thinking about, and from that perspective, Microsoft looks like the right choice. Most decisions in government are not bought and sold, they are negotiated based on the better argument.

    1. Re:Not Quite So Cut And Dry by dvice_null · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > 2. Microsoft creates a lot of jobs.

      That is true. Anti-virus companies, marketing people, help desk, lots of system admins. But on the other hand, you can also create a lot of jobs by simply throwing rocks at windows and breaking them. Manufacturing new windows, transporting it and installing it will create a lot of jobs. Yet people seem to think that breaking windows is not a good thing. The reason for this is, that if the people wouldn't have to repair the broken windows, they could do some other work, that might help the society more.

      It is the same with Microsoft products. Sure it will generate a lot of jobs, but the same job could be done with less manpower by using the free alternatives. These resources could then be used for something else.

      In other words: We could use the money now spent on marketing by the Microsoft, into making better software.

      > 3. Most government offices use Microsoft Office on Microsoft Windows for word processing, so Microsoft is the best format to use since the
      > government is already integrated with their products.

      In other words: They are locked in to Microsoft products. And they can keep it that way. Or suffer now and be free in the future.

  11. Re:Home access isn't what matters here by jc42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The important thing is that the information is freely available to the public.

    This is clearly not important to the government of Massachusetts, nor to most other US states.

    This could be an interesting precedent. The important point is that there are government documents that citizens are legally required to understand and obey. In the past, the most "encoding" of such documents was in microfilm, which is just an image that can be viewed or printed with cheap, commodity hardware. Government agencies would generally do this for you, often without even asking.

    But now we're seeing a lot of government agencies move online, with extra charges if you want readable hard copy. For example, there are a number of states that charge less for things like licenses if you renew online. But this decision takes this change a step farther: It holds the prospect that, to read the document that you are legally required to read and obey, you must pay a specific corporation (Microsoft) for the software to read it. Alternatively, you will have to pay the surcharge for hard copy, which already an established practice. Also, without licensed Microsoft software, you may not be able to reply electronically, and again you'll have to pay a surcharge to someone who has such software. The safest would be to take time off from work and visit the government agency to handle whatever is in the document.

    It's basically a surcharge on poor people, of course. To us middle-class and geek types, it's mostly an annoyance, that we have to keep a Windows box on hand and up to date, to prove that we have the legal right to read any OOXML doc that the government tosses our way.

    What I think would be interesting would be not to challenge the use of such proprietary encodings, but rather to ask the courts to make the government refund to us the price of the machine and software we must buy to read such documents.

    Remember that in the US, under current law, unauthorized decoding of protected (via patent or copyright) documents is a $500,000 fine and five years in a federal prison. And Microsoft's XML encodings are being patented. If it were legal for me to decode and read any document that anyone sent me, I wouldn't be worried. Most proprietary formats get cracked soon after they're released. But with the law imposing such a draconian punishment for merely attempting to read a document that a government agency sends me, I'd feel a lot better if they were required to protect me from prosecution for decoding and reading such documents. Probably the cheapest way would be to require that they pay for my Windows box.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.